The Donald Trump Thread

[Kamarling]

In the UK, Channel 4 ran a documentary last night on Trump, Can He Really Win?

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/mar/31/president-trump-can-he-really-win-tv-review

Even Hurmanetar might have liked it, mainly because it suggested that Trump's populist appeal might yet carry the election for him. We saw interviews showing a mix of opinions, from those of the poor and jobless, to a group of well-to-do elderly white ladies, to political commentators. Clearly, the biggest single factor was the 2nd Amendment, but the anti-establishment sentiment was running strong among many of the "ordinary" people questioned.

What it highlighted for me was a deep divide in the population. One the one side are the ethnic minorities, liberals and those who are inclusive, while on the other side are those who blame others for their plight - foreigners, socialists, establishment politicians and the politically correct. I have to say that, as a Brit, I see clear parallels with the way the Brexit Leave campaign was conducted - playing to those very same issues. One of the most chilling interviews was with a Republican State Committee member in Ohio, one Bob Murphy. When it was suggested to him that whoever wins, there could be dangerous conflict - perhaps even civil war - he said "I like it".

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...new-US-Civil-War-Hillary-Clinton-Donald-Trump

 

[Hurmanetar]

What it highlighted for me was a deep divide in the population. One the one side are the ethnic minorities, liberals and those who are inclusive, while on the other side are those who blame others for their plight - foreigners, socialists, establishment politicians and the politically correct.

Identity politics is the most effective kind of politics, and apparently you've swallowed it hook line and sinker: "Loving Liberal or Low-info Xenophobe. How do you identify?" ...Only two choices allowed. No room for nuance or critical thought. You must identify as one or the other based on your feelings.

I'll presume that since you identify as inclusive loving liberal, you've done away with all boundaries that could be used to disinclude and discriminate and create structure... No more fences. Take your front door off the hinges and burn it. Let anyone and everyone stay at your home and consume your substance. As soon as you complete your immigration process to NZ, immediately begin lobbying the NZ government to do away with its strict immigration requirements so that anyone with a one-way plane ticket or a good boat can move in next door and begin receiving a portion of your taxes while not paying taxes themselves.

The reason New Zealand is awesome is because it is a more sparsely populated and geographically diverse version of Britain with the egalitarian European ideals and social norms mixed in with the indigenous Maori creating something special and quaint and unique. There's nothing unique when there are no borders and boundaries.

Boundaries create structure. Culture and civilization is structure. Structure is stability. Structure is difficult to conquer. A people with an identity and heritage of liberty and independence is difficult to conquer. If you destroy boundaries, you have no culture, no civilization, no identities, just a mass of directionless humanity that is more easily manipulated on a mass scale such that the individual has no say in his government and loses any ability to organize an opposition movement. There will then be no ability for individuals to organize a defense against the abuse and usurpation of rights by the corporate slave masters.

It might surprise you to learn that I am an inclusive loving liberal who also believes in boundaries. My existence destroys the simplified narrative presented by the piece of propaganda you cited. When tested, I come out left of center on the political compass. Before I began a relationship with my now fiancée, I let anyone and everyone live in my home and didn't kick them out when they couldn't afford rent. I let people walk all over me and take advantage. I had black housemates, Hispanic housemates, white housemates. I even had a married couple living with me for a while. I took in a guy who came to church and got conscience stricken about his lifestyle living with a stripper... He came in drunk and having sex on my couch. (I took them to church, gave the guy a couple hundred dollars for hotel and food and told him he had to leave by the end of the week.) I went to an all-black church in the ghetto side of town for a while. I picked up every foul-smelling mentally ill hitchhiker. I kept bottled water and blankets in my car to pass out to the homeless.

