David Icke, Love Not Fear is The Answer |460|

[Alex]

I think the most extreme position here might be to argue that because the coronaviruses don't seem to have been properly isolated, they may not be properly characterised. That in turn means that the DNA probe in those tests (the test convert RNA back into DNA as its first step) might simply correspond to some human RNA which is expressed infrequently (e.g. in certain kinds of sickness?).

Just to keep others here clued in - when a cell 'decides' to use a gene, it first copies this into RNA, and the RNA is used as a template to make the corresponding protein (somewhat simplified description), but the point is that whereas every cell in the body contains a full set of DNA, the RNA you find in a sample will reflect what genes were in use (if it is of human origin) or what the virus is made of (if it is of viral origin).

It would be interesting if DMitch could shoot this down - I know I am speculating wildly outside my competence area, but these speculations come primarily from information I have picked up on blogs that are lead by doctors and researchers.

David

Dr. Mary's Monkey: How the Unsolved Murder of a Doctor, a ...

I think this is an important piece of the puzzle. in a backhanded horribly conspiratorial way it shows that:
- viruses are very real... even if we don't totally understand them
- they've been used as a bioweapon for a long time
- vaccines can work... but can easily go wrong
- the usual disinformation misinformation stuff is always in play

 

[Chester Hunter]

On the Icke thread we referenced the movie One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s nest. I perceive it as relevant here b/c of the possibility of a less dysfunctional form of mass lobotomy (cf the Nick Rockefeller YouTube about chips, and also the documentary The Century of the Self).

The best move the man who found his friend and role model lobotomized could have taken would have been to smother him. His impaired brain would not be retained in the astral afterlife realm. Kastrup is dead wrong about merging into the One upon physical death. How I would love to see him dialog with Jurgen Ziewe.

WoW! I did not know (yet... because I hadn't gotten to the latest interview (assuming this is where it came out).

How I approach this dichotomy is simple: Both can be true where one can chose their path. I wouldn't say, "This is true," much the same as I would not tell another what their truth should be, especially in this regard.

But I will point out that anyone who has done their homework with regards to the history and meanings of "The Right Hand Path" and "The Left Hand Path" understand that both were honored as a choice. Katsrup's view (if that is, indeed what he "believes") and, say, those who believe individuation can continue (and unbroken) beyond the death of the body where, their goal is to refine that individuated being are far more in line with the true meaning of Left Hand Path.

I suggest avoiding the reductionist stuff in Wikipedia with regards to the two terms I mentioned above.

 

[lonevoice]

WoW! I did not know (yet... because I hadn't gotten to the latest interview (assuming this is where it came out).

How I approach this dichotomy is simple: Both can be true where one can chose their path. I wouldn't say, "This is true," much the same as I would not tell another what their truth should be, especially in this regard.

But I will point out that anyone who has done their homework with regards to the history and meanings of "The Right Hand Path" and "The Left Hand Path" understand that both were honored as a choice. Katsrup's view (if that is, indeed what he "believes") and, say, those who believe individuation can continue (and unbroken) beyond the death of the body where, their goal is to refine that individuated being are far more in line with the true meaning of Left Hand Path.

I suggest avoiding the reductionist stuff in Wikipedia.

I am having trouble following your post, esp. the reference to Wiki. Let's talk after you listen to the show? :)

 

[Chester Hunter]

I am having trouble following your post, esp. the reference to Wiki. Let's talk after you listen to the show? :)

Assuming you got this part right "Kastrup is dead wrong about merging into the One upon physical death," I should not have to listen to it just to verify it. I trust you got it right.

Merging into Oneness (or "The One) is equal to "annihilation of the self" and is the essence of Right Hand Path. Left Hand Path says, "Hell no to that," assumes personal responsibility for the self, the individual self with a desire to continue for as long as one might want.

RHP assumes a "third party mechanistic rule set" determines the future of an individual. LHP says, "If that's what you want for yourself... so be it, but I have different plans."

