Another OBE study (this May)

#1
"This May, 2017, the International Academy of Consciousness (IAC) will be conducting eight experiments aimed at validating the Out-of-Body Experience as an objective phenomenon. The experiments, held in Miami, will be conducted in cooperation with an independent third-party scientific organization and will take place during IAC’s Projective Field Workshop. The IAC aims to increase public awareness of research on parapsychic phenomena and also to help people to develop their skills in this area."

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/03/prweb14142589.htm

PS- The term "parapsychic" always sounded dreadful to me, it conjures images of crystal balls and star patterned tapestry for some reason...
 
#2
"This May, 2017, the International Academy of Consciousness (IAC) will be conducting eight experiments aimed at validating the Out-of-Body Experience as an objective phenomenon. The experiments, held in Miami, will be conducted in cooperation with an independent third-party scientific organization and will take place during IAC’s Projective Field Workshop. The IAC aims to increase public awareness of research on parapsychic phenomena and also to help people to develop their skills in this area."

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/03/prweb14142589.htm

PS- The term "parapsychic" always sounded dreadful to me, it conjures images of crystal balls and star patterned tapestry for some reason...
Really wish there was more information on this and what the experiments will be.

I'm used to projectors giving the most tedious excuses for why they refuse to prove they're leaving their body.
 
#4
http://www.iacworld.org/iac-tedx-altered-states-consciousness-perception-reality/

IAC's Nanci Trivellato, MSc discusses how extraordinary altered states of consciousness have challenged her perception of reality and led her to apply the scientific spirit to study curious and potentially transformative phenomena like out-of-body experience, the vibrational state, psi phenomena. Whatever one may think of these experiences, they can have a positive effect on those who experience them and those who interact with them. That alone is a good enough reason to take a closer look.​


If we had an out-of-body experience (OBE) what would it bring to our lives? Motivated by her own personal experiences and her research of thousands of individuals who had similar phenomena, Nanci Trivellato, MSc in psychology and consciousness researcher, discusses the possible positive effects of OBEs for personal development and its ripples for society.

Nanci Trivellato, MSc in psychology, is an author, lecturer,and personal development coach who dedicates her career to consciousness research. Nanci is also a charter member of the International Academy of Consciousness and the Institute of Applied Consciousness Technologies.​
 
#5
UPDATE: After looking at the IAC website, I can't tell if their classes are about OBE technqiues so my criticism below might not apply to the IAC.

From the video ~6:00 :

I have also conducted several [studies] with results published, interesting results but no conclusive evidence yet.​

So why is her organization offering classes? She had a veridical OBE, I don't question that. But I do question the sale of OBE books, audio programs, and classes that don't routinely produce veridical OBE's. It seems to me they are a scam because the people buying them hope to be able to leave their body at will, travel to where ever they want, and bring back verifiable information to prove it. But the people selling the stuff know that is very very unlikely to happen. Veridical OBEs are mostly spontaneous or experienced by talented psychics, they are exceedingly rarely produced by techniques.

I would advise people who want to experience psychic phenomena to either keep a dream log or go to a Spiritualist church.
 
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#6
Really wish there was more information on this and what the experiments will be.

I'm used to projectors giving the most tedious excuses for why they refuse to prove they're leaving their body.
It said there would be a locked room with a target inside? But somehow I think if people were able to see hidden secret realtime targets during OBE's, we would have heard about it by now.
 
#8
Really wish there was more information on this and what the experiments will be.

I'm used to projectors giving the most tedious excuses for why they refuse to prove they're leaving their body.
Why don't you elaborate on that? Remember, it is OK to be sceptical about anything here, provided you do so honestly and openly, and preferably debate rather than just quip. Please don't just say that you are used to something - give examples of what you are talking about!

Do you think OOBE's are:

a) Made up?

b) Something happens that is more like a dream?

c) They are real?

d) OOB's are real in NDE's but not otherwise.

David
 
#9
Why don't you elaborate on that? Remember, it is OK to be sceptical about anything here, provided you do so honestly and openly, and preferably debate rather than just quip. Please don't just say that you are used to something - give examples of what you are talking about!

