Conspiracy Theories

The illumination or insight did not automatically result from a better understanding of what happened on 9/11, but this opened the door to a broad range of topics and areas of research I had no idea existed beforehand. It also provided an understanding of false flag operations and wars for profit and empire. It provided a pattern to go back and look at other historical events and see the same pattern. Before my "real" education began, looking at world events was like trying to put a puzzle together upside down (with no picture); afterwards it was like putting the puzzle together with the picture side up and the box to look at. We can go back from the current war in Syria back to the Spanish-American war and see the same pattern repeating:



We don't have to know exactly how 9/11 was accomplished to see how it fits into a much larger pattern of historical events. And we don't have to know exactly how 9/11 was accomplished to learn how the CIA was involved in all sorts of now declassified nefarious operations to overthrow governments and control minds. We don't have to fully understand how it was accomplished to understand how the monetary system and international finance has created debt slaves with an obscenely massive gap between rich and poor.



Yes. Proof of building demolitions, proof of a coverup and wrongdoing by several government agencies, proof that the investigations that did take place contained unjustified assumptions and were of inadequate scope to illuminate the truth about what happened. We have a reasonable suspicion of several known individuals. No ironclad proof about specific individuals involved because there has never been an investigation that considered any option other than that the hijackers and KSM and OBL were entirely responsible - we need these individuals under suspicion put on trial to establish ironclad proof of their involvement or otherwise exonerate them. We also have motives. We have a well established historical pattern and declassified documents to reveal modus operandi.

I don't think I could write a better response than what Hurmantar has already written here in this post, Silence. And I too don't think I could go back to accepting the official version of 9/11 unless every anomaly set out in the Corbett video were explained or shown to be a complete fabrication (e.g., that the author of the book made up facts not stated in/provided by the official narrative).

One does not have to have technical expertise to know that 9/11 did not happen as told/sold. While much of the focus/in-fighting has been on how the Towers fell, there are many other aspects of the official story that simply do not add up -- many of these have been repeatedly mentioned in this thread. I don't know who I could interview directly who'd be able to give me some direct evidence of a false flag op (do you think Cheney would confess? ;)), but I have also looked to other "primary sources" to verify certain allegations made in the 9/11 truth books (e.g, the firefighter testimonies, FBI website, UA flight manifests, seismic reports, old conflicting news stories, etc.).

I agree that many authors have political leanings and agendas -- but that doesn't necessarily mean that their books don't contain truth. So Webster Tarpley might have certain political leanings, but his book on 9/11 is pretty well written, lays out the problems with the official narrative well, and provides a solid history of false flag operations and other related deep state shenanigans. It was only one of several other books on 9/11 that I read to supplement my understanding -- and it's one I'd recommend someone check out if they are only getting their information from internet sites and are willing to dive deeper. I wish you'd deign to read it, if only so we could have a deeper conversation here, but that seems unlikely.
 
It's funny how people think the government would never lie to you or mislead you, when in life your parents lie to you or hide things from You, your friends, your boss.....they all lie and hide things from you. The government would never lie to you though.
 
Continuing the enjoy the dialogue. Thanks for the posts Hurm and Vortex.

Hurm, do you believe there are American government/corporate people who actively ordered the deaths of American citizens (i.e., 9/11) to further their political/socioeconomic agenda? (i.e., actual American citizens ordering the deaths of other (otherwise 'innocent') American citizens)

If so, would you mind sharing your best example with the strongest evidence?

Wouldn't that implicate former American Presidents? (Too many questions come to mind. I'll await your thoughts. :) )

Ted Gunderson, Fmr FBI chief on CIA and FBI terrorist false flags:

Regarding the '93 WTC bombing which killed 6 and injured many more, it was carried out by a group that was infiltrated by an FBI informant that told the FBI about the plan to bomb the WTC. The FBI had a plan to use the informant to supply a fake bomb, but the FBI claims they pulled him off that plan. Why? The informant had his own recordings of later conversations with the FBI where he claimed he made the bomb under FBI supervision. Either way the FBI let it happen or made it happen.

The '95 OKC bombing is another one, though I don't have time to refresh my memory on all the facts there.
 
Happy to have a respectful discussion and I realize there isn't much progress to be made on reconciliation of viewpoints here.

