Mod+ 280. KEN JORDAN OF REALITY SANDWICH ON CONSCIOUSNESS CULTURE

#61
Another problem is that people try to make sense of the afterlife by analogy to the physical universe. The afterlife is non-physical. There is no time and no distance, those are physical properties. You can't understand the afterlife by analogy to the physical universe.
Yes, I agree. You hear it very often from experiencers that there are no words or human constructs to describe aspects of their experience, so they are forced to give close approximations that are still not really anything like what they experienced.
 
#62
I'm sure I'm trying to revive a long dead thread here and attention is now focused elsewhere. However, I would make the point that any time I hear fear mongering, I start to tune out the message.

Fear mongering is a manipulation of the emotional drive that lies within all living things to survive. It shuts down the cortex, hence critical thinking, and before too long your spouting idiotic talking points that often have little basis in reality. The powers that be know this all too well. Which is why fear propaganda is so effective.

Moreover, if Mr. Jordan really is as "in tune" with the spiritual world as he claims, then why is it he is receiving vastly different messages from others who have "seen the other side"?

What I've found is that those who have had NDEs almost always come back with three distinct messages, over and over and over again. And that is one, there is no such thing as death, two love is the most important thing and three ALL IS WELL.
Right - we also ended up discussing over population on another thread, and I was a bit surprised that you chose to argue from a totally materialistic standpoint. I mean I am open to all sorts of possible alternative realities that could be relevant, but from a totally materialistic point of view, I think overpopulation is a problem.

One possibility I do sometimes wonder about, is if each individual shifts slowly from reality to reality as they get older - so that another shift might change reality totally. Suppose for example successive realities had larger and larger land surfaces. At first that sounds impossible, but each reality would have a consistent past that would include a history where that larger land surface was discovered.
Not that we should trash everything with reckless abandon, but that regardless of what our perception may be in this physical life on this physical planet, everything really is ok. There is nothing to fear. Loving one another as we wish to be loved, forgiveness and treating all things with respect are paramount. Everything else stems from this. If everyone were capable of behaving this way, everything else would take care of itself.
The problem is, this tends to push me into the idea - which might be valid - that life is a sort of virtual reality game. I mean, try loving some of the worst offenders - ISIS executioners, politicians that would like to start a war, child molesters, etc. I'm not even sure I would know how to begin that process.
Instead we are constantly bombarded with messages that humans are a scourge on the earth. We are a cancer. We are unimportant and a cosmic mistake. Our lives have no meaning, our universe has no meaning. What's the problem with the death of millions from starvation, war and disease when human life is meaningless...no, harmful.

I for one do not believe that overpopulation is a real threat. With the population density of New York City, the entire current population of humans on the earth could fit into the state of Texas.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/could-7-billion-people-live-in-a-texas-sized-city/
Well if it isn't a threat, I think that has to be a consequence of something non-material.
I also believe that "climate change" is pure unadulterated bullshit.
I agree totally, and I think the continuance of this and other areas of junk science makes me worry just how much of modern science is actually believable.
Everyone seems to forget that truth and reality are only correct in ones current time and space. We all seem to forget that each generation before us believed they were the pinnacle of human evolution and achievement. We look back now and snicker at how "stupid" or "misguided" these poor fools of old where. Never realizing that we too will come to also be known as the fools of old.
Yes but can we use that as a guiding principle?
The only truth is that no one knows what the future holds. The future is determined by a nearly infinite number of factors. We are kidding ourselves if we truly believe that a computer model can tell us the fate of our world, while relying on data from-at best-5500 years ago, on a planet that is ~4 billion years old and a species that is ~200,000 years old.
Agreed - computer models are a way of recycling prejudices so they look like results!
Are we so naive that we believe we truly understand our planet (much less universe) and who or what our species really is?
Yes, but we don't always have the luxury to assume our understanding is too limited for us to act.

David
 
#63
The problem is, this tends to push me into the idea - which might be valid - that life is a sort of virtual reality game. I mean, try loving some of the worst offenders - ISIS executioners, politicians that would like to start a war, child molesters, etc. I'm not even sure I would know how to begin that process.
First, I do think that of all theories for life beyond the physical, virtual reality of sorts seems to strike a cord with me. Second, this points out a huge sticking point with not only myself, but everyone else I've discussed this with and I would imagine any human being with even a semblance of compassion.

Forgiveness in the face of the truly horrifying is probably one of the single most difficult acts for us to make. I concede, "love one another" seemingly becomes a naive joke in light of monsters such as ISIS, child molesters, serial killers, etc.

HOWEVER, if I can expand my consciousness to view this life as one small aspect of a much much larger whole, then these things become something different than how we view them from this earthly perspective. For if we are, in fact, eternal beings and this lifetime is but the tiniest blip in our existence, then these experiences become something both more and less than how we view them from here.

More because these experiences aren't random chance events that are altogether meaningless, they have great significance toward our evolution of consciousness. And less because they are so very temporary, and while it may hurt us here, in the grand scheme of things, we are just fine. No real physical harm done and our consciousness can use these experiences as a means to further expand and evolve.

So it requires a duality in thinking. It's horrible, but it isn't. It's permanent (as in possible loss of life) but temporary (your consciousness survives). It's meaningless, it's meaningful. Perhaps this is why the spiritual can often seem so incompatible with the physical. What we experience here is very real to us. It feels horrible when we are in it. And to try to stretch our minds out to view it in a different light is incredibly challenging. Maybe that is why this spiritual work is so important, precisely because how difficult it is.
 
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