 

[lonevoice]

Assuming you got this part right "Kastrup is dead wrong about merging into the One upon physical death," I should not have to listen to it just to verify it. I trust you got it right.

Merging into Oneness (or "The One) is equal to "annihilation of the self" and is the essence of Right Hand Path. Left Hand Path says, "Hell no to that," assumes personal responsibility for the self, the individual self with a desire to continue for as long as one might want.

RHP assumes a "third party mechanistic rule set" determines the future of an individual. LHP says, "If that's what you want for yourself... so be it, but I have different plans."

Thx, it was a semantic obstacle. I studied LHP in the context of Hinduism, where it means doing outragroeus things like eating excrement.

 

[malf]

Epidemiologists are successfully tracing the spread of the virus by genomic testing of different strains, affecting distinct clusters of outbreaks.

Without a virus to test, how would that work?

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

Epidemiologists are successfully tracing the spread of the virus by genomic testing of different strains, affecting distinct clusters of outbreaks.

Without a virus to test, how would that work?

I suppose the only way that would really work is to have all the epidemiologists in on the hoax.
Unless, of course, they've silenced all the epidemiologists, microbiologists and virologists and are communicating on their behalf.
:D
Spoken as the daughter of a microbial/viral biologist.

 

[Chester Hunter]

I suppose the only way that would really work is to have all the epidemiologists in on the hoax.
Unless, of course, they've silenced all the epidemiologists, microbiologists and virologists and are communicating on their behalf.
:D
Spoken as the daughter of a microbial/viral biologist.

Reductionism - a last resort?

 

[malf]

Reductionism - a last resort?

Good point

 

[Mr. Miao]

Remember that Henry Bauer has consistently argued that the HIV virus (another RNA virus) has never been isolated, and that there is no paper that asserts that it is the cause of AIDS. I do see a certain parallel. He has a lot of evidence on his website - mainly in the form of references to the literature.

David

Speaking of HIV research, two other important names come to mind: Peter Duesberg and Judy Mikovits. Here's a link to an old interview with Duesberg being questioned about his conclusions. It's not a good interview, but it is brief and addresses popular misinformation about HIV and AIDS. As for Mikovits? Her professional career as a virologist is an incredible tale of courage and struggle against Anthony Fauci, institutional corruption, and the american legal system.

 

[dpdownsouth]

Sticking with Mr. Icke, but changing direction:

Icke, while describing his Ayahuasca trip, says he came in contact with a 'shimmering' or 'glistening' darkness which he read as being the Source, God, or whatever you want to call it. Eben Alexander describes having had an almost identical encounter with the Unfathomable during his NDE.

This overlap alone is quite interesting. What makes it more so is that the glistening or shimmering darkness makes an appearance in the ancient western mystical literature.

There are two examples I know of. The first dates from the 5th - 6th century and is written by Dionysius, the great and extremely influential mystical theologian of Christianity. Dionysius describes a darkness shining brighter than light. The second reference is from Sufi literature (early medieval, if memory serves, but I could be entirely wrong on this) and also uses the glistening or shining darkness motif.

Now, the usual explanation is that the bright darkness is used as a metaphor to underscore the unfathomable nature of God or perhaps as a cognitive device to break the reader out of old/stale conceptions ( in a similar vein, Dionysius describes God as 'drunk, hung over, awakening from stupor'). So, here the darkness is basically a literary device.

However, given Icke and Alexander's experiences, I have to wonder if it is somehow not much more literal than that?

 

[blaise]

Dr. Mary's Monkey: How the Unsolved Murder of a Doctor, a ...