A question to the community: Why do you have conviction in one account over the other? I make a few presumptions in asking this question: I presume you are not a technical expert in the investigative arena (e.g., large scale building construction/engineering/etc in the case of 9/11). I presume you have not done any direct research based on actual evidence of the events; interviews of event participants/witnesses, etc. Generally, it seems, folks are relying on third party authoritarian figures as "research".* Both sides generally offer explanations of events that are often technical. How do you decide to choose the conspiracist's account?

* - Let's take one of the authors you referenced; Webster Tarpley. He has no scientific background nor engineering background as far as I can tell. No forensics nor investigative training. He's opined on several violent world events asserting they are false flags. Without looking into it I would ask how in depth his research is in each case. He also recently agreed to settle a libel suit brought against him by Melania Trump after he asserted she had been a "high end escort". This supposedly included a public apology and a "substantial sum".

Yes, I realize I am running down the road of character assassination. He may very well have done a perfectly scientific job with his book on 9/11. That said the Melania Trump event is a serious red flag for me when it comes to Mr. Tarpley. He's quoted as an outspoken critic of Trump as follows: "Trump, as has been widely noted, does not care about facts or accuracy. He has total contempt for facts and for reality in general, and many of his followers share in this attitude." (Source: http://tarpley.net/trumps-art-of-fa...but-never-attack-wall-street-federal-reserve/)

Yet he asserts Melania Trump was a high end escort on that very same blog only to retract the comment, make a public apology, and supposedly make a "substantial payment" when challenged?

Then there's stuff like this? http://tarpley.net/2007/07/21/cheney-determined-to-strike-in-us-with-wmd-this-summer/

Sorry, while I have no trust of institutions, especially large ones such as governments/corporations, I don't have any sense of trust in this gentleman either. They all reek of agendas of one form or another.

Well, that went on quite a bit further than I'd intended. :)

Again, I appreciate the dialogue and I would state for the record I am not asserting the events of 9/11 (or SH for that matter) went exactly to the official narrative. They both may very well have been uber-scale conspiracies. All I am stating is that I do not find the conspiracy theories (and many of their authority figures) to be compelling enough to breach a "plausibility" threshold for me.


No question about it, making the Melania statement is ridiculous . . . But it has nothing to do with 9/11. I've read many books on 9/11 - almost all of David Ray Griffin's - and several others. Many who read his material find it very difficult to argue with . . . though, there are those who do, of course.

I'm not trying to open up an endless debate, but to simply respond to the "relying on third party authoritarian figures as 'research'" statement, I would say this: one of my favorite books by DRG is 9/11 Contradictions. There are no arguments going on in the book. He simply points to conflicting stories from primary sources that are completely impossible to reconcile with one another and that completely undermine the whole narrative. As far as who those "experts" are, in more than one case, the experts were the FBI: at the trial for the supposed 20th hijacker, the FBI said that only two phone calls actually took place, whereas the initial story had it at around 35. Importantly, they said there was no connected phone call from Barbara Olsen. In case you don't remember it, Barbara Olsen was the wife of Ted Olsen. Ted Olsen was the lawyer who won the (supposedly disputed) 2000 presidency for Bush. Kinda odd, doesn't it seem, that it was Ted Olsen - rather than some random Joe Blow - who first said what was going on and established the entire 9/11 narrative: that the planes had been hijacked by Muslims. No one knew before he said so, and he found out because his wife was on a hijacked plane and called him. He said initially that Barbara called from a cell phone, then, one might be inclined to take it, because they realized that the phones didn't work from that altitude, changed it to a somewhat elaborated story about her calling the Justice department collect. Sure, I know what someone would say here: it was a tragic occurrence personally and as a nation: wouldn't we expect a big of bungling? Sure, I'd say. Except that the FBI later said the calls lasted zero seconds. The weren't connected; they didn't talk at all.

So my (somewhat rhetorical) questions to you then would be: which of these mainstream, official accounts do you believe? It's a pretty big deal if you say the FBI, because suddenly everything is radically shifted . . . And that would lead to yet another question: why didn't anything air on mainstream TV about such a revelation?

The FBI also said that there was no hard evidence that Osama Bin Laden was connected in anyway to 9/11, and that's why he wasn't listed on their top ten most wanted people for 9/11. Which mainstream account do you believe? Bush admin or FBI? And why didn't our journalists at least lightly probe such a thing? Might that not be a bit of a scoop, as they say?

