Mod+ 253. SUZANNE TAYLOR, THE SCIENTIFIC MYSTERY OF CROP CIRCLES

As I read this thread I didn't notice anyone mentioning the 'middle road' theory (my name), that the designs are done by humans, but in a sort of channeling or automatic writing mode (not original with me by any means). And if this seems completely silly (and I'm not saying I believe it) you're probably not up on your automatic writing lore; I highly recommend reading about Patience Worth (Pearl Curran). She was right up there with crop circles for mind bending. The book, Singer in the Shadows, The Strange Story of Patience Worth, by Irving Litvag tells the story and is currently available on Amazon for $1 plus shipping.
 
I watched the documentary but I honestly found it incredibly boring. It's a continuos cycling of the same bunch of new age authors, probably self-appointed researchers of the phenomena that keep firing the same enthusiastic hyperbole and keywords without providing any real information.

In general the film contains very little investigative work and besides a few strange occurrences with electronic devices, the author doesn't make any effort to separate the wheat from the chaff or get deeper in the mystery. It gets dull pretty quickly but I forced myself to keep watching until the end.

Also, even without having read much about the subject, I noticed that at least 50% of the formations that are shown repeatedly in the video could easily be man-made, but for some reason they are all acritically offered as "genuine messages from higher intelligences". It gets annoying after a while.

To give some perspective near where I live there's a group of 6-7 people that make crop circles as a hobby, asking permission to the field's owner before getting to work. Very recently they created this crop circle:

Screen+Shot+2014-06-21+at+16.24.13.png


Which could easily compete with many of those shown in the documentary in terms of complexity. Of course not all of them and a few in particular are extremely remarkable, including the "alien with CD" shown earlier.

They did the above formation in one night from 10pm to 4am, 7 people. Funnily they declared that "no alien was harmed in the making of this crop circle" :D

Here's the article in Italian if you're interested:
http://attivissimo.blogspot.it/2014/06/il-cerchio-nel-grano-di-stanotte.html

The intro to the article is in English, the rest you can translate with Google.

I would have liked to know more about the strange phenomena such as weird materials found in the formations, strange EM activities etc... maybe there's some interesting evidence for something really strange going on but the documentary fails completely to dig it up :(
 
Taylor's point about the transformative nature of art was well made, but it didn't require aliens to tell us that much. I'm waiting for Banksy to get in on the act, he's from the right part of the country.
 
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To give some perspective near where I live there's a group of 6-7 people that make crop circles as a hobby, asking permission to the field's owner before getting to work. Very recently they created this crop circle:
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Which could easily compete with many of those shown in the documentary in terms of complexity. Of course not all of them and a few in particular are extremely remarkable, including the "alien with CD" shown earlier.
This is still very easy to make. The large circles are concentric. Yet it took seven people six hours. It doesn't compare in complexity to many of the circles on film. Those have many curves which are not arcs or arcs which are not concentric, yet are positioned correctly to create an intricate pattern. Some of the more complicated formations include fractal patterns.

Why don't don't they try to copy one of the more complicated formations and see if they can do it correctly in one try, without being detected?

They did the above formation in one night from 10pm to 4am, 7 people. Funnily they declared that "no alien was harmed in the making of this crop circle" :D

Did passers by spot them? If they were working in England they would have been seen.

I would like to see a close up photograph of the pattern made by the stalks laid down on the ground, and photos that could reveal marks or node distortions on the stalks.
 
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This is still very easy to make. The large circles are concentric. Yet it took seven people six hours. It doesn't compare in complexity to many of the circles on film. Those have many curves which are not arcs or arcs which are not concentric, yet are positioned correctly to create an intricate pattern. Some of the more complicated formations include fractal patterns.

Why don't don't they try to copy one of the more complicated formations and see if they can do it correctly in one try, without being detected?
I see what you're saying but my point was that the documentary simply provides a carousel of formations without giving any details as to why they should be regarded as anomalous. Complexity is just one variable. What are the parameters by which those crop circles were selected to be shown? If any? Some of them are incredibly simple, much simpler than the one I posted. They don't mention any of the reason why those were selected, for instance. Maybe they indeed had anomalous variables associated with them but we'll never know.

