lighter_than_air
New
I think life has more meaning when you consider that our consciousness is infinite and everything is love (I know that last bit sounds kinda hokey, but I do believe that!).
I don't think so, but you said:
"Maybe start by having some God damn faith!"
Faith in what?
~~ Paul
I thought it was funny, but then it seemed to get serious in subsequent posts. I must have been in a too-serious mood.I figured you'd pick up I was just kidding. I found it funny at the time imagining you (from what I gather of you) having faith in a universal cosmic purpose.
I'm only certain in my conviction because I don't see any cosmic purpose. If one suddenly appears, I'll certainly change my conviction. I find it difficult to assign tentative purpose.One thing I find fascinating is how both atheists and religious people seem to have such certainty in their convictions, whereas in reality, the universe is uncertain, we as a species are still pretty young, we have not even scratched the surface of what's out there. We need more doubt, and to be comfortable with it.
I agree with you Junkie. And TBH, I'm sure there is plenty of doubt going on on both sides, just not in public. There is a lot of money and notoriety to be earned in both cases for being the stand-out blow hard. Expressing doubt in those cases would be career suicide and I just don't see that happening.One thing I find fascinating is how both atheists and religious people seem to have such certainty in their convictions, whereas in reality, the universe is uncertain, we as a species are still pretty young, we have not even scratched the surface of what's out there. We need more doubt, and to be comfortable with it.
Could be, but what evidence do you have to be sure of these statements? Is it only from your own personal experience or interpretations of others experiences?Life, in and of itself, is meaningless. It is when you apply meaning to this illusion it then becomes meaningful only as a tool for gaining experience, the only reason one lives in this physical cosmic joke.
I'm perfectly happy that my life has no cosmic meaning. First of all, I have no idea what it would be.
~~ Paul
I have no idea what you might perceive as evidential but I have found that thoughts (actions, application of meaningfulness) arise from from beliefs. Those beliefs drive what we do and who we see ourselves as. Hence, life, and no circumstances in life, inherently have meaning to wit "Life, in and of itself, is meaningless. It is when you apply meaning to this illusion it then becomes meaningful only as a tool for gaining experience..."Could be, but what evidence do you have to be sure of these statements? Is it only from your own personal experience or interpretations of others experiences?
I can't. I just don't think that it does, since nothing in my list of life's meanings is tagged as the "cosmic meaning."If you have no idea what it would be, how can you say that it does not exist?
I have no idea what you might perceive as evidential but I have found that thoughts (actions, application of meaningfulness) arise from from beliefs. Those beliefs drive what we do and who we see ourselves as. Hence, life, and no circumstances in life, inherently have meaning to wit "Life, in and of itself, is meaningless. It is when you apply meaning to this illusion it then becomes meaningful only as a tool for gaining experience..."
I can't. I just don't think that it does, since nothing in my list of life's meanings is tagged as the "cosmic meaning."
~~ Paul
If the universe is ultimately subjective
why couldn't there be meaning?
Opinions are subjective, facts are not. The co-creation of your physical [ir]reality is a fact, ymmv, it is always your choice...determined by your belief systems.
Once you apply your belief to the life event, it is. A chair is uneventful from an experience viewpoint until you use it as a chair.
Until then, a life event is a co-creation that is resolved for no other purpose than to apply beliefs, see what the experience is from that application, then learn from that. This is why we live to learn from experiences, nothing else.
The facts themselves would ultimately be subjective if there is only one consciousness.
Why would meaning have to require beliefs? Why couldn't it transcend belief?
I accept that as your belief. Thank you for that.
Beliefs --> emotions --> thought ---> co-creation (including application of meaning). It is the sequence humans follow.
No, but I would expect that if you claim there is cosmic meaning, I should be able to recognize it from among all the other meanings that I've assigned. Otherwise what does the claim mean?Why would you expect that you would have the meaning written down?
Would you expect the meaning of life to be some Jeopardy statement whose answer is "what is the meaning of life?"
I'm more interested in what you believe is evidence since you're making the claim not me. For my clarity, I'll try to paraphrase your claim so let me know if I get this wrong:I have no idea what you might perceive as evidential but I have found that thoughts (actions, application of meaningfulness) arise from from beliefs. Those beliefs drive what we do and who we see ourselves as. Hence, life, and no circumstances in life, inherently have meaning to wit "Life, in and of itself, is meaningless. It is when you apply meaning to this illusion it then becomes meaningful only as a tool for gaining experience..."
No, but I would expect that if you claim there is cosmic meaning, I should be able to recognize it from among all the other meanings that I've assigned. Otherwise what does the claim mean?
~~ Paul