What about the hijackers (about half) who showed up alive all over the world? What about the hijackers' names not being on the flight manifests? You asked Hurmanetar if he could consider being wrong about the conspiracy and that the official one about hijackers and such is right, as you consider the fact that you might be wrong. My answer would be, in the general sense, of course . . . except that the examples like those above are so numerous and insane that one realizes there's literally no official story to come back to.

I think your point about Tarpley is definitely a great one (though I would still probably agree with Tarpley concerning 9/11), and it's nice to hear that you're open minded enough to consider that you might be wrong . . . But I was like you and would've at one point thought it silly people using the term "research," because of what I viewed that being. But, anyway, I don't anymore.

If your curiosity was ever piqued on the subject and you found that you did want to read something about it, I'd certainly not suggest starting with google and such, but rather with 9/11 Contradictions by DRG.

. . . On a different note that came up earlier - I think by you: I came to Skeptiko initially because of psi. I still love the subject, but I see most of it as Tricksterish . . . and that makes it hard for me to say much about it any of it . . . And that leads me to say that one of the best books on psi that I've ever read is also, oddly, by David Ray Griffin:

https://www.amazon.com/Parapsycholo...onstructive/dp/0791433161/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
 
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A couple thoughts:

- I'm not an adherent to any official story as it relates to 9/11 or any of these events. I should have clarified this much earlier. What I struggle with are a couple of things: 1) the sheer magnitude of complicit behavior required to pull something off like this and 2) the notion that Government agents would order innocent American citizen deaths/harm to further an agenda. Again, neither of these "points of struggle" are insurmountable but seem unlikely to me.

Now, Hurm's reference to Operation Northwoods has been quite interesting to me. Surprising to me is that I had never heard of this prior to Hurm's reference. (Yes, I realize the ironic aspect to that. ;) ) Does anyone know what, if any, actions were taken by any branch of the U.S. Government once this came to light in 2001/2? It is a very weighty piece of evidence to refute my second "point of struggle". Shocking quite frankly.

- Reece, appreciate your post very much. As I tried to clarify above, I'm not asserting any particular official story is the truth. Again, its more my disbelief that a sitting American president (buck stops here and all) along with the massive number of staff, etc would order the deaths of 5k American citizens to further a political agenda. Setting aside that level of evil for a second, what about the myriad of folks required to execute such an event. Perhaps one had a loved one who worked in lower Manhattan? Did they leave them to die? If not, what would they tell that loved one? How would what they say stop there? Etc, etc. Could be I'm just a Pollyanna. Who knows?

Oh, and I would clarify the reason I came to Skeptiko: Refutation of Scientific Materialism. (Which makes me a conspiracist in some circles. ;) )
 
A couple thoughts:

- I'm not an adherent to any official story as it relates to 9/11 or any of these events. I should have clarified this much earlier. What I struggle with are a couple of things: 1) the sheer magnitude of complicit behavior required to pull something off like this and 2) the notion that Government agents would order innocent American citizen deaths/harm to further an agenda. Again, neither of these "points of struggle" are insurmountable but seem unlikely to me.

Now, Hurm's reference to Operation Northwoods has been quite interesting to me. Surprising to me is that I had never heard of this prior to Hurm's reference. (Yes, I realize the ironic aspect to that. ;) ) Does anyone know what, if any, actions were taken by any branch of the U.S. Government once this came to light in 2001/2? It is a very weighty piece of evidence to refute my second "point of struggle". Shocking quite frankly.

- Reece, appreciate your post very much. As I tried to clarify above, I'm not asserting any particular official story is the truth. Again, its more my disbelief that a sitting American president (buck stops here and all) along with the massive number of staff, etc would order the deaths of 5k American citizens to further a political agenda. Setting aside that level of evil for a second, what about the myriad of folks required to execute such an event. Perhaps one had a loved one who worked in lower Manhattan? Did they leave them to die? If not, what would they tell that loved one? How would what they say stop there? Etc, etc. Could be I'm just a Pollyanna. Who knows?

Oh, and I would clarify the reason I came to Skeptiko: Refutation of Scientific Materialism. (Which makes me a conspiracist in some circles. ;) )

Operation Northwoods is certainly an eye opener.

Don't have much time, but some more interesting reading:

http://journals.gmu.edu/NandC/article/download/601/1170
Provocation is one of the most basic, but confounding, aspects of warfare. Despite its sometimes obvious use, it has succeeded consistently against audiences around the world, for millennia, to compel war. A well-constructed provocation narrative mutes even the most vocal opposition.