Do you think OOBE's are:

a) Made up?

b) Something happens that is more like a dream?

c) They are real?

d) OOB's are real in NDE's but not otherwise.

David
There have been projectors who when asked to prove they can leave their bodies they often say one of these two things, the other side wont allow me to do so or the government has warned me not to. Specifically I remember (my memory is not great so don't quote me on this) Robert Bruce had said the second here and maybe also Thomas Campbell.

I am a frequent OBE explorer, however things are often a LOT weirder than just popping out of my body and sitting in my totally normal room. That happens a minority of the time, more often I pop out and I'm in a different house, or the layout is different, or I'm in a house I've lived in previously or not in a house at all.

I had said that second line because I found it surprising that there was a group of OBE practitioners who are actually willing to be tested, which is the opposite of my experience. I'd love to prove it happens and its all real which is why I've been doing it twice a week for the last 3 years. I don't disbelieve in it, but I think its much more tangled a phenomenon than it would appear at first glance.
 
#10
Author Michael Grosso (Skeptiko interview thread here) recently shared a very interesting experience involving an acquaintance of his who claimed to have visited him in his home, and left physical evidence of the visit:

An Out-of-Body Night Visit From a Lady

I once made the acquaintance of a student of anthropology, Mrs. E.S. of Belleville, N. J. More than once she experienced being out of her body, she told me, for instance, during her second childbirth. Mrs. S. didn't claim much control starting her out-of-body flights. But once they had begun, she had control over where she went.

I casually suggested that she try "visiting" me in her out-of-body state. Nothing more was said of the matter. I certainly didn't expect anything to happen. I was wrong.

Within a few weeks, the following occurred. First, however, I need to say that at that time I had begun playing the flute; in the morning I liked to practice for about an hour. A music stand stood by a large bookcase in the living room. I deliberately kept the stand in the same spot, so I was puzzled one morning when I woke up, went for my flute but found the stand right smack in the middle of the living room. I had no idea how it got there; no one else was in the house nor had I received any visitors the night before. I was puzzled for a moment but assumed I unconsciously moved the stand myself.

Within an hour, I received a telephone call from Mrs. S. Without my mentioning the music stand, she recounted the following. The night before—it was around midnight—she found herself out of her body and decided to try to "visit" me. She did this merely by concentrating her attention; suddenly she found herself observing me reading in the kitchen. (I was, in fact, reading in the kitchen at that time.) My out-of-body guest hovered nearby but was unable to make any impression on me.

She wondered how she could leave her mark. After straying through the house, feeling a bit frustrated, she came upon the music stand and took hold of it with her out-of-body “hands," appearing to herself to succeed in moving it to the center of the living room. She then returned to her vacated body in Belleville.

Here we have at least a remarkable chain of coincidences. On that morning, a skeptic could say, I unwittingly moved my music stand. Mrs. S. hallucinated paying me a visit, coincidentally noting just what I was doing at the time, and coincidentally imagining she moved the music stand I unwittingly moved.

The alternative to coincidence is to say that somehow she actually did "leave" her body and was able to displace a physical object in my room. The story is one of many reported out-of-body flights; I cite it because I was an eyewitness to a displaced metal music stand weighing (with music sheets) over two pounds. What to make of it? Did Mrs. S.—and can people—really "leave" the body? And while out roam around in space and move physical objects?
Doug
 
#11
Why don't you elaborate on that? Remember, it is OK to be sceptical about anything here, provided you do so honestly and openly, and preferably debate rather than just quip. Please don't just say that you are used to something - give examples of what you are talking about!

Do you think OOBE's are:

a) Made up?

b) Something happens that is more like a dream?

c) They are real?

d) OOB's are real in NDE's but not otherwise.

David
All of the above excluding the last three words in choice d.

And choice e: some are due to clairvoyance.
 
#12
Why don't you elaborate on that? Remember, it is OK to be sceptical about anything here, provided you do so honestly and openly, and preferably debate rather than just quip. Please don't just say that you are used to something - give examples of what you are talking about!