I think this is an important piece of the puzzle. in a backhanded horribly conspiratorial way it shows that:
- viruses are very real... even if we don't totally understand them
- they've been used as a bioweapon for a long time
- vaccines can work... but can easily go wrong
- the usual disinformation misinformation stuff is always in play

In My teen years I was in my favorite second hand charity bookshop but found no books that interested me, on my way out there was a beautiful leather-bound set of books that caught my eye, not wanting to leave without buying anything I bought the set.
They stood on my bookshelf for awhile until I started reading them and then couldn't put them down.
They were medical books for the layman explaining all the new medical science (i think they were printed in late 40's) 2 of the cures I remember were stitching all the internal organs together and pumping petroleum jelly into the abdominal cavity , i think these proceedures were done for restlessness or some other trivial reason. Any profession should have the history of its profession , including shit ideas,as a subject to stop the crazy Hubris each generation suffers from.

 

[Alex]

Speaking of HIV research, two other important names come to mind: Peter Duesberg and Judy Mikovits. Here's a link to an old interview with Duesberg being questioned about his conclusions. It's not a good interview, but it is brief and addresses popular misinformation about HIV and AIDS. As for Mikovits? Her professional career as a virologist is an incredible tale of courage and struggle against Anthony Fauci, institutional corruption, and the american legal system.

great. thanks for this. I have queued it up. but I still feel like we need to get to terra firma on the basics of viruses and inoculation /vaccines.

totally get that we don't have a handle on the HIV AIDS link:
UN says African-American women 20 times more likely for HIV ...

but there can be no doubt that viruses can cause disease and death -- think Rabies and Small Pox. of course, this doesn't explain why everyone who is exposed to the virus doesn't get sick... so there's plenty of room for the germ theory folks... herd immunity... inoculation... all these come into play... has does weaponizing dangerous viruses.

but it seems to me they've alt-med folks have it too far and caused a flat earth style confusion.

 

[David Bailey]

I think this is an important piece of the puzzle. in a backhanded horribly conspiratorial way it shows that:
- viruses are very real... even if we don't totally understand them
- they've been used as a bioweapon for a long time
- vaccines can work... but can easily go wrong
- the usual disinformation misinformation stuff is always in play

I have no doubt some viruses are real. However the COVID virus might not exist(as I pointed out above), or it might be similar to a whole range of nasty bugs which we have all caught from time to time. All the statistics relating to COVID seem to have been deliberately obscured - nobody knows how dangerous the virus is. I mean, if you take people who are already desperately sick with something else, and test them for CV19, it makes little sense to add them to the CV19 death total when they die. Or if it does, then it makes no sense to quot ethese numbers as justification for more lockdowns.

Vaccines for really serious diseases are probably worth the risk, but vaccines for many other thinks like measles are probably not. I am starting to believe those that claim that the enormous increase in autism rates has something to do with the MMR vaccine.

Whenever phrases like "science deniers", "climate deniers", "vaccine deniers" get thrown about, I become suspicious!

David

 

[Chester Hunter]

but it seems to me they've alt-med folks have it too far and caused a flat earth style confusion.

Which wouldn't need to be the case if we had institutions we could trust because they are run by "good people." Where are the "good people?" They are in the fringe groups. And this is why social media has decided to block them... not just to keep each group's or each person's information out of the easy access view of the public, but also to keep them from coordinating their information publicly such that the flat-earth stuff gets weeded out.

My position is that likely, something is going on with something that is playing a role in a "new illness." So I take the "new illness" seriously. But I can't trust a word that comes out of the so-called "authorities" who have been caught over and over putting out false and/or massively skewed information and who have "changed their minds / changed their opinions / changed their recommendations many, many times and when we get down to individual "authorities" we see connections to Big Pharma or "Gates type foundations" thus raise my concern they are compromised or corrupted...

So I go to the sources like Dr. Mikovits, the Front Line Doctors, Robert Kennedy Jr., (vaccine), Del Bigtree (vaccine), Dr. Andy Kaufman (exosome studies), Math + prophylaxis and treatment recommendations. And I go back to "gut health" and basic whole food health in general - a great resource is the Weston A. Price Foundation - https://www.westonaprice.org/ and Dr. Mercola as well as his supplements, reasonably priced and make a big difference in how I feel.