The last guy I let take advantage of me stayed in my house for a year and a half rent free. I felt sorry for him because he had a shitty job and multiple child support payments and needed a friend. But I shouldn't have felt sorry for him. He didn't deserve it. He was a manipulative neurotic narcissist. After a full year of me excusing his rent payment (while he spent spare money on Beats and workout supplements) he got a job selling cars where his skills at manipulation made him the #1 car salesman earning $10,000 per month. Instead of paying me back for my kindness, in that first month he bought a luxury car at 15% interest and replaced the stereo with one costing more than the year's rent that I excused.

Some people are just shitty people who aren't going to learn anything from generosity. Don't cast your pearls before swine. You can be kind and loving and inclusive without also being a sucker. That's something I've had to learn the hard way. The world is full of both good and shitty people and we are all by degrees and at different moments both. It is important to learn how to be discriminating while still having a heart.

The globalist social engineers and propagandists emotionally manipulate kind-hearted people like yourself into destroying the boundaries and structures that exist as barriers to their exploitative agenda. National boundaries are one aspect of this.

 

[Kamarling]

Identity politics is the most effective kind of politics, and apparently you've swallowed it hook line and sinker: "Loving Liberal or Low-info Xenophobe. How do you identify?" ...Only two choices allowed. No room for nuance or critical thought. You must identify as one or the other based on your feelings.

That's as much of a misrepresentation as that you accuse me of. You share your stories about how people have let you down as though I would not understand your bitterness. We have all been let down - by friends, family, teachers and government. But I don't stock up on guns, rabble-rouse for nationalist campaigns or blame whole groups of "others" who happen to come from a different background to me. I draw my boundaries differently to yours.

I don't identify with nationality - I will be at home in NZ just as I am in England. Both countries have rules of entry which I understand. I had a tough vetting procedure to endure just to be able to go and live near to my son. I would not expect them to change that for anyone else. But I am not going to start voting for imbeciles who promote hatred of others and superiority of the few. Someone who will trample human rights, sanction torture and use the armed forces as to take revenge when his inflated self-opinion is pricked.

Hitler was a social engineer too. And a propagandist. How many kind-hearted people joined the SS? Nazi means nationalist, after all. One of the commentators on the TV program last night - another Republican - drew several comparisons between Hitler and Trump. She said we should be afraid. I am.

 

[Kamarling]

Oh, and as for the accusation that I make no room for nuance or critical thought (God, am I getting tired of people who make exclusive claim to the facility of critical thinking), I watched the whole documentary and for large parts of it found myself thinking - yes, I can see why the jobless in that small steel town are upset about that. Or, shit, Clinton really is a fraud. I understand that there are issues that Trump includes in his rhetoric which I would find some sympathy with.

But the reality I believe is that he's a dangerous, loose cannon. Clinton is a poor choice but she's the only choice.

 

[Hurmanetar]

...I will be at home in NZ just as I am in England. Both countries have rules of entry which I understand. I had a tough vetting procedure to endure just to be able to go and live near to my son. I would not expect them to change that for anyone else.

So why are Americans (or Germans or Swedes or other Europeans) not allowed to enforce the laws that already exist to have this same tough vetting procedure? And why is anyone who wants to follow these laws labeled a bigoted, racist, hateful, Xenophobe?

But I am not going to start voting for imbeciles who promote hatred of others and superiority of the few.

I certainly would not do that either.

Someone who will trample human rights, sanction torture and use the armed forces as to take revenge when his inflated self-opinion is pricked.

Like Hillary and BHO.

I don't agree with Trump's statements on torture, but I think his bluster and bark would be far worse than his bite and a huge base of Trump's support comes from the alternative media following libertarians such as the Alex Jones / Infowars audience who will continue to rip Trump on torture policy if he continues with it. At least during the campaign Trump has proven to be responsive to this audience, so hopefully that trend will continue once in office.

Hitler was a social engineer too.

Again with the Hitler argument... Never gets old..

Nazi means nationalist, after all.

Don't forget the second half: socialist.

Have you considered that Hitler is employed as a prop to steer people into believing nationalism is a dirty word?

