Mod+ 260. MIAMI ATTORNEY REY HERNANDEZ SUPPORTS UFO CONTACTEES

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by John Maguire, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. Alex

    Alex New

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    totally agree... the evidence for this is undeniable.

    Great stuff! thx. I kinda agree, but am not sure about all of this. re:
    - rules/order -- yea, but I suspect they might be a lot different than what we imagine... the dogs analogy comes to mind again.
    - designer -- I favor the idea/metaphor that we're all co-creators/designers and that our idea of linear time is mistaken.
    - spirit communication -- I agree it comes from somewhere, but maybe their level is just as messed up as ours... maybe they are a level 3 of 100.
    - re list of experiences -- agreed there is a strangeness in the fact that the aliens don't land on the White House lawn, but some of the other things you mentioned do occur and get dismissed. so, the whole mess is hard to figure :)
    - someone is deciding -- I agree that at a human level there are some folks who are playing the power/manipulation game at a level far beyond what any of us imagine. I suspect that this might be happening at some other levels as well. I also suspect that at another level this all looks like maya/illusion/silliness.

    thx again for tackling this untackleable stuff with me :)
     
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  2. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    Huh? What is strange about that? It makes perfect sense. And even if ETs are using physical crafts it also makes sense that we wouldn't have any physical evidence. What humans know is still miniscule yet even that is allowing for (still very basic) cloaking tech.
     
  3. Alan Amsberg

    Alan Amsberg New

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    You are absolutely right. Bad example.

    My point is this: I think this paranormal stuff is regulated. All of it. The best example is probably the spirit world example. People are different. You can't get a room full of people to agree on anything. There are always some who go their own way. There are people who break the rules whatever the rules are. Yet, in spirit communication there are some things that never happen. There are no lottery numbers. Meaningful things may be said to individuals but they are always personal tidbits never blockbuster revelations. Mediums can never communicate like you can with another person in the room. Why not? Surely some of these people broke the rules in their lifetimes. Surely Grandma knows that winning the lottery would help me out. Why doesn't she help me win the lottery? What makes spirit communication the way it is? My answer is that it is regulated.

    Look at the whole of the paranormal stuff. It never gets anywhere. Why is that? I know all the usual answers. Lack of funding etc. I don't buy that. To me the answer is that this stuff isn't meant to be solved. It is meant to be elusive. To me that means that there is an intelligence there keeping all of this just out of reach. I think that intelligence is God just because it seems to me that holding it all together would require a God (from a logistics point of view).

    There is one thing though that I think is getting somewhere and that is the NDE. That is starting to break through into the mainstream. Not sure what that means.
     
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  4. Alan Amsberg

    Alan Amsberg New

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    I agree with the linear time thing but I don't buy this idea that we are somehow co-creators or that our intentions are influencing reality.

    The reason why is details. How would this work technically? How can I "influence reality" and produce a reality that makes sense when there are at least 7 billion other influencers? Where is my infrastructure for influencing reality?

    For example, I work as a database developer. Let's say I make a very simple contacts database of names and addresses. Very simple. I can produce it in 2 minutes. But, take a minute to consider that there is a heck of a lot of infrastructure behind making that 2 minute database.
    -There are 100 engineers at the database company who having been working on the database for 25 years.
    -The database runs on an Apple Mac. There are thousands of engineers at Apple making the OS X software that makes that possible.
    -Then there are the thousands of engineers at Intel who are making the chips.
    -Let's not forget the supplier of raw materials and this goes all the way back to the guy who mines the ore out of the ground.

    So, my point is that there is something out there that has all of this covered for the paranormal realm. I don't have all of this stuff covered.

    Another good example. Remote viewers. If we assume there is something to this then let us consider the logistics. When people think about this they think Ingo Swann just kind of pops out of his body and can see things in other places. Great. How does that work? How does he find the other places? Why doesn't he get lost? What points of navigation does he have? Ingo just sees it. To me the only way that is possible is if he is being spoon fed the information by an intelligence. It is absurd to think that Ingo can just have a "magical talent" for this.
     
  5. Alan Amsberg

    Alan Amsberg New

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    I agree. Was a bad example.
     
  6. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    To me, it seems clear that it's just that currently most people aren't "tuned into those frequencies". It's not being kept out of reach. If it was there wouldn't be those of us who do access different "paranormal" areas.
     
  7. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    You can certainly choose not to "buy it" - however it is the way it is.

    I don't expect you to simply accept that but I can also share that the type of intellecting you're doing about it will not lead you to the knowing you crave. You are falling into the common trap of seeing the physical as primary and then applying physical oriented parameters to larger areas.

    Explaining this stuff in a way that doesn't lead to one misconception or another is very difficult. What I will state is: the you that you think you are is only one aspect of the you that you actually are. I'll also add that linear time is an aspect of physical frameworks. It is not primary.

    In allowing yourself to hold a genuine openness to those two pieces of info you'll let your attention move in different ways and directions. The intellecting you do will be in the ballpark that the game is being played in and you'll most likely find yourself accessing info in ways other than intellectual. I too work doing DB and other programming and I will tell you that the "rationo-logical" approach that is so key in that work is not at all one that will lead to knowledge in that areas we are discussing here.

    To take another approach, here's a shortcut of sorts - the intelligence that you have an inkling of is that primary you that I refer to.
     