And, as you know, I live with a foundation of what you, Alex, branded as my "spiritual Jiu Jitsu" and I do what the purpose of life tells me to do - LIVE!

In our home and in the life of my wife and myself (and our two cats), COVID-19(84) PlanScamDEMic™ has been the cure. No more mainstream TV news, deactivated all social media and use the most unfiltered search mechanisms if we do searches for info BUT, a reliance on the information sources we feel we can trust as to their recommendations of other information sources and when we stumble upon obvious the flat earthers, we note it and move on.

 

[Chester Hunter]

I have no doubt some viruses are real. However the COVID virus might not exist(as I pointed out above), or it might be similar to a whole range of nasty bugs which we have all caught from time to time. All the statistics relating to COVID seem to have been deliberately obscured - nobody knows how dangerous the virus is. I mean, if you take people who are already desperately sick with something else, and test them for CV19, it makes little sense to add them to the CV19 death total when they die. Or if it does, then it makes no sense to quot ethese numbers as justification for more lockdowns.

Vaccines for really serious diseases are probably worth the risk, but vaccines for many other thinks like measles are probably not. I am starting to believe those that claim that the enormous increase in autism rates has something to do with the MMR vaccine.

Whenever phrases like "science deniers", "climate deniers", "vaccine deniers" get thrown about, I become suspicious!

David

A very valid consideration. In fact, the CDC recently released ON THEIR WEBSITE a statement that of all "COVID" related deaths in the US, only 6% (roughly 10,000) are classified as having "COVID alone."

Let that sink in... especially when we consider how flu illnesses gets combined with pneumonia in the CDC statistics and I have never seen the CDC break it all down like they have done with this "COVID" thing. Now go one step further and consider the reports that people who got flu shots were more susceptible to getting (and having a hard go) "COVID." Now consider the reports that the tests are not very accurate. Now then consider the instances where "tests" done at certain labs all came back positive (100%) and that these "labs" were run by "dark blue" political leaners or located in "dark blue" political regions.

And then add on top of that the absolutely disgusting media and how they (IMO) are directly responsible for far more deaths than should have ever occurred - especially in how they demonized hydroxychloroquine and even caused people who would have otherwise used it for early treatment as part of an overall regimen to be prevented from access to the drug - DESPITE the fact that a huge swath of the health care workforce began to use it for prophylaxis.

This is when the word SCAM fits into the description.

And then we look at all the information that has come forth from so many of these alternative sources regarding our US (and the western world) health care and food / water / air supply... but especially food, has been hijacked starting with the Rockefellers and now spearheaded by Baal Gates (and his wife) and their "Foundation" (see the excellent investigations by James Corbett) and their ties to eugenics movements, and so how is it possible anyone can trust in any way any form of "mainstream" information?

In fact, Alex, just because someone has a freaking "degree" doesn't place them at some "higher level" of legitimacy or believability when we know these degrees come from institutions funded all to often by these same foundations who are laced with folks who also happen to have financial stakes either as to their "position" and "stature" in the community or, in businesses that financial benefit from the propping up propaganda they spew... especially the folks connected with all arms of "death technology" like Big Pharma, like the corrupt "legal" lawsuit industry, like the insane billing practices of the "hospital" game, the insurance parasites and on and on...

There is not a single element of that whole system an single individual can rest in trusting. We each have to be our own full time investigate journalists! And with all "the paper" they load us all down with and with all the hidden "real world" inflation us common folk experience every day! And then the need for most families to have both father and mother or partner A and partner B working all too often at the same time, you either don't have kids or if you do, you have to somehow trust they don't end up with the McMartins... and that is if you make more per hour than the cost for daycare per hour.