Did passers by spot them? If they were working in England they would have been seen.
Yes, and the same questions I would have asked for each formation in the video. What makes them special.
Also is it always necessary that crop circles are created overnight? Wouldn't it be possible that in very large fields they may go undetected for days? Giving more time for the completion of the work?

I would like to see a close up photograph of the pattern made by the stalks laid down on the ground, and photos that could reveal marks or node distortions on the stalks.
Me too and I would like those manually made to be compared with those supposed to be unexplainable (the alien face, for instance)
Is there any research that has gone in depth into these topics?
 
As I read this thread I didn't notice anyone mentioning the 'middle road' theory (my name), that the designs are done by humans, but in a sort of channeling or automatic writing mode (not original with me by any means). And if this seems completely silly (and I'm not saying I believe it) you're probably not up on your automatic writing lore; I highly recommend reading about Patience Worth (Pearl Curran). She was right up there with crop circles for mind bending. The book, Singer in the Shadows, The Strange Story of Patience Worth, by Irving Litvag tells the story and is currently available on Amazon for $1 plus shipping.

I wouldn't call that a "middle road" theory as it's more implausible than any others I've seen. Not because I think it impossible that humans can move energy like that (they can ) but because I can't see how/why there would not be at least a few individuals claiming responsibility but hey . . speculation can be fun.
 
To give some perspective near where I live there's a group of 6-7 people that make crop circles as a hobby, asking permission to the field's owner before getting to work. Very recently they created this crop circle:

Screen+Shot+2014-06-21+at+16.24.13.png

You'll notice that the circle area abuts a road. IOW if people are going to make one they need a way to get equipment in and out. For the CCs far from any road or path, unless the equipment has been airlifted in by a highly skilled chopper pilot, there will always be some discernible evidence of an access route.
 
I see what you're saying but my point was that the documentary simply provides a carousel of formations without giving any details as to why they should be regarded as anomalous. Complexity is just one variable. What are the parameters by which those crop circles were selected to be shown? If any? Some of them are incredibly simple, much simpler than the one I posted. They don't mention any of the reason why those were selected, for instance. Maybe they indeed had anomalous variables associated with them but we'll never know.
Because it was a documentary not a peer-reviewed research paper?
Where is the peer reviewed research showing they are all hoaxes?
The documentary gives many anomalies of crop circles:

In the movie there were many reason given for belief in the anomalous nature of the circles. Some of them are:

One person found he got no signal on his mobile phone inside the circle but got a strong signal just outside the circle. He went along the convoluted perimeter of a complex formation and saw this occurred all along the perimeter.

There are many other reports of electronic equipment failing inside the circles.

There were certain crystals in soil samples from circles that would not normally be formed except deep under ground.

The pattern of the stalks inside the circle forms intricate "woven" patterns that could not be made by the methods the hoaxers claim to use.

You can tell when a stalk has been even lightly touched because it leaves a mark on the surface. Hoaxed circles show marks on the stems but genuine circles don't.

Nodes in the stems are deformed or exploded in genuine circles but not in hoaxed circles.

The stems in hoaxed circles have a crease where they are bent, in genuine circles the stems are laid down without creasing.

The hoaxers didn't have sufficient knowledge of geometry to be able to make the circles. Mathematicians have found unique solutions to mathematical questions in the circles, such as various new methods of squaring the circle.

People have experienced healing while visiting crop circles.

Large circle formations would take many people a lot of time to form and it would not be possible for them to do it without being observed.

Intricate patterns are formed without error while most human engineering projects have various errors and delays.

Hoaxers were witnessed to be elsewhere at the time they claimed to be making circles.

The press release announcing the hoaxers has been traced to a military base suggesting the hoax hoax is government misinformation.

I am not an expert in crop circles. I thought this information about anomalous characteristics of crop circles was very well presented and makes the video worth watching. I don't demand the same level of evidence from a documentary video that I do from peer-reviewed research papers.

