Mod+ 264. JACK HUNTER ON PARANTHROPOLOGY, PARAPSCYHOLOGY AND SPIRIT COMMUNICATION

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Sciborg_S_Patel

#21
To answer the question - experience is paramount as the evidence from our qualitative experience is enough to gut materialism of any prominence, as one can see by reading Clifton's Empirical Case Against Materialism.

From there, and going into anthropology, I do think it's a shame that the possibility of Psi among "primitive" cultures is ignored. I wonder if this is in part a reactionary defense of colonialism - after all it fees like it's only now that we're seeing more exploration of Eastern philosophy in Western academia. (Credit to Bruce Greyson who noted the logic of Nagarjuna when discussing NDEs.) After all, if these cultures have nothing to add to our knowledge it becomes more acceptable that they've been wiped out (Native American genocide) or diminished (pre-Buddhist Nepal). And in the present we'd have to ask whether bulldozing away these cultures in the name of "progress" would be in our best interest if we're really interested in understanding how the world works.

But I think Jim's comment about how mediumship should be studied by physics without the assumption that it's all fake gets to a deeper psychological insight. If - and it's admittedly a BIG IF - we have to accept whole vistas of reality accessible only via qualitative (ritualistic, meditative, etc) methods then suddenly the sum of what we know about reality is miniscule. The criticisms that legitimate skeptics (as opposed to materialist cults like JREF & CSICOP) like myself have raised - which have existed at least since the materialist Democritus realized sensory aspects of nature would remain unexplained [if everything is just mindless matter] - could no longer be ignored.

Naturally the aforementioned pseudoskeptical cults can't have that, given their social engineering goals of ridding the world of anything that could hint at God. Hopefully the notion of an immaterialistic science can take root and we can genuinely seek to understand what is and is not real.

Of course as we live our lives some times we have to take a chance of things, like a healing ritual can aid us in repairing physical/mental health. People shouldn't be dissuaded from such reality gambles just because of the shaming Mean Girls style tactics of the pseudoskeptics.
 
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#22
So interesting to here Jack talk. Great you managed this Alex ... I liked this where he says ... I think is that there seems to be something going on (laughing). There’s something that human-beings are kind of tapping into, or at least trying to tap into. Which suggests, again…there’s something going on.

Just saw in the October Paranthropology that David Bohm (quantum physics foundations expert - as many may know) is covered a lot. Bohm says this in his book "Thought as a System" ...

The idea, then, is that space is mostly full, and that matter is a small ripple on it. You can make a very strong case for that according to modern physics. Similarly, we could say that whatever is behind the mind - the consciousness, or whatever you want to call it - is a vast stream; and on the surface are ripples which are thought. This seems to be an analogy. Even when we talk of things being "here", they are really small ripples on some vast energy which is circulating. The only reason that this energy doesn’t show up is because matter and light go right through it without deflecting. What we experience is empty space. But it may also be regarded as the fullness of space, which is the ground of all existence. Matter is, then, a small variation on this ground."

Physics-wise space kind of "holds up" elementary particles in that mass, in particular, depends on space (e.g. the Higgs field pervades - is part of space - and gives mass to particles). So saying ... "Matter is, then, a small variation on this ground" is right. By seeing all matter (and mind) then as a part of space, not as objects in space (apart from space) is counterintuitive but right.

Bohm also said this about intuition (same book), which links with the above ... Now, maybe mind is another "side" of that same thing - that which we call energy on one side is mind on the other side. That is, energy is pervaded with a kind of intelligence, out of which perhaps insight comes, or deeper perceptions of truth. That's the suggestion.

So there's an energy in space but with so much more to it ... mass giving properties, the source, in some respects, of intuition, a medium for parapsychological phenomena (Bohm knew of psi-stuff), the ground and sustainer of all reality. It's very responsive, mind-like ... etc. and it's in us not the other way around.

I may have said all this before here but maybe from his ideas come this new paradigm, re what Jack said ... Hypotheses in Search of Paradigm.
this is quite amazing... thx for sharing... Bohm is a very deep thinker.

on the other hand, these insights take us so far beyond "physics/science" that I'm not sure talking about it in a rational/logical/scientific way makes a whole lot of sense. Any good mystic might be able to tell us as much or more.
 
#23
on the other hand, these insights take us so far beyond "physics/science" that I'm not sure talking about it in a rational/logical/scientific way makes a whole lot of sense. Any good mystic might be able to tell us as much or more.
Thanks for reply ... Just on this ... Bohm's biographer David Peat said Bohm kind of felt Nature in his body ... Bohm believed that the laws of physics were contained within his physical body. On occasion he experienced this directly. Once when working on an equation he felt a strong sensation within his body and, as he continued to work, a counter sensation. These sensations appeared to correspond directly to the mathematics he was writing down.

(Reminds me of holographic ideas where the whole is contained in every thing.) From The Bohm Documentary under Reflections on Bohm ... Little Sensations section ... http://thebohmdocumentary.org/ so this type of insight leads to actual physics getting known by the experiencer/physicist.