Then add on top of that we have a marked decrease in fertility (thanks to the destruction of healthy, natural, whole food more than anything) and we haven't even gotten to the increase in radiation from all the lovely wifi and new generations of such... and then, we are soon facing a financial crisis for those who are counting on social security (can we see a reason here to kill off a bunch of old folks? Oooops, did I just get a little conspiratorial?) but with less and less younger folks to feed the social security ponzi scheme, it is doomed to collapse or the taxpayer will have to pay the bill on top of what they forced to pay now)...

And so we are to "trust" the "medical professionals"? We are to "trust" the road "medicine" took with ole Louis Pasteur? A road that has led to mass vaccinations just about at the same time that the few last isolated indigenous groups who never had a thing to do with western medicine and who lived wonderfully healthy lives and who were beautiful people from birth to death have all been killed off or exposed to the western world's wonderful diseases and health practices (including foods and how they are produced)?

And so in closing my rant... imagine how all the above impacts our mental health, our emotional health and (IMO most importantly), our spiritual health and connection?

The LAST thing we should trust is anything that is related to "mainstream" and that includes all the "degreed" professionals and academics who are in any way currently dependent on the system.

 

[Alex]

I have no doubt some viruses are real. However the COVID virus might not exist(as I pointed out above), or it might be similar to a whole range of nasty bugs which we have all caught from time to time.

agreed... At least kind of agree :) I think this is a very important point to tease out. I think the evidence suggests that david icke took a major misstep by claiming that the cove advisors had not been isolated. this seems very unlikely given everything we know at this point. moreover oh, the people who are making these claims (e.g. kaufman) are in the "viruses don't cause disease camp" a position that has some merit within the germ theory view of the world but obfuscates the known reality of virus and disease.

All the statistics relating to COVID seem to have been deliberately obscured - nobody knows how dangerous the virus is. I mean, if you take people who are already desperately sick with something else, and test them for CV19, it makes little sense to add them to the CV19 death total when they die. Or if it does, then it makes no sense to quot ethese numbers as justification for more lockdowns.

I think you're kind of making my point regarding how these issues need to be separated :)

 

[Alex]

A very valid consideration. In fact, the CDC recently released ON THEIR WEBSITE a statement that of all "COVID" related deaths in the US, only 6% (roughly 10,000) are classified as having "COVID alone."

Let that sink in... especially when we consider how flu illnesses gets combined with pneumonia in the CDC statistics and I have never seen the CDC break it all down like they have done with this "COVID" thing. Now go one step further and consider the reports that people who got flu shots were more susceptible to getting (and having a hard go) "COVID." Now consider the reports that the tests are not very accurate. Now then consider the instances where "tests" done at certain labs all came back positive (100%) and that these "labs" were run by "dark blue" political leaners or located in "dark blue" political regions.

And then add on top of that the absolutely disgusting media and how they (IMO) are directly responsible for far more deaths than should have ever occurred - especially in how they demonized hydroxychloroquine and even caused people who would have otherwise used it for early treatment as part of an overall regimen to be prevented from access to the drug - DESPITE the fact that a huge swath of the health care workforce began to use it for prophylaxis.

This is when the word SCAM fits into the description.

And then we look at all the information that has come forth from so many of these alternative sources regarding our US (and the western world) health care and food / water / air supply... but especially food, has been hijacked starting with the Rockefellers and now spearheaded by Baal Gates (and his wife) and their "Foundation" (see the excellent investigations by James Corbett) and their ties to eugenics movements, and so how is it possible anyone can trust in any way any form of "mainstream" information?

In fact, Alex, just because someone has a freaking "degree" doesn't place them at some "higher level" of legitimacy or believability when we know these degrees come from institutions funded all to often by these same foundations who are laced with folks who also happen to have financial stakes either as to their "position" and "stature" in the community or, in businesses that financial benefit from the propping up propaganda they spew... especially the folks connected with all arms of "death technology" like Big Pharma, like the corrupt "legal" lawsuit industry, like the insane billing practices of the "hospital" game, the insurance parasites and on and on...