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  8. Alan Amsberg

    Alan Amsberg New

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    Thanks for this. To be honest, I know it already (that the intellecting I am doing will not lead to the knowing I crave) but I have not been very good at doing it yet or incorporating it into my life. Recently I have been taking some meditation classes and I am thinking of visiting a local Quaker meeting. These are my first steps in that direction.
     
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  9. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I am definitely not being flippant, but how do you know this?

    David
     
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  10. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    I'll offer that it might be more to your benefit to focus on how you can come to know it yourself.
     
  11. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    ;;/? Yeah, beginning (or even continuing) the doing/incorporating can sometimes be a hurdle. In your favor is that you are aware of and wanting to explore those avenues. This may come across as trite but have fun with it. At least for me, when I get too serious I tend to start closing down those avenues and letting the rational mind take charge. As I read once "the rational mind is a great friend but a poor taskmaster."
     
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  12. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Well possibly I do - I just thought you would expand on your observation a bit!

    David
     
  13. Alan Amsberg

    Alan Amsberg New

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    Actually, one of the hurdles is getting past "going public". Some examples:
    -This sort of stuff makes my family feel uncomfortable so they don't want to talk about it.
    -My arrival at this point in my life (over 5 years) has also involved having psychosis in 2009 and some residuals of that. So that is another "taboo" subject mixed in with this.
    -The problem is worse with some friends (some are OK). For example, there is a group of friends who are basically drinking buddies. So is tricky to tell them - "Hey, back in 2009 I was in a mental hospital because I thought about UFOs too much (maybe, bit more complicated than that) and then I discovered it was God. While I am sane now I still wonder if God has intervened in my life and I am vaguely thinking of becoming a Quaker because Quakers are cool though I am not sure about their peace testimony (still working that out - I am sympathetic to it but not sure I can sign up 100%). Oh, and by the way, I have the Quakers as a client since February and I kind of wonder if that is a coincidence."

    Part of me wants to come 100% out of the closet but I don't also want to be thought of as the "mentally ill UFO nut". Still, probably wouldn't be that bad... Anyway. That's enough moaning!
     
  14. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    My advice is - don't. There is no benefit in it and more often than not it will mean even more hurdles for you. There's strong reasons why most ancient religious/spiritual traditions advise one to "pray in secret." Trust yourself. In this case that means share what and when you feel "positively" prompted to do so.
     
  15. Alan Amsberg

    Alan Amsberg New

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    An interesting point of view. This stuff is important to me. It now forms an important part of my world view. I feel it is important. I want to be honest about that. Obviously I am not going to proffer such information to my acquaintances (and certainly not to clients!) but among good friends I would like to share. That said, hasn't really gone well when I have done it...(mixed bag actually - jury is out on that). Anyway. Interesting to hear your point of view.
     
  16. Saiko

    Saiko Member

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    I'd say "check yourself." It's easy to think one is "sharing" when there's an element of seeking acceptance and/or validation from others. Like I said though - trust yourself.
     
  17. Matt²

    Matt² New

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    It's encouraging Rey Hernandez is taking the initiative and has the drive to carry a torch for a pervasive global phenomena that seems to have less bearers every year.

    Rey Hernandez is also fortunate his experiences have been unclouded and positive. Which seems to be hinged on whether the person is an experiencer or abductee. Experiencers are able to at least somewhat rationalize the strangeness because their memories are more intact. Abductees have a life that is a series of punctuated interruptions and they may have some fleeting memories of something or not put it together until they are midlife. Regardless, they are left with a nagging feeling something has occurred their entire life, but still have almost no reference point to really build any framework to even begin to understand it.

    When Rey discusses these individuals turning a blind eye and that these persons just need to step forward. Well there's a flip side where there are those that have stepped forward, but run into the human side of the phenomena where those who advertise support and are supposed to be helping, have lost touch with the research and questioning from the rise in fame and financial gain.

    Rey mentioned a researcher I have had direct contact with and was confronted with the frustrating dilemma above. So, it's not the skipping hand in hand through the roses with some so called researcher and constructive answers materialize. It can be a confusing and distressing experience all around, so much so it's not worth the hassles and disappointment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2014
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  18. Alex

    Alex New

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    Interesting perspective. I'm not an experiencer but from the outside looking in it seems like the huge mismatch between what these experiencer have experienced and the ordained/accepted cultural acceptance of it make the situation really difficult. Cultural myths may be myths but they're the terra firma most others are standing on.
     
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  19. Matt²

    Matt² New

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    It's not just a mismatch Alex, it's a confusing combination of deeply terrifying denial, anthropomorphic geocentrism, scientific egomania with delusions of grandeur, and the entire phenomena has been intentionally obfuscated with decades of enormous and intensive propaganda and misinformation. In the 50s this was a subject allotted serious consideration. Now it's a train wreck.

    And experiencers are very different from abductees, unless you are insinuating you are an abductee.

    IMO the majority of myths, religions, ideologies are based on and tie directly to this phenomena in someway fundamentally. However, over the eons have either changed and become unrecognizable or these cultural frameworks have just been one facet of a very ancient transitioning control system supplanted, but not obviously still utilized, by the financial control stage. Yet still a symbiotic relationship with the same goals.

    I think any answers are likely an impossibility for any foreseeable future and, even if provided, would probably be unimaginably incomprehensible at humanities current societal morass and level of consciousness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
  20. Alex

    Alex New

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    I hear ya.
     

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