Ian Thompson
Member
Spiritually Transformative Experiences (STE)What is a STE? I have never heard of that initialism.
Spiritually Transformative Experiences (STE)What is a STE? I have never heard of that initialism.
Now, here, Bertha, is where you might get in trouble with Alex, posting this on a show thread where he can see it.Man what a dick. Last time I try having an honest discussion with a Sam Harris acolyte douche bag.
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/forum-rules-please-read-before-posting.4/Here are some general guidelines to give you an idea of where we're coming from:
1) Respect each other... remember there's a real person on the other end of that post.
Pffft. Other than being a hypocrite regarding your ethics. Apparently there is nothing wrong with being a hypocrite. Doesn't sound like someone with much ethical integrity to me.That's a really interesting way of looking at it. For you, the materialist who lives selfishly and greedily has more integrity than the materialist who inconsistently behaves likes a caring and decent person.
I disagree with you on the two points though. I don't think greed and selfishness follow from materialism, and I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with having some inconsistencies and tensions with regard to your metaphysical beliefs and everyday ethical behavior. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world if somebody thinks in the study that libertarian free will is impossible, but then goes on believing in it in their everyday life.
Other than being a hypocrite regarding your ethics. You see nothing wrong with being a hypocrite? Doesn't sound like someone with much ethical integrity to me.
My Best,
Bertha
I find Dominic's entire argument absurd. Of course human beings base their ethical actions on their belief systems which are themselves based on human knowledge. Can you imagine, for example, if Dominic's ridiculous idea of ethics applied to the Allied troops landing at Omaha beach? Whereas each of the soldiers, instead of basing their ethical human sacrifice on the knowledge they were fighting the Nazis, and were soldiers in an organized army, decided to what? sacrifice themselves based on the breakfast they ate in the morning, or that the sand happened to not be the right color? Or decided they weren't going to fight because they just didn't have that warm fuzzy feeling at day break? What intellectual hogwash.I think the bigger point that Dominic ignores is not everyone is going to make a separation between their metaphysics and their ethics. You see hints of this already, for example after the gang-rapes in India some people excused the rapists, said it was biological determinism from pent up sexual frustration. Similar arguments can be found with arguments for legalizing "moderate" child pornography.
That's just individual criminals and small groups. When you apply the materialist paradigm to the behavior of large bodies like corporations and governments, that's when the utopian pipe dreams of pseudoskeptics is really threatened.
Man it's so hard to give a Frack about these guys. They come on here, and their only agenda is to spit in your face.Agreed.
When you pull away the condescension, word twisting, and shaming tactics most catechisms of the materialist cults fall apart.
You are like an Einstein!I don't think greed and selfishness follow from materialism, and I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with having some inconsistencies and tensions with regard to your metaphysical beliefs and everyday ethical behavior. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world if somebody thinks in the study that libertarian free will is impossible, but then goes on believing in it in their everyday life.
Very good description of what he is engaged in here. Thanks. Yes, you're correct. I don't know how Alex maintains his cool- but damn, these arrogant know-it-all X&*&^% love to play you.Remember cursing isn't allowed. But yeah, the veneer of fake politeness while twisting words is pretty gross.
It's like saying: you can have ethics without really having ethics! It's ridiculous.You are like an Einstein!
That is a perfect description for a Theory of Moral Relativity.
This all comes back to something I said to Sciborg a long time ago. I suggested that one of the big differences between us is that his philosophy is more in the ancient Greek tradition and mine is more in the modern tradition (i.e. following Hume).
I'm sure there are some exceptions here, but on the ancient view your ethics and your metaphysics should be consistent and in harmony. The modern view says that perhaps it's just the human condition that this harmony is not possible. It's kind of tragic in a way, but that's just the way it is. So for example, we may believe that metaphysically objective values and libertarian free will are unreal, and yet still we find it impossible to live this philosophy, simply because of the kind of animals we are.
Anyway, that's my take on it. And by the way I haven't said whether I myself believe in objective values or libertarian free will. To be honest, I don't have a clue whether they exist or not. Let the philosophers argue about that as they have been doing for thousands of years.
Very good description of what he is engaged in here. Thanks. Yes, you're correct. I don't know how Alex maintains his cool- but damn, these arrogant know-it-all X&*&^% love to play you.
My Best,
Bertha
I think the bigger point that Dominic ignores is not everyone is going to make a separation between their metaphysics and their ethics. You see hints of this already, for example after the gang-rapes in India some people excused the rapists, said it was biological determinism from pent up sexual frustration. Similar arguments can be found with arguments for legalizing "moderate" child pornography.
That's just individual criminals and small groups. When you apply the materialist paradigm to the behavior of large bodies like corporations and governments, that's when the utopian pipe dreams of pseudoskeptics is really threatened.
Yes, we've been over all this before. You think that famous scientists and philosophers are able to separate their metaphysical beliefs from their everyday ethical behavior, whereas the masses are somehow less able to do this. I disagree. I think most people are able to do this. But it's really an empirical question, and I could be wrong.
I doubt logic will work with Dominic here Patel, but excellent point!If people can separate metaphysical beliefs from ethics, then the moral impetus of groups like the New Atheists pushing a materialist paradigm in order to negate religion goes out the window.
If people can separate metaphysical beliefs from ethics, then the moral impetus of groups like the New Atheists pushing a materialist paradigm in order to negate religion goes out the window.