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  1. Neil

    Veganism

    By the way, I also think trying to impose veganism on all children is borderline child abuse.
  2. Neil

    Veganism

    Yeah no. Post the numbers and I will look up the link confirm. I am not doing the work for you. I don't know how many times people just put up a link and I try digging through only to waste my time. Post the numbers and I will confirm. You are making the claim.
  3. Neil

    Veganism

    This whole argument about what can be applied worldwide being used to say that we shouldn't meat makes no sense. If I say I get beef from a local farmer that is pastured raised on natural pasture, organic, etc, and then I am told that I shouldnt eat that since it won't scale up to worldwide...
  4. Neil

    Veganism

    It's called a fucking farm. I should go tell him to clear out the natural Pasture and plant crops instead. Cause that would have less impact on the life and environment there! Or I should tell the chicken farmer to stop rotating pasture from his chickens because we're just exploiting them and...
  5. Neil

    Veganism

    Please quote the numbers mentioned. I want to see explicit numbers on both sides. I guarantee it isn't there.
  6. Neil

    Veganism

    I think we are seeing the absurdity of treating all life with equal moral consideration. So what about all the insects fed by manure? How many insects die from cows grazing on grass compared to farming practices? It just seems horrendously complex with no good data to say one is better than the...
  7. Neil

    Veganism

    That's why I think insect consumption would be good. They don't suffer like cattle, they require far far less land and resources, and are highly nutritious too.
  8. Neil

    Veganism

    Seriously? This shows the moral hypocrisy of veganism. Somehow it's wrong to raise an animal well, take care of it, kill it as humanely as possible, be grateful, and use the whole animal, but it's somehow MORALLY SUPERIOR to kill life so long as it's unintentional, and it's morally superior to...
  9. Neil

    Veganism

    My breakfast was beef that came from local natural pasture with no pesticide use, thanks.
  10. Neil

    Veganism

    Umm, yeah, I get beef from steer that walk around munching on natural pasture. What "land for plants", pesticides, and insects killed do you speak of? Should tell the farmers to decimate the natural pasture and plant crops instead? How is that less impact?
  11. Neil

    Veganism

    Based on what evidence? Laird pointed out many things, and it seems quite clear that we don't have any good data to make a conclusion one way or another if we treat all life a morally equivalent.
  12. Neil

    Veganism

    The land was a field of grass! It wasn't used for anything! What impact was there? Some steer walk around in a field and then I eat them. What is the impact? Should I have cleared that 5 acre field to put in crops? How is that less impact than having the steer walk around eating?
  13. Neil

    Veganism

    More insects killed than having a steer walk around and eat grass on a natural pasture? And so what if there is not enough land to raise animals this way? That doesn't mean that we can't raise animals this way and consume them for food!! The argument seem to be that "oh you can't feed the WHOLE...
  14. Neil

    Veganism

    You need to learn how to read. My "hypothetical situation" is what LAIRD is claiming, that all life is morally equivalent.
  15. Neil

    Veganism

    No, our default position should not be that they do suffer because of the serious problems that premise causes as I pointed out, and from the fact that they simply don't have the brain/CNS to carry out the complex cognitions that we do. Why should I have a default position of something that...
  16. Neil

    Veganism

    If I am eating beef, I am going to reduce calories consumed from plant products, and since plant products kill more overall life and all life is morally equivalent, a diet of beef and plants would kill less overall life than a purely vegan diet since less plants are consumed. Do you need help...
  17. Neil

    Veganism

    This is a crock of shit. Accept that I don't want to change? Laird is the one that hasn't budged an inch on any of this while I have admitted there are ethical concerns and offered eating insects as an alternative to eating higher life forms if one is concerned with ethics. Maybe you should have...
  18. Neil

    Veganism

    You want evidence that pesticides kill insects? You don't "reach a premise;" a premise in a statement that is accepted to construct an argument. I was showing the consequences of Laird's hypothesis that all life suffers equally. I never said I accepted the premise as true. That's irrelevant...
  19. Neil

    Veganism

    In fact, given the premise that all life (plants, animals, and insects) suffer just like us, it is quite clear that eating ruminants such as steers when raised in natural conditions is far ethically superior to a vegan or even fruitarian diet: 1. More insects are killed in farming orchards even...
  20. Neil

    Veganism

    What evidence is there that insects suffer? That religions believe in it isn't evidence. What evidence is there that they are "just like us"? What evidence is there that they value their lives? We need evidence, not proclamations since I see no reason to think this to be true. For sake of...
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