There is not a single element of that whole system an single individual can rest in trusting. We each have to be our own full time investigate journalists! And with all "the paper" they load us all down with and with all the hidden "real world" inflation us common folk experience every day! And then the need for most families to have both father and mother or partner A and partner B working all too often at the same time, you either don't have kids or if you do, you have to somehow trust they don't end up with the McMartins... and that is if you make more per hour than the cost for daycare per hour.

Then add on top of that we have a marked decrease in fertility (thanks to the destruction of healthy, natural, whole food more than anything) and we haven't even gotten to the increase in radiation from all the lovely wifi and new generations of such... and then, we are soon facing a financial crisis for those who are counting on social security (can we see a reason here to kill off a bunch of old folks? Oooops, did I just get a little conspiratorial?) but with less and less younger folks to feed the social security ponzi scheme, it is doomed to collapse or the taxpayer will have to pay the bill on top of what they forced to pay now)...

And so we are to "trust" the "medical professionals"? We are to "trust" the road "medicine" took with ole Louis Pasteur? A road that has led to mass vaccinations just about at the same time that the few last isolated indigenous groups who never had a thing to do with western medicine and who lived wonderfully healthy lives and who were beautiful people from birth to death have all been killed off or exposed to the western world's wonderful diseases and health practices (including foods and how they are produced)?

And so in closing my rant... imagine how all the above impacts our mental health, our emotional health and (IMO most importantly), our spiritual health and connection?

The LAST thing we should trust is anything that is related to "mainstream" and that includes all the "degreed" professionals and academics who are in any way currently dependent on the system.

I understand. but I think we need to dig deeper to understand david ike's misstep... if it is in fact a misstep... which I think it is :-)

 

[Chester Hunter]

I understand. but I think we need to dig deeper to understand david ike's misstep... if it is in fact a misstep... which I think it is :)

Probably because of my respect for you and your intellectual and intuitive record, I am wide open minded. In fact, I follow the Math+ prophylaxis regimen primarily so that I might better avoid, if I "get the virus" giving it to those who live in my home, other loved ones/friends and others I may not know but might come in contact with... and ultimately, yes, myself.

But also, I know David Icke quite well and anyone who does knows you have to take some of his views as simply and only his current opinion or his current "wish that it be true." I never throw the baby out with the bath water and Icke has presented plenty of "real baby" since he hit the scene almost 30 years ago. In fact, his main messages from those early days and throughout look incredibly predictive. Sadly so.

Considering Kaufman's information, I put his info in the fuller basket of info which I listed several sources above, some who believe there's a virus.

If I had a gun to my head and were asked what I believe, I would say, I believe there is something that is causing a new illness to emerge.

Sadly then, I open up to the various possibilities as to whether some particular "cause" for this was something that naturally occurred or was "man-manipulated or man-made." I am then just as open to the possibility that if it were man-manipulated or man-made, it's "release" was an accident or possibly intentional.

This last paragraph is why I incorporate "Plan" into my term COVID-19(84) PlanScamDEMic™ as my label for this illness, its possible cause(s) and how it has been used to impose potential agendas (one of them being political).

 

[David Bailey]

agreed... At least kind of agree :) I think this is a very important point to tease out. I think the evidence suggests that david icke took a major misstep by claiming that the cove advisors had not been isolated. this seems very unlikely given everything we know at this point.

The core issue is that apparently nowadays they are willing to work with a mixture that contains a lot of virus but where the virus has never been fully separated from body tissue. I guess you would need to search for a paper claiming to have isolated CV19.

The situation with AIDS seems to be similar - and it is also a retrovirus - RNA rather than DNA. The next step is to smash open the virus and search the RNA to be found, but until you get the virus totally pure, you might be looking at human RNA.

From what I have read, the whole issue is a murkier area of science than one might expect.

David