Are OBE's merely coma hallucinations?

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#62
Who said that the spiritual realm is supernatural? It is part of nature as anything else.
I agree that if there is anything to supernatural claims, it will turn out to be perfectly natural. However, for now, I think it's fair to use the term "supernatural" to describe visits to Heaven.

~~Paul
 
#63
Fair enough. We're assuming that the boy is in the hospital, although this is not stated in the story.

The boy is in his room, sleeping fitfully. His mother has gone out for a break. A friend is sitting with the boy. The phone rings and the friend answers it. She learns that the mother's old boyfriend died earlier that day. Then she has to leave and has no chance or forgets to tell the mother. The boy works the information into his dream and then relays it to his mother.

Checking to see if that covers all the facts in the story ... yup.

~~Paul
It doesn't matter to me whether he was in the hospital or not. So we'll play it your way, and it's still absurd.

We'll pick up your story right when the mother goes for a break, and the phone rings. As I noticed you powered right through that section.

So the phone rings and the friend answers it. We'll call the friend Mrs. F, The person on the Phone Mrs. T, the mother Linda, the boyfriend Steve.
The bold parts are the parts that the 7 year old boy dying of leukemia could hear.

"Hello", says Mrs. F as she answers the phone.
"Hi is Linda there?"
"No she just stepped out for a second, can I take a message for her?"
"Well sure, just tell her Mrs. T called, and just wanted to let her now that Steve passed away?"
"Ok thanks, I will let her know".

That's typically how a conversation like that would go, but let's follow your train of thought. Oh also we'll continue to assume that the friend who answers the phone could care less about interrupting the boy's attempt to sleep by having a phone conversation within ear shot of him… because you know he's only dying of leukemia and all.

The phone rings.

"Hello"
"Hi, is Linda there?"
"No she just stepped out for a second, may I ask who's calling?"
"Yes, this is Mrs. T"
"Oh Hi, Mrs. T. Well Linda stepped out and I have no idea when she'll get back. Can I take a message for her?"
"Well, yea. I mean I was just calling to let her know about Steve."
"Steve?"
"Yes, Steve her old boyfriend… you know the one that lost his ability to walk in that car accident."
"Steve, her old boyfriend the one who lost his ability to walk in that car accident? I'm not sure I know who that is"
"Well he was an old boyfriend of hers."
"Oh ok, well what message do you want me to pass along?"
"Well Steve passed away literally few moments ago."
"Oh goodness! I will let her know. That's very sad."
"Ok well I have to go"
"Ok thanks, goodbye".

Later the mother returns, the boy recounts his vision, the friend either forgets or leaves, and when the mother tries to call her mutual friends she manages to avoid calling the one friend who called to leave the message, and throw in a pinch of faulty memories on behalf of everyone (remember you can't have a good skeptic theory without a dash of conveniently faulty memory), bake for 10 minutes and voila you have a nice skeptic cake all made from scratch.

Also, as someone who has worked for a Children's cancer research hospital, I would advise you to get a little more acquainted with what a 7 year old boy dying of leukemia actually entails. Maybe then you'd have a little more appreciation for the absurdity of your theory.

It's much easier to assume that this is just a tall tale that never even happened, then that your theory works.
 
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Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#64
The phone rings.
"Hello"
"Hi, is Linda there?"
"No she just stepped out for a second, may I ask who's calling?"
"Yes, this is Mrs. T"
"Oh Hi, Mrs. T. Well Linda stepped out and I have no idea when she'll get back. Can I take a message for her?"
Here you appear to be assuming that Mrs. F does not know Mrs. T. Perhaps you're not.

"Well, yea. I mean I was just calling to let her know about Steve."
"Steve?"
"Yes, Steve her old boyfriend… you know the one that lost his ability to walk in that car accident."
"Steve, her old boyfriend the one who lost his ability to walk in that car accident? I'm not sure I know who that is"
Why are you assuming that Mrs. F doesn't know about the boyfriend? Why are you bringing up the car accident when the story does not verify that the accident was relevant?

"Well he was an old boyfriend of hers."
"Oh ok, well what message do you want me to pass along?"
"Well Steve passed away literally few moments ago."
"Oh goodness! I will let her know. That's very sad."
Or:

"Oh no, Steve died?! I'm so sorry to hear this. I know Linda will be shocked."

And there is no need for anyone to mention that the boyfriend died that day; Linda learns that later.

Later the mother returns, the boy recounts his vision, the friend either forgets or leaves, and when the mother tries to call her mutual friends she manages to avoid calling the one friend who called to leave the message, and throw in a pinch of faulty memories on behalf of everyone (remember you can't have a good skeptic theory without a dash of conveniently faulty memory), bake for 10 minutes and voila you have a nice skeptic cake all made from scratch.
Perhaps Linda would have called Mrs. F, but found out from another friend first. I'm not sure where faulty memory comes in, but I note that proponents often hate to consider the possibility that memory is not perfect. I wonder why that is?

Also, as someone who has worked for a Children's cancer research hospital, I would advise you to get a little more acquainted with what a 7 year old boy dying of leukemia actually entails. Maybe then you'd have a little more appreciation for the absurdity of your theory.
I can't get acquainted unless someone tells me. What did you have in mind?

Do you know that the boy was actually in the hospital? Do you know when he died?

It's much easier to assume that this is just a tall tale that never even happened, then that your theory works.
Apparently it's easier to assume that a child can visit Heaven than it is to assume the incredibly mundane scenario I proposed.

~~ Paul
 
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