Do you think OOBE's are:

a) Made up?

b) Something happens that is more like a dream?

c) They are real?

d) OOB's are real in NDE's but not otherwise.

David
I'm going with C and, as Jim said, D excluding the last 3 words.
I'm particularly certain about the NDE OOBs being real. For example:

Critical care physician Laurin Bellg, in Appleton, Wisconsin, headed up the team that was treating a chronic alcoholic who had had a cardiac arrest, a patient she called Howard in her recent book Near Death in the ICU (Bellg, 2015). She administered magnesium to him, but he also needed to be defibrillated. Only after four attempts did he once again show a normal heart rhythm, even though he still had no pulse. Apparently, a portion of his intestines had been removed 2 days earlier because, as a result of his alcoholism, the blood vessels had become diseased and occluded. The operation had been successful, but afterward he began having withdrawal
symptoms.

Following resuscitation, he was placed on a ventilator, and it was not until 5 days later that he was sufficiently recovered to begin to be weaned off of it. Meanwhile, on the ventilator and thus unable to talk, he had tried to convey something about an NDE but got no further than spelling out the words “green shirt” by pointing to the letters on a letter board and then pointing at Dr. Bellg. At that moment, she was indeed wearing a green shirt but did not understand why this fact was significant. Once the patient was off artificial ventilation and able to talk, he described who had been present at his resuscitation, what they had worn, and what they had said. The events he perceived had occurred when he certainly must have been unconscious. Bellg was particularly impressed by the detail of his visual observations, which he had made from up above. He provided a thorough description of the resuscitation from the beginning. Early in his NDE, Howard felt himself shoot out of his head:

"I felt myself rising up through the ceiling and it was like I was going through the structure of the building. I could feel the different densities of passing through insulation. I saw wiring, some pipes and then I was in this other room. It looked like a hospital but it was different. [ . . . ] It was very quiet and it seemed like no one was there. There were individual rooms all around the edge and on some of the beds were these people, except they were not people, exactly. They looked like mannequins and they had IVs hooked up to them but they didn’t look real. In the center was an open area that looked like a collection of work stations with computers."

Dr. Bellg wrote:

"That’s when my jaw really dropped. I stole a look at the nurse who looked equally surprised. What we knew that Howard didn’t, is that right above the ICU is a nurse-training center where new hires spend a few days rotating through different scenarios. There are simulated hospital rooms around the perimeter with medical mannequins on some of the beds. In the center there is indeed a collection of workspaces with computers. I was amazed, but I was all in and I wanted to hear more."

Then Howard also correctly recounted exactly what Bellg had said during the defibrillation. His attention was drawn most by a lime-green shirt that she had worn that day. She was wearing the same shirt again on the day when Howard had tried to communicate about his NDE by means of a letterboard.

From The Self Does not Die: Verified Paranormal phenomena from Near-Death Experiences by Titus Rivas, MA, MSc, Anny Dirven, and Rudolf H. Smit
 
#13
It said there would be a locked room with a target inside? But somehow I think if people were able to see hidden secret realtime targets during OBE's, we would have heard about it by now.
Do you think there is any credible evidence for remote viewing?

What is your opinion on the Maimonides ESP-dream studies?

Do you have a view on the experiences reported by Andrew Paquette in his book "Dreamer"?
 
#14
Do you think there is any credible evidence for remote viewing?
I haven't spent long enough looking at it to have any opinion of value. I'm open minded, some of the drawings I've seen bear a resemblance to the actual targets, others didn't.

What is your opinion on the Maimonides ESP-dream studies?
Some of the telepathic, and in particular the precognitive stuff I've found interesting.

Do you have a view on the experiences reported by Andrew Paquette in his book "Dreamer"?
I've never read it. I've read a one or two experiences he's posted on Skeptiko, they look a little like the sorts of things people report.

Why did you ask the questions?
 