In general, though, one specific kind of insight a physicist might have but other talented people (inc. mystics) get insights in a different form? Still this "tapping into something" business. :)
 
#24
Thanks for reply ... Just on this ... Bohm's biographer David Peat said Bohm kind of felt Nature in his body ... Bohm believed that the laws of physics were contained within his physical body. On occasion he experienced this directly. Once when working on an equation he felt a strong sensation within his body and, as he continued to work, a counter sensation. These sensations appeared to correspond directly to the mathematics he was writing down.

(Reminds me of holographic ideas where the whole is contained in every thing.) From The Bohm Documentary under Reflections on Bohm ... Little Sensations section ... http://thebohmdocumentary.org/ so this type of insight leads to actual physics getting known by the experiencer/physicist.

In general, though, one specific kind of insight a physicist might have but other talented people (inc. mystics) get insights in a different form? Still this "tapping into something" business. :)
Its probably well known by this group, David Bohm had a longstanding relationship with Jiddu Krisnamurti and together produced videos of discussions and a book titled 'The Ending of Time'. Although the conversations were of a mutual nature. My take was Krisnamurti was always the one who clarified what was being analysed and had a tremendous impact on shaping Bohms ideas not related to theoretical physics. I have 'Systems of Thought' and it always struck me as based on a continuation of these earlier discussions. IThis book was taken was from a period of discussions at the Krishnamurti Foundation in Ojai CA one year after Krishnamurti's passing. http://bohmkrishnamurti.com/
Also to add a counter point: David Peat believed Bohm's philosophy somewhat paralleled Krishnamurti's but diverged along several paths. http://www.fdavidpeat.com/interviews/wie.htm
 
#25
this is quite amazing... thx for sharing... Bohm is a very deep thinker.

on the other hand, these insights take us so far beyond "physics/science" that I'm not sure talking about it in a rational/logical/scientific way makes a whole lot of sense. Any good mystic might be able to tell us as much or more.
It may not mean anything but sadly David Bohm suffered from depression in the later years of his life, that required medical interventions. He didn't have an easy life in his earlier years and reportedly suffered from depression which apparently returned. Still a giant among physicists and genius at creative thinking.
 
#26
Its probably well known by this group, David Bohm had a longstanding relationship with Jiddu Krisnamurti and together produced videos of discussions and a book titled 'The Ending of Time'. Although the conversations were of a mutual nature. My take was Krisnamurti was always the one who clarified what was being analysed and had a tremendous impact on shaping Bohms ideas not related to theoretical physics. I have 'Systems of Thought' and it always struck me as based on a continuation of these earlier discussions. IThis book was taken was from a period of discussions at the Krishnamurti Foundation in Ojai CA one year after Krishnamurti's passing. http://bohmkrishnamurti.com/
Also to add a counter point: David Peat believed Bohm's philosophy somewhat paralleled Krishnamurti's but diverged along several paths. http://www.fdavidpeat.com/interviews/wie.htm
Thanks, and for the links, I knew a little of his relationship with Krishnamurti. And did you mean the "Thought as a System" book?

Overall my impression (hesitant) is that the psi/science/intuition interface and psi/art (in all forms)/intuition interface and psi/X/intuition interface (where X can be more stuff) is a fruitful one to pursue. That's if this "intuition tapping into something outer" thing is right. Guess there has to be psi in some form.
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#29
It may not mean anything but sadly David Bohm suffered from depression in the later years of his life, that required medical interventions. He didn't have an easy life in his earlier years and reportedly suffered from depression which apparently returned. Still a giant among physicists and genius at creative thinking.
I think it's inescapable that despite materialism being off when looked at logically there is nevertheless an anchoring of the mind to the conditions and chemicals of the brain.

Why I always keep the Gnostic implications in mind, though not necessarily the whole Archons overseeing a prison type stuff. Yet we are confronted with what looks like a reality where materialism *seems* - at least initially - to be correct.
 
#30
Half of anthropology is about the criticism of anthropology, why our understanding is flawed. Anthropologists are like dogs chasing their own tails. It is supposed to study culture which is too big a word. I guess it provides space to study something like the paranormal. It all boils down to who runs the research in a given department. All specific conceptualizations and theories end up producing perfect replicas of certain world views.

They usually poke at your research so that you are making use of studies of the masters of anthropology and build on it. You are given a starting point. The ignition of wisdom is the department and its literature, your wits should take you wherever, afterwards. to study something like "the other side of perception", you have to contextualize it so that at least all sceptical eyes have to admit they can follow your arguments to the end. You either show them miracles or your content has exotic natives.

And, if you want to break free, you have to reserve half your words to why anthropology is flawed which has been done a thousand times in the name of political correctness, cosmopolitanism and moral etiquette.

Strauss said he detested this monoculture. Those who say "we are the world" are eating up all like pacman.

I am 10 years behind, so maybe I am wrong and it is a rose garden these days..
 
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