Where is the list of circles that are supposedly hoaxes and how they are determined to be hoaxes?

Yes, and the same questions I would have asked for each formation in the video. What makes them special.
Also is it always necessary that crop circles are created overnight? Wouldn't it be possible that in very large fields they may go undetected for days? Giving more time for the completion of the work?
Because there are planes flying over the area with tourists all the time ... where are the photos of half made crop circles?
Me too and I would like those manually made to be compared with those supposed to be unexplainable (the alien face, for instance)
Is there any research that has gone in depth into these topics?

What is your point? Are you saying the documentary is superficial. Or are you saying all crop circles are made by hoaxers? If the latter I think you need more evidence than the one in photo you posted was made by seven people in six hours.
 
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What is your point? Are you saying the documentary is superficial. Or are you saying all crop circles are made by hoaxers?
Yes I am saying it is very superficial, and no I am not saying that all formations are hoaxed. How would I know...

If the latter I think you need more evidence than the one in photo you posted was made by seven people in six hours.
I've been on this website for a long time, of course I am not saying that. It is exactly the kind of ridiculous generalizations that we hear from certain pseudo-skeptic.

It seems like you didn't read what I wrote:
Bucky said:
Which could easily compete with many of those shown in the documentary in terms of complexity. Of course not all of them and a few in particular are extremely remarkable, including the "alien with CD" shown earlier.
I am not generalizing that all crop circles are hoaxes.
I am criticizing the documentary for not going into the details of which variables were evaluated in order to include or exclude the crop circles in their work.

One example.
What is so special about this one? Given that complexity is not in question, I wonder what other variables were taken into account.

chilcomb90.jpg


Bottom line: if I wanted to present the evidence that aliens are communicating with us via crop circles, I would strive to gather the best cases and offer compelling evidence for each single case. There's no need for peer-reviewd studies in a documentary, but at the same time the evidence presented in Taylor's work is very fragmented and disorganized.
If you cut from the video all of the new-agey speculations and tangential topics, the video could very well last 10 minutes, at best. :(
 
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An excellent documentary on the subject is "The circle makers" a couple of hours of interviews with various groups/ people that make them. Made by a circle maker.
Generally there is a disconnect between the researchers and the circle makers. The views of the circle makers are as wide and varied as the general audience. They are the real experts after all. They are a mixture of pranksters (few), artists, but also those using it for magik and those seeking a paranormal experience. Some report paranormal events, altered time, shadowy figures, some feel compelled to make them, some report having thier designs finished or replicated in the same night. The balls of light are a common phenomena witnessed by many circle makers.

It is not as simple as are they man made or not, or are aliens responsible. The circle makers themselves have some interesting stuff to add.

Years ago I noticed a link between cymatics and some crop circle patterns. Some are visual representaions of frequency patterns that manifest in the laws of nature. I even contacted Colin Andrews about it.

Colin has some authentic video of a ball of light being investigated by a black helicopter when on the way to check out a new formation. BTW. He's top knotch!
 
It is not as simple as are they man made or not, or are aliens responsible.
Why does whatever-it-is not finish other works of art? Why not paintings or garden landscaping? Why only cereal crops in southern England? Why do the cereal shapes mostly mimic the iconography of cyberpunk, alt. pagan and new age travellers who gravitate towards south west England?
 
Why does whatever-it-is not finish other works of art? Why not paintings or garden landscaping? Why only cereal crops in southern England? Why do the cereal shapes mostly mimic the iconography of cyberpunk, alt. pagan and new age travellers who gravitate towards south west England?
From a skeptic site devoted to debunking another documentary: if 90% of circle crops occur in England (mostly southern), why don't 90% of UFO sightings occur in England? Huge disconnect.
 
I don't see how Alex can come to his definite-seeming conclusion without spending a lot of time doing research in this area. On just a few nights of looking around the web, I found a lot of stuff that made me go "Oh wait... not so fast". (That doesn't mean I would rule out aliens being responsible for some crop circles, or that there are very intriguing phenomena associated with some circles.)