#15
OOBE's on demand.
Immersive virtual reality can be used to visually substitute a person's real body by a life-sized virtual body (VB) that is seen from first person perspective. Using real-time motion capture the VB can be programmed to move synchronously with the real body (visuomotor synchrony), and also virtual objects seen to strike the VB can be felt through corresponding vibrotactile stimulation on the actual body (visuotactile synchrony). This setup typically gives rise to a strong perceptual illusion of ownership over the VB. When the viewpoint is lifted up and out of the VB so that it is seen below this may result in an out-of-body experience (OBE). In a two-factor between-groups experiment with 16 female participants per group we tested how fear of death might be influenced by two different methods for producing an OBE. In an initial embodiment phase where both groups experienced the same multisensory stimuli there was a strong feeling of body ownership. Then the viewpoint was lifted up and behind the VB. In the experimental group once the viewpoint was out of the VB there was no further connection with it (no visuomotor or visuotactile synchrony). In a control condition, although the viewpoint was in the identical place as in the experimental group, visuomotor and visuotactile synchrony continued. While both groups reported high scores on a question about their OBE illusion, the experimental group had a greater feeling of disownership towards the VB below compared to the control group, in line with previous findings. Fear of death in the experimental group was found to be lower than in the control group. This is in line with previous reports that naturally occurring OBEs are often associated with enhanced belief in life after death.

Read more at: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-01-virtual-reality-out-of-body-death-volunteers.html#jCp
 
#18
OOBE's on demand.
Immersive virtual reality can be used to visually substitute a person's real body by a life-sized virtual body (VB) that is seen from first person perspective. Using real-time motion capture the VB can be programmed to move synchronously with the real body (visuomotor synchrony), and also virtual objects seen to strike the VB can be felt through corresponding vibrotactile stimulation on the actual body (visuotactile synchrony). This setup typically gives rise to a strong perceptual illusion of ownership over the VB. When the viewpoint is lifted up and out of the VB so that it is seen below this may result in an out-of-body experience (OBE). In a two-factor between-groups experiment with 16 female participants per group we tested how fear of death might be influenced by two different methods for producing an OBE. In an initial embodiment phase where both groups experienced the same multisensory stimuli there was a strong feeling of body ownership. Then the viewpoint was lifted up and behind the VB. In the experimental group once the viewpoint was out of the VB there was no further connection with it (no visuomotor or visuotactile synchrony). In a control condition, although the viewpoint was in the identical place as in the experimental group, visuomotor and visuotactile synchrony continued. While both groups reported high scores on a question about their OBE illusion, the experimental group had a greater feeling of disownership towards the VB below compared to the control group, in line with previous findings. Fear of death in the experimental group was found to be lower than in the control group. This is in line with previous reports that naturally occurring OBEs are often associated with enhanced belief in life after death.

Read more at: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2017-01-virtual-reality-out-of-body-death-volunteers.html#jCp
Interesting. The subjects in this study were provided with real, but spatially dislocated visual sensory data, designed to move their apparent location of 'self' outside of their virtual body. Subjects in the group who experienced a more immersive OBE (where visual and tactile data - bouncing balls - stayed with their relocated OBE 'self') later reported a lower fear of death, than subjects in the group who experienced a less immersive experience (where visual and tactile data was split between their relocated 'self', and their virtual body).

The authors suggest that the more immersive experience provides better implicit evidence to subjects, that 'self' can exist separately from the body, and that this correlates with their findings that this groups subjects - when subsequently tested - showed a reduction in their fear of death, when compared with subjects who were tested from the less immersive group. They also suggest that this correlates with the reduction in fear of death that is often reported from near death experients, and also claim this fits with Metzingers theory, that the NDE/OBE is the source from which the popular idea of having a 'soul' originates.

However it's worthwhile pointing out both groups experiences were totally real. Subjects really experienced visual sensory data whilst in a wakeful state, which actually located their sense of 'self' as above and behind of their virtual body. The more immersive and synchronized the sensory data, the greater the reduction in the subjects fear of death.

One could therefore say that this study is supportive of the idea that the NDE OBE is also due to real, and dislocated sensory data, obtained and integrated whilst in a wakeful state. In that sense, this study validates the NDE OBE as a very real experience, obtained from real but dislocated data, whilst in a conscious (wakeful) state.
 