***

The culmination of a strategic provocation operation invariably reflects a narrative of victimhood: we are the
victims of the enemy’s unforgivable atrocities.

***

In the case of strategic provocation the deaths of an aggressor’s own personnel are a core tactic of the provocation.

***

The persistent use of strategic provocation over centuries – and its apparent importance to war planners – begs the question of its likely use by the US and other states in the near term.

https://wikileaks.org/wiki/US_Speci...ocedures_for_Special_Forces,_FM_31.20-3,_2003
US Army Field Manual FM 31-20-3, Foreign Internal Defense Tactics Techniques and Procedures for Special Forces; 2004 edition. Made US Army doctrine (policy) on 20 September 1994; 219 printed pages. Written at the sensitive but unclassified level.

This sensitive US military counterinsurgency manual could be critically described as "What we learned about running death squads and propping up corrupt government in Latin America and how to apply it to other places". Its contents are both history defining for Latin America and, given the continued role of US Special Forces in the suppression of insurgencies and guerilla movements world wide, history making.
The document, which is official US Special Forces policy, directly advocates training paramilitaries, pervasive surveillance, censorship, press control, restrictions on labor unions & political parties, suspending habeas corpus, warrantless searches, detainment without charge, bribery, employing terrorists, false flag operations, concealing human rights abuses from journalists, and extensive use of "psychological operations" (propaganda) to make these and other "population & resource control" measures palatable.
 
A couple thoughts:

- I'm not an adherent to any official story as it relates to 9/11 or any of these events. I should have clarified this much earlier. What I struggle with are a couple of things: 1) the sheer magnitude of complicit behavior required to pull something off like this and 2) the notion that Government agents would order innocent American citizen deaths/harm to further an agenda. Again, neither of these "points of struggle" are insurmountable but seem unlikely to me.

When I wrote about my feeling that those of us who have accepted that 9/11 was a false flag op have undergone a "growth in consciousness" it's because I feel like we have all now gone through the five stages of grief on this (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance), and finally come out on the other side. It is not easy to change long-held beliefs about the way the world works. I fought it every step of the way and had the same thoughts about (1) the magnitude of complicity required and (2) the disbelief that "our" government leaders/agents would kill innocent "Americans" (like we're so special....). But the more I read and educated myself on the history of false flags and deep state operations, the more these final incredulity hurdles were overcome. There are some good articles that specifically speak to these two final psychological hurdles out there.

The "growth in consciousness" also referred to what Hurmantar wrote above too -- how 9/11 was just the tip of the iceberg that leads to questioning and exploring other things and opens your mind to wanting to understand how the world really works. It really does feel like the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit together in a way they didn't before. And one of the reasons I'd like to get past the "mundane" level of the 9/11 false flag operation is because I'm interested in moving to the more esoteric/metaphysical questions about it.
 
. . . On a different note that came up earlier - I think by you: I came to Skeptiko initially because of psi. I still love the subject, but I see most of it as Tricksterish . . . and that makes it hard for me to say much about it any of it . . . And that leads me to say that one of the best books on psi that I've ever read is also, oddly, by David Ray Griffin:

https://www.amazon.com/Parapsycholo...onstructive/dp/0791433161/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8

That's interesting... I only read DRG's 9/11 stuff a long time ago. Didn't know about his Psi/Consciousness/philosophy books. I'll have to check them out!
 
"Facism allowed John Amery to convince himself that perhaps the causes of his unhappiness and insecurity might be located outside himself - in the actions of the wicked Jews, the exploitative capitalists and the sclerotic governments. It expanded his world - providing a home for his inchoate sense of rage and resentment, his narcissist's desire to be acclaimed - at the same time as it shrank it by prescribing the narrow and rigid doctrines of anti-Semitism and authoritarianism."
-'Traitors' by Josh Ireland
 

This article contains deceptive falsehoods. It states:
all these stories occurred very soon after 9/11. Once the FBI released their official list of hijackers, complete with photographs (on the 27th September), these stories disappeared. This suggests to us they were only ever a mixup over names, and once the photos appeared as well these individuals realised they weren’t wanted men after all.

This led me to believe the "official list" released on 9/27 contained corrections and clarifications and for the first time, pictures, whereas the previously released info only contained names. But the two lists from 9/14 and 9/27 are the same (I just compared every name.)

The FBI initially released personal details, birth dates, and pictures and that is what led all these alleged hijackers to come forward and state their innocence and outrage.