If they were working in England they would have been seen.
From a skeptical site:

Hoaxers have demonstrated these formations can be easily made using the most basic equipment, usually a flat board, which is moved progressively forward stamping down the stalks, a rope, and sometimes a long tape-measure. Even Andrews (2002) admitted that with a single board one could create a circle 23m in diameter in about 40 minutes. More recently some hoaxers have used water-filled lightweight plastic garden rollers that enable them to flatten the crops much faster than with a plank. In one nighttime competition to create a pictogram the runner up was Schnabel, who ‘worked alone armed only with a plank, some lengths of rope, and a small garden roller’. (Science 1992)

Hoaxers have created complex patterns very quickly: e.g. Dickinson (1999) reported that along with two others, they created for US television a 91m pattern containing 150 circles and complex geometrical shapes, that was completed in 3hr 45 min’ while others created a 61m pictogram in four hours for a local pop group. Although this was done in daylight, hoaxers say that working in moonlight is not much more difficult: the secret is careful planning, especially determining the proper sequence for producing the various parts of the pictogram.

To support their claim that the formations are alien creations, Cereologists insist these patterns are made in a short space of time, always ‘overnight’, yet this is not necessarily a valid claim for it is quite possible some are made over several nights. Brookesmith (2001) cites the quite complex Bythorn Mandala that was done ‘in two stints’ (p 42). The fact is that most rural fields are rather isolated, often located on rarely used back-roads, so they rarely attract attention and are rarely visited. Crops that might take five to six months to grow may only be checked by the farmers three or four times during that time. Their isolation allows hoaxers plenty of time to visit these fields over several nights and create the most elaborate formations at their convenience. Furthermore, because of their isolation many patterns may remain undetected for some time.
http://www.skepticssa.org.au/html/cropcircles.html
 
I don't know if magnetic particles dropped into the circles by the hoaxers (or crop circle "artistes" :) ) could account for claims of interference with cell phones, etc.

From another site devoted to debunking another crop circle documentary:

At 26:48 of the film, Gamble asserts that “strange magnetic particles” are found in crop circles. This sounds like a convincing explanation for some non-human origin, doesn’t it? (Of course it does, which is why Gamble uses this example).

This feature too is easily explained. Here is a page that explains how to create a crop circle—with magnetic particles included. [http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Crop-Circle] Here’s how you do it:

“Also, melt some iron filings into droplets on site and sprinkle them around the flattened area to leave ‘meteorite particles’ and magnetized stalks.”

This is yet another technique used by hoaxers precisely to stoke the idea among believers that crop circles have some sort of paranormal origin. In this case, Foster Gamble fell for it.

http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/2011/11/19/crop-circles-debunked/

From the Wiki How:

11 Add "supernatural" touches to your crop circle. Add a hoax-like dimension to your work by making it appear as if aliens authored the crop circles. Here are some suggestions.
  • Bend some stalks around by exposing them to a blue light source for a few hours. Applying small amounts of natural gum or plaster will lock their new shape. Sadly, this approach may not satisfy a detailed or scientific inspection.
  • Create swirled nests in the flattened areas by your clever weaving of stalks.
  • Melt some iron filings into droplets on-site and sprinkle them around the flattened area to leave "meteorite particles" and magnetized stalks.
  • Try varying the direction you flatten the corn, wavy lines or up a line then back a line. This creates amazing shiny lay patterns visible from the air.
 
From a skeptic site devoted to debunking another documentary: if 90% of circle crops occur in England (mostly southern), why don't 90% of UFO sightings occur in England? Huge disconnect.
Indeed. The area where the crop circles are also happens to be the region with the largest number of extant stone circles, henges and similar prehistoric artefacts. Alternative communities have gravitated to the area for years prior to cereal pictograms, with Glastonbury as its "spiritual" home. The most likely cause of crop circles is ostension, copying the cultural presence of prehistory in a modern agricultural format.
 
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