Yes, I understand that Nationalism and excessive patriotic fervor can be and has been used to manipulate the unthinking masses into terrible violent actions (such as the post 9/11 warpath). And that is a problem with human nature and controlled press. This doesn't mean the nation-state must be replaced with a faceless global corporatocracy where individuals have no say in their regional government.

One of the commentators on the TV program last night - another Republican - drew several comparisons between Hitler and Trump. She said we should be afraid. I am.

The demonization of Trump is entirely unwarranted. There's a huge difference in someone who argues that de-industrialization, bad trade deals, and lack of immigration law enforcement is bad for the middle working class, and someone who argues that certain races are inherently bad based on pseudoscientific interpretations of Darwinism. At worst, Trump will be impotent because he doesn't have the backing of the globalist media.

(God, am I getting tired of people who make exclusive claim to the facility of critical thinking),

I know you can do it too, if you try ;)

sorry...I'm a pompous jackass :)

I watched the whole documentary and for large parts of it found myself thinking - yes, I can see why the jobless in that small steel town are upset about that. Or, shit, Clinton really is a fraud. I understand that there are issues that Trump includes in his rhetoric which I would find some sympathy with.

Good!

But the reality I believe is that he's a dangerous, loose cannon.

Well, I can't argue with someone's beliefs.

Clinton is a poor choice, but she's the only choice.

So you'd go with someone we know is a dangerous murdering reckless racketeering criminal who sells influence for personal gain and has cozied up to the world's leading despots.... over someone you believe might be because he wants to vet immigrants and fight back against the globalists. ...makes sense

 

[Hurmanetar]

That's as much of a misrepresentation as that you accuse me of. You share your stories about how people have let you down as though I would not understand your bitterness. We have all been let down - by friends, family, teachers and government. But I don't stock up on guns, rabble-rouse for nationalist campaigns or blame whole groups of "others" who happen to come from a different background to me. I draw my boundaries differently to yours.

I don't identify with nationality - I will be at home in NZ just as I am in England. Both countries have rules of entry which I understand. I had a tough vetting procedure to endure just to be able to go and live near to my son. I would not expect them to change that for anyone else. But I am not going to start voting for imbeciles who promote hatred of others and superiority of the few. Someone who will trample human rights, sanction torture and use the armed forces as to take revenge when his inflated self-opinion is pricked.

Hitler was a social engineer too. And a propagandist. How many kind-hearted people joined the SS? Nazi means nationalist, after all. One of the commentators on the TV program last night - another Republican - drew several comparisons between Hitler and Trump. She said we should be afraid. I am.

Off topic... Domino's Drone Delivery starts up in New Zealand!

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11700291

Man... New Zealand is so cool... I'm jealous of your move.

 

[malf]

Lucky us. A lot of stuff gets tested out on us here first. I think it's something to do with our small 'manageable' population and being miles from civilisation if something goes wrong.

The 8 legged chicken ("drumsticks for everyone") has been a big hit.

 

[Bart V]

Lucky us. A lot of stuff gets tested out on us here first. I think it's something to do with our small 'manageable' population and being miles from civilisation if something goes wrong.

The 8 legged chicken ("drumsticks for everyone") has been a big hit.

But catching one is hell.

 

[Hurmanetar]

Hillary attacks the "Alt-Right", mentions Alex Jones and Milo by name. Says it's a conspiracy led by Putin. PJW responds:

 

[Ian Gordon]

Hurm, you might like this. Lisa (who was right on Brexit and Theresa May) is giving Trump a clear edge. (Not a bad political analyst, either.)

 

[Hurmanetar]

lol

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...answers-what-aleppo-awkward-confusion-follows

During the NYT's attempt to lampoon the "confused" Johnson, the NYT gave its answer to "what is Aleppo", not once, but twice.

This was the awkward result.

 

[Ian Gordon]

This doesn't look good.