From the 9/23 Telegraph article:
Photgraphs and personal details were published around the world...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Revealed-the-men-with-stolen-identities.html

And this BBC article from 9/23 shows another released picture. It is from the FBI and still can be seen on the FBI's website linked to the 9/27 press release.

From the 9/23 BBC article:
His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world. Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco...He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring. But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

So no, the FBI didn't simply clear it all up on 9/27 by adding pics and more details.

911Myths speculates about a possible answer to the questions around Waleed Al-Shehri here:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php?title=Waleed_al-Shehri_still_alive?

Just to clarify my position here: I do think there were Saudi operatives involved in 9/11. Whether they were hijackers or not, I don't know. It is possible to remotely control the aircraft, so I'm not sure why hijackers would be needed if it were an inside job other than as a cover story. But if everything happened simply as we were told, why so much confusion about the identity of the hijackers? There would be the flight manifests of all flights, there might be ticket stubs or receipts, security camera footage of them going through airport security and boarding the planes, etc.
 
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"Facism allowed John Amery to convince himself that perhaps the causes of his unhappiness and insecurity might be located outside himself - in the actions of the wicked Jews, the exploitative capitalists and the sclerotic governments. It expanded his world - providing a home for his inchoate sense of rage and resentment, his narcissist's desire to be acclaimed - at the same time as it shrank it by prescribing the narrow and rigid doctrines of anti-Semitism and authoritarianism."
-'Traitors' by Josh Ireland

Sciborg, have you read this brilliant article? It must a mandatory reading for any modern "liberal".

And your psychologisation attempts do not work, BTW. The basic skill of any radical is rejection of claims to describe his rage against the system as his own fault. For such staunch critic of psychiatry as me, such rhetoric is entirely futile. There are countless times when the cause of our woes is in fact external; sometimes it is the genuine injustices of the modern social system and real misdeeds of the people on its top.

I should also add that objective claims cannot be refuted by subjective dismissals; the latter are simply irrelevant for the former. To reject 9/11 Truth claims, you should present a evidential and coherent rebuttal to their statements, not an insulting pathologisation of their personalities.
 
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Sciborg, have you read this brilliant article? It must a mandatory reading for any modern "liberal".

And your psychologisation attempts do not work, BTW. The basic skill of any radical is rejection of claims to describe his rage against the system as his own fault. For such staunch critic of psychiatry as me, such rhetoric is entirely futile. There are countless times when the cause of our woes is in fact external; sometimes it is the genuine injustices of the modern social system and real misdeeds of the people on its top.

I should also add that objective claims cannot be refuted by subjective dismissals; the latter are simply irrelevant for the former. To reject 9/11 Truth claims, you should present a evidential and coherent rebuttal to their statements, not an insulting pathologisation of their personalities.

Eh, I think if you look at my posts "liberal" is hardly a description that fits, neither does "conservative". As for being smug, it seems to me this type of ad hominem often arises when the conspiracy theorist is challenged. The challenger is unwilling to see The Truth, cannot handle The Truth, and other psychological defects. I don't doubt this is the case for some issues though it seems to me one can just as easily make the claim against the conspiracy theorist.

If you look at the Donald Trump thread, I posted "conservatives" who promote a Russian/Trump collusion charge and "liberals" who promote the idea that this particular conspiracy theory is a farce. There's a reason I do that, it's so we can ideally get past at least some of the expected bias.

And that quote doesn't say anything about 9/11, I was thinking of a variety of conspiracy claims regarding the Jews, Marxists, Atheists making Luciferian pacts, Holocaust Denial, etc. Perhaps some conspiracy theories are true, and I've said as much, but I've tried digging into a few of these and the proof is always weaker.

As for objective claims and subjective dismissals, how many debates on this forum come down conspiracy theories "just making sense", a way to connect disparate dots with a varnish of misanthropy? @Alex is probably to blame for the increasingly low threshold of proof needed to claim one is following the data given the downturn this show has taken - so long as one can villianize those Alex sees as claiming he's going to Oblivion or Hell the door seems quite open to every pseudo-scholar.
 
Eh, I think if you look at my posts "liberal" is hardly a description that fits, neither does "conservative". As for being smug, it seems to me this type of ad hominem often arises when the conspiracy theorist is challenged. The challenger is unwilling to see The Truth, cannot handle The Truth, and other psychological defects. I don't doubt this is the case for some issues though it seems to me one can just as easily make the claim against the conspiracy theorist.

