Eric Newhill
New
Why does the title feel the need to take a slap at progressives? That was hardly the main focus of the discussion. Try being inclusive rather than exclusive. I know the conservative way is to band together around hating the same things, but give me a break. Liberals may be easily mislead and their compassion co-opted, but so is everybody these days - at least what liberal hearts want ultimately is fairness for all (including for conservatives) and a system that doesn't appeal and promote the worst in our natures. What monstrous villains! Buuuurrrrrrn them!
Ask yourself, is it having money that you like or is it that you have money when everyone else does not? That you are somewhat elite? What if you had the same spending/decision-making power you have now, but so does everyone else. Would that bother you? People who drive a lambo don't just want the car, they want the exclusivity of that car - it would have far less value if everyone else got one too. So truly a rich person's motive is to keep others down so they retain their exclusivity. And this is spiritual?
Ugh, I'm a long-time Skeptiko promoter often pushing these interviews and sharing links, but I've been on and off lately and I feel like I need to retract some of my endorsement. You want to add more data into the conversation and promote larger thoughts? Great, I'm in. You want to use your platform to tear things down? Eh, I'm not into that. Especially when you've shown yourself how you got Trump wrong; don't you think it's entirely possible that in the monopoly game of life we can't all be rich dad? They only let so many rich dads into the game and you're certainly speaking from a place of privilege having gotten there. Yes you worked at it, but your life circumstances allowed you to get there, your level of diction, your upbringing, your connections, your religion, your drive, your family, your inheritance, your color, your neighborhood -- so much is at play there that you can't possibly think we all had the same starting hand and you just happened to play your cards real good? Even if that was the case, there's not enough to go around when we allow inequality to run rampant the way it is. We can't all be rich dads and not all of us want that anyway. Most of us just want to get rid of unnecessary suffering, instability, and fear and our system keeps serving all of those in big heaping tablespoons. You really think God likes the American system? You think all these homeless people, all these shootings, the Flint water crisis, the environmental destruction to the relentless selfish maw of capitalism -- you think this might be a clue from the universe that something is wrong?
https://planetsave.com/2013/12/23/a...eling-wealthy-changes-our-behavior-ted-video/
http://planetsave.com/2013/10/12/ho...unctioning-and-promotes-risky-decison-making/
Neo-liberals are no more liberals than Nazi Socialist Party members are socialists. Please don't lump us together. The word liberal has been co-opted just like Trump co-opted the conservative party. Just like calling a bill a clean air act when it increases pollution. Or yes, co-opting feminism to promote Israel. You think liberals are the only ones who have been tricked through narrative? It's happening everywhere to everyone as we weaponize politics and opinion.
I've met progressive atheists that are FAR more spiritual than the most godly conservative - how can I say that? Because the conservative is selfishly motivated, "god loves ME, MY relationship with god, *I* am special... f*** everyone else, you just need to manifest harder" whereas even the atheist progressive is supporting God's creation, which is mankind. If god was subjective which do you think he'd find more godly? The guy basically worshipping himself using god as his lens or the guy who has no spiritual angle at all, but is dedicated to helping other people and making their lives better?
Our system is risky, wasteful, distributes wealth unfairly, promotes lying, deception, and exploitation, isn't comforting and supportive like a decent family is, it allows for entirely too much instability (like a roulette table we're always knocking all the chips off the table and starting over), and it has gotten us to the same inequality point where most major civilizations in the past have fallen apart at this stage. Capitalism is reckless, it is short-sighted, it subverts democracy (because corporations are hierarchical/fascist, not democratic), it promotes fear and desperation, and it is blind as hell because you never know what's coming down the pike (which also makes it easier to manipulate.)
You think all this child trafficking pedo stuff could happen in a society where women made their own money and weren't forced to sell themselves to survive or raise a child? I swear sometimes capitalism was invented so ugly rich a-holes can still get laid.
There are other ways to be. More spiritual ways to be. If you turn a blind ear to the song of progressives/socialists you're doing exactly what progressives have done when they throw the spiritual baby out with the religion bath water and don't hear what's actually useful there. God doesn't play dice with the universe and I very seriously doubt he/she would be encouraging us to play dice with our lives and economic futures. It's ridiculous. You really shouldn't be telling other people to grow up.
Kindagamey,
Lot of prejudice and generalizing there. I am a fiscal conservative because I think that it works best in real world application and I've seen what fiscal liberalism leads to. The incentives are all screwed up. It has nothing to do with lording power over others. I work hard, as I have my entire life, and I make good money. When people I knew were slacking, partying, what have you in our young adult days, I was applying myself, sacrificing for the future, etc. I don't see a rigged game. I see opportunity everywhere and I see a system that generally takes care of its most vulnerable. I see even relatively poor people living much better than most of the population of the world and way better than even the wealthiest did a few hundred years ago, I see progress everywhere.
Definitions are problem here. As are causes. Does a moral society make people dependent and reward slacking? Does it punish those who work hard? Or does it give people the skills and opportunity to make something of themselves?
I know Christian conservatives that are as you say and I know many that donate most generously to worthy charities like children's hospitals, orphanages, scholarship programs, etc and who are really fine people. I know liberals that are also nice enough and I know some who are degenerate slackers and whiners.