For anybody who knows about Parkinson's, would this type of transient, temporary failing be indicative of the disease? Or another similar medical condition?

If she has any type of actual condition, I think she'd be better off coming out with it.

 

[Steve]

If she has any type of actual condition, I think she'd be better off coming out with it.

If Hillary dropped out, would anyone take the Democratic slot? What would the procedure be?

 

[David Bailey]

Oh, and as for the accusation that I make no room for nuance or critical thought (God, am I getting tired of people who make exclusive claim to the facility of critical thinking), I watched the whole documentary and for large parts of it found myself thinking - yes, I can see why the jobless in that small steel town are upset about that. Or, shit, Clinton really is a fraud. I understand that there are issues that Trump includes in his rhetoric which I would find some sympathy with.

But the reality I believe is that he's a dangerous, loose cannon. Clinton is a poor choice but she's the only choice.

I have to say, that while neither candidate is ideal presidential material, I think Clinton is by far the more dangerous. She can't seem to see what DT can see - that Russia would gladly be our ally against Islamic extremism, and that the Ukraine situation is largely the fault of the west.

She wants to 'win' in Syria, and winning in Syria once Assad is deposed would be like trying to hold Iraq together after Saddam had been deposed, or trying to put a decent regime into Libya after Gaddafi was removed - just a pipe dream. President Putin, and Donald Trump seem to understand that.

I think she could bring about a nuclear war if she gets into power. If she drops out, of course, things might be different.

David

 

[Ian Gordon]

If Hillary dropped out, would anyone take the Democratic slot? What would the procedure be?

I don't know, Steve. If I were an American, I'd still vote for her even if she was dying. The thing is possibly lots of Dem or Clinton supporters would too (a lot would surely prefer Kaine finish the job), but if she did something else (like hiding a medical condition) to add to the image of her being a monster of deception (built up over the years by the right wingers and conspiracists - not that I don't think she's always been honest - just that I can't trust what a politically motivated segment built as a narrative about her), then that wouldn't help her in November.

 

[Steve]

I don't know, Steve. If I were an American, I'd still vote for her even if she was dying. The thing is possibly lots of Dem or Clinton supporters would too (a lot would surely prefer Kaine finish the job), but if she did something else (like hiding a medical condition) to add to the image of her being a monster of deception (built up over the years by the right wingers and conspiracists - not that I don't think she's always been honest - just that I can't trust what a politically motivated segment built as a narrative about her), then that wouldn't help her in November.

I don't know if you remember the post that Typoz posted about (President)Bernie Sanders some time ago. It has always stuck in my mind.
Post number #526
Can't seem to repost YouTube here?

 

[Ian Gordon]

I don't know if you remember the post that Typoz posted about (President)Bernie Sanders some time ago. It has always stuck in my mind.
Post number #526
Can't seem to repost YouTube here?

Here you go. :)

I don't know why Ike had to set a two-term limit (I do know, it's because his party had been out of power for 20 years!), seems undemocratic if that's what the people want. Another Obama term would have been fine with me.

 

[Ian Gordon]

I haven't listened to it yet, but here's her latest about the election (August 30).

 

[Steve]

haven't listened to it yet, but here's her latest about the election (August 30).

Phew, thank goodness, I was just starting to get quite worried!

 

[Ian Gordon]

I haven't listened to it yet, but here's her latest about the election (August 30).

Sorry Steve, can’t get behind her. Not because of her near-impossible-seeming prediction, but 1) because she communicates directly not with just any spirit, but with God himself; 2) because that “God” is a masculine, completely transcendental deity (à la Abrahamic religions), rather than a Source of whom we are all co-creative parts or equals; and 3) that He/She/It gives a rat’s ass about this election. :)

The way the Sanders faithful will be well looked upon in "God"’s eyes, it’s like Sanders is Jesus Christ come again.

Oh sorry, I took this seriously for a minute. ;)