If you look at the Donald Trump thread, I posted "conservatives" who promote a Russian/Trump collusion charge and "liberals" who promote the idea that this particular conspiracy theory is a farce. There's a reason I do that, it's so we can ideally get past at least some of the expected bias.

And that quote doesn't say anything about 9/11, I was thinking of a variety of conspiracy claims regarding the Jews, Marxists, Atheists making Luciferian pacts, Holocaust Denial, etc. Perhaps some conspiracy theories are true, and I've said as much, but I've tried digging into a few of these and the proof is always weaker.

As for objective claims and subjective dismissals, how many debates on this forum come down conspiracy theories "just making sense", a way to connect disparate dots with a varnish of misanthropy? @Alex is probably to blame for the increasingly low threshold of proof needed to claim one is following the data given the downturn this show has taken - so long as one can villianize those Alex sees as claiming he's going to Oblivion or Hell the door seems quite open to every pseudo-scholar.

Well, I never said you are a "liberal" in the sense which is common for the USA - that is, "moderate Left". I assume you're a centrist (which would be close to the meaning of the word "liberal" in Russia). Am I correct?
 
Well, I never said you are a "liberal" in the sense which is common for the USA - that is, "moderate Left". I assume you're a centrist (which would be close to the meaning of the word "liberal" in Russia). Am I correct?

Not familiar with the Russian context enough to say one way or another. I find myself something of a contextualist guided by some objective moral principles, by which I mean I'm willing to look at circumstances of history and current needs while not falling into pure expedience...it's probably irrelevant for the conversation though. :)
 
Is it possible the proof gets weaker because of so much disinformation on the internet?
 
Sciborg, have you read this brilliant article? It must a mandatory reading for any modern "liberal";.

I think there's an obvious parallel between "skeptic" smug dismissal of Psi and smug dismissal of conspiracy theories, but I think assuming a binary rather than a spectrum on this paints an inaccurate picture. For example this concept of knowing - to whom does this apply, the conspiracy theorist or the doubter?

It seems one can just as easily recast the parts, so that the conspiracy theorist is like the religious fundamentalist who only needs a few disparate data points - "something something Intelligent Design something something Aquinas" - to buttress more than the evidence/logic suggests.

Beyond that the paranormal has, AFAICTell, two classes of criticism - that paranormal phenomenon are impossible and that the data is terrible. The first, I think any regular on this forum would have to concede, can be asserted but cannot be seen as a reasonable conclusion given the questions that remain about two fundamental components of paranormal phenomenon - Consciousness & Causality.

The data can be disputed, but these claims [that it can be outright dismissed] seem exceedingly shrill when the same people who make them ignore all the corporate ties to GMOs and worse yet managed to gloss over if not outright miss/dismiss the issues affecting the other fields in the Sciences. Regardless, however, the data exists and continues to be collected. There's at least an attempt to impose some kind of structure on the study of the paranormal whether that's lab testing or the work in collecting, and to an extent verifying, the aspects of the paranormal not conducive to the lab.

I believe it was Johannes who posted the spectrum of proponent to skeptic, with the extremes of either side being to willing to swallow/dismiss a variety of claims regarding the nature of reality. I would say we would need a similar spectrum with an evaluation of which conspiracy theories are merely misanthropy as per the Traitors quote above and which have some legitimate claims that might warrant further investigation.

I doubt it will happen but Skeptiko could have some conspiracy theory skeptics invited on the show along with a few more people who also don't think Jesus is a myth invented by the Romans...

Is it possible the proof gets weaker because of so much disinformation on the internet?

Then how does one sort out the truth from what people want to conveniently believe?

A good way to see what might be plausible is to investigate the spectrum between outright believer and outright skeptic. Ideally someone in academia is willing to hear the case of a conspiracy theory if the evidence is there, given we see some willing to go out on a limb for aspects of the paranormal.
 
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Then how does one sort out the truth from what people want to conveniently believe?

A good way to see what might be plausible is to investigate the spectrum between outright believer and outright skeptic. Ideally someone in academia is willing to hear the case of a conspiracy theory if the evidence is there, given we see some willing to go out on a limb for aspects of the paranormal

Discernment, cross-checking and INTUITION. Make sure you have a reliable source, not all sources are 100 percent accurate, but that's where the work you do comes in.
The "paranormal" for me is well a label, I've had PSI, Pre-cog and seen TK.....
 
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