Max_B
Member
Ok, go ahead and keep claiming that a correlation was established with a phemomenon that was not even studied in the paper.
I will thanks, yes...
Ok, go ahead and keep claiming that a correlation was established with a phemomenon that was not even studied in the paper.
I will thanks, yes...
I guess the main reason for this suggestion is that that surge is very curious - and seems to occur about the time you might expect the separation to begin. However, note Max's contribution above - he thinks the experiments picked up human brain waves, and were simply flawed.
I think you and Max are talking past each other. He is saying that the fact that the rat signal resembled that of wakeful humans suggest electromagnetic contamination with the brainwaves of the experimenters (I think).And no evidence of NDEs, so no correlation with NDEs.
I think you and Max are talking past each other. He is saying that the fact that the rat signal resembled that of wakeful humans suggest electromagnetic contamination with the brainwaves of the experimenters (I think).
EEG signals are pretty weak anyway, and are presumably rat signals have even less energy.
The only 'correlation' with NDE's is the time after cardiac arrest, which is, I suppose about right.
David
I suspect the term 'correlation' was used rather vaguely.Either way there was no correlation with NDEs.
Isn't this only an issue because proponents have historically insisted that NDEs correlated with an absence of this type of activity?Either way there was no correlation with NDEs.
Excellent show Alex!
Isn't this only an issue because proponents have historically insisted that NDEs correlated with an absence of this type of activity?
I suspect the term 'correlation' was used rather vaguely.
David
It's an issue because claiming the brain activity in the mouse study is correlated with NDEs is wrong.
We do know, however, that there are NDEs that occur without this activity.
There are plenty of cases where this data doesn't match, but the largest category would be 25% of NDEs occur during general anesthesia, which Borjigin et al investigated and did not see this response. So if this brain activity is supposed to explain NDE, then why would we see NDEs during anesthesia without this brain activity?
You don't think that that type of activity could explain some NDEs?
Or to put it another way, is it realistic to think that there is one single explanation for all the various reports of these experiences?
I think it is worth putting all this into some context. The traditional idea of the brain is that the neurons are connected as a neural net, so that they perform a sort of statistical computation. This, of course doesn't attempt to explain why we experience anything as a result of such action.
However leaving that aside, there seems to be no reason at all to expect uncoordinated neural activity - caused for example by the build-up of glutamate - to 'compute' anything - the concept that this process would generate an NDE seems to me to be as crazy as if someone poured water into their computer and it suddenly computed Pi to 10000 decimal digits!
David
It's an issue because claiming the brain activity in the mouse study is correlated with NDEs is wrong.
We do know, however, that there are NDEs that occur without this activity.
There are plenty of cases where this data doesn't match, but the largest category would be 25% of NDEs occur during general anesthesia, which Borjigin et al investigated and did not see this response. So if this brain activity is supposed to explain NDE, then why would we see NDEs during anesthesia without this brain activity?
I think you're being too generous, Neil... I mean, no correlation is no correlation.I think there is a chance that it may play a role in at least some NDEs, but it certainly needs more research to attempt to answer the question. I find the results interesting, but skeptics are jumping to conclusions.
At this point, one single explanation doesn't seem likely, but who knows what we may discover if more research is devoted to this subject.
I think you're being too generous, Neil... I mean, no correlation is no correlation.
NDE science gets real murky real fast... past lives... parallels lives... simultaneous lives. I think we really gotta try and stuck to the best evidence. this kinda speculation doesn't make the cut.
Borjigin's rat study presented EEG data measured from each rat during wakefulness, anesthesia, and induced cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest was induced by injection whilst the rat was still anesthetized. Therefore the rat went into cardiac arrest whilst it was anesthetized.
I think it is worth putting all this into some context. The traditional idea of the brain is that the neurons are connected as a neural net, so that they perform a sort of statistical computation. This, of course doesn't attempt to explain why we experience anything as a result of such action.
However leaving that aside, there seems to be no reason at all to expect uncoordinated neural activity - caused for example by the build-up of glutamate - to 'compute' anything - the concept that this process would generate an NDE seems to me to be as crazy as if someone poured water into their computer and it suddenly computed Pi to 10000 decimal digits!
David