#19
In that sense, this study validates the NDE OBE as a very real experience, obtained from real but dislocated data, whilst in a conscious (wakeful) state.
My only issue with that is the fact that OBEs during NDEs usually include information that could not have collected beforehand. Especially information that could not have been gained through our ordinary perception. For instance (In addition to the one a couple posts above this):

"The next day, Lerma went to see the new patients and saw Ricardo waving at him and motioning that the doctor should come see him first. He thanked Dr. Lerma for his efforts and also referred to the conversation about the near-death experience. Ricardo told Lerma the kinds of life lessons he had retained from the NDE. Lastly, he asked the intern to help him to prove that his experience had been more than a kind of dream. The patient said:

When I was out of my body and floating up above the trauma room I spotted a 1985 quarter lying on the right-hand corner of the 8-foot-high cardiac monitor. It was amidst the dust as if someone had put it there for this very reason. Dr. Lerma, could you please check for me? It would mean so much to me.

Subsequently, Lerma took a ladder to the ER. He climbed up the ladder, in the presence of nurses. Lerma wrote, “To our total amazement, there it was, just as he had seen it, and even the year was right: 1985.” He argued that there appeared to be only two possible explanations for the correct description of the quarter: Ricardo had placed the quarter there himself, or he was able to truly see the coin in his out-of-body state. He mentioned that Ricardo, from a medical point of view, had not been in any condition to climb a ladder for years. Lerma also could not establish a link with anyone who worked in the ER."

Rivas, Titus; Dirven,Anny; Smit,Rudolf. The Self Does Not Die: Verified Paranormal Phenomena from Near-Death Experiences (p. 37). International Association for Near-Death Studies. Kindle Edition.

And we can't forget the fact that in order for the brain to be creating these "Illusions", It would need to be functioning, which, during CA, It is not.
 
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#20
My only issue with that is the fact that OBEs during NDEs usually include information that could not have collected beforehand. Especially information that could not have been gained through our ordinary perception. For instance (In addition to the one a couple posts above this):

"The next day, Lerma went to see the new patients and saw Ricardo waving at him and motioning that the doctor should come see him first. He thanked Dr. Lerma for his efforts and also referred to the conversation about the near-death experience. Ricardo told Lerma the kinds of life lessons he had retained from the NDE. Lastly, he asked the intern to help him to prove that his experience had been more than a kind of dream. The patient said:

When I was out of my body and floating up above the trauma room I spotted a 1985 quarter lying on the right-hand corner of the 8-foot-high cardiac monitor. It was amidst the dust as if someone had put it there for this very reason. Dr. Lerma, could you please check for me? It would mean so much to me.

Subsequently, Lerma took a ladder to the ER. He climbed up the ladder, in the presence of nurses. Lerma wrote, “To our total amazement, there it was, just as he had seen it, and even the year was right: 1985.” He argued that there appeared to be only two possible explanations for the correct description of the quarter: Ricardo had placed the quarter there himself, or he was able to truly see the coin in his out-of-body state. He mentioned that Ricardo, from a medical point of view, had not been in any condition to climb a ladder for years. Lerma also could not establish a link with anyone who worked in the ER."

Rivas, Titus; Dirven,Anny; Smit,Rudolf. The Self Does Not Die: Verified Paranormal Phenomena from Near-Death Experiences (p. 37). International Association for Near-Death Studies. Kindle Edition.

And we can't forget the fact that in order for the brain to be creating these "Illusions", It would need to be functioning, which, during CA, It is not.
I don't know the case, so can't really comment. I read Smithys book, there are lots of new cases which I had never heard about before, but they are often rather brief and sparse on information. More worryingly, I found incomplete case information (from that which I was already aware of), in some of the more famous cases. That is a problem, as it suggests to me the book is pushing a certain viewpoint, and was avoiding introducing the reader to information which could undermine the authors position.

As for the last part, it's equally as possible to state that these experiences mean the brain *is* somehow functioning, and that current ideas about how the brain functions are incomplete, or wrong.
 
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