Mod+ 280. KEN JORDAN OF REALITY SANDWICH ON CONSCIOUSNESS CULTURE

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. Vault313

    Vault313 New

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    Yes, I agree. You hear it very often from experiencers that there are no words or human constructs to describe aspects of their experience, so they are forced to give close approximations that are still not really anything like what they experienced.
     
  2. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Right - we also ended up discussing over population on another thread, and I was a bit surprised that you chose to argue from a totally materialistic standpoint. I mean I am open to all sorts of possible alternative realities that could be relevant, but from a totally materialistic point of view, I think overpopulation is a problem.

    One possibility I do sometimes wonder about, is if each individual shifts slowly from reality to reality as they get older - so that another shift might change reality totally. Suppose for example successive realities had larger and larger land surfaces. At first that sounds impossible, but each reality would have a consistent past that would include a history where that larger land surface was discovered.
    The problem is, this tends to push me into the idea - which might be valid - that life is a sort of virtual reality game. I mean, try loving some of the worst offenders - ISIS executioners, politicians that would like to start a war, child molesters, etc. I'm not even sure I would know how to begin that process.
    Well if it isn't a threat, I think that has to be a consequence of something non-material.
    I agree totally, and I think the continuance of this and other areas of junk science makes me worry just how much of modern science is actually believable.
    Yes but can we use that as a guiding principle?
    Agreed - computer models are a way of recycling prejudices so they look like results!
    Yes, but we don't always have the luxury to assume our understanding is too limited for us to act.

    David
     
  3. Vault313

    Vault313 New

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    First, I do think that of all theories for life beyond the physical, virtual reality of sorts seems to strike a cord with me. Second, this points out a huge sticking point with not only myself, but everyone else I've discussed this with and I would imagine any human being with even a semblance of compassion.

    Forgiveness in the face of the truly horrifying is probably one of the single most difficult acts for us to make. I concede, "love one another" seemingly becomes a naive joke in light of monsters such as ISIS, child molesters, serial killers, etc.

    HOWEVER, if I can expand my consciousness to view this life as one small aspect of a much much larger whole, then these things become something different than how we view them from this earthly perspective. For if we are, in fact, eternal beings and this lifetime is but the tiniest blip in our existence, then these experiences become something both more and less than how we view them from here.

    More because these experiences aren't random chance events that are altogether meaningless, they have great significance toward our evolution of consciousness. And less because they are so very temporary, and while it may hurt us here, in the grand scheme of things, we are just fine. No real physical harm done and our consciousness can use these experiences as a means to further expand and evolve.

    So it requires a duality in thinking. It's horrible, but it isn't. It's permanent (as in possible loss of life) but temporary (your consciousness survives). It's meaningless, it's meaningful. Perhaps this is why the spiritual can often seem so incompatible with the physical. What we experience here is very real to us. It feels horrible when we are in it. And to try to stretch our minds out to view it in a different light is incredibly challenging. Maybe that is why this spiritual work is so important, precisely because how difficult it is.
     
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  4. Ian Gordon

    Ian Gordon Ninshub Member

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    Delightful interview, Alex.
     

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