AWARE Update - Peer Review Complete

Parnia did make it fairly clear back in 2010 that he thought these experiences were probably "an illusion" but that he was open minded enough to find out what the experimental results were. And I think that was an honorable position to take, and that he didn't deserve the lambasting he got for it from various sources.

I don't really think it's an accident, however, that we've barely heard a peep out of the man since those results finally came in. When you combine these findings with the Olaf Blanke data, it's really a pretty strong case, in data, that would now need to be overturned for this *not* to be a form of perceptual illusion.
Parnia did make it fairly clear back in 2013 and now in 2014:

"The point that goes against the experiences happening afterwards, or before the brain shut down, is that many people describe very specific details of what happened to them during cardiac arrest. They describe conversations people had, clothes people wore, events that went on 10 or 20 minutes into resuscitation. That is not compatible with brain activity.

It may be that some people receive better-quality resuscitation, and that — though there’s no evidence to support it — they did have brain activity. Or it could indicate that human consciousness, the psyche, the soul, the self, continued to function."


"the brain is more like a RAM than a hard drive, so that “memories can be stored in our consciousness, psyche, or soul even in the absence of brain function."

"
When you die, there’s no blood flow going into your brain. If it goes below a certain level, you can’t have electrical activity. It takes a lot of imagination to think there’s somehow a hidden area of your brain that comes into action when everything else isn’t working.

"These observations raise a question about our current concept of how brain and mind interact. The historical idea is that electrochemical processes in the brain lead to consciousness. That may no longer be correct, because we can demonstrate that those processes don’t go on after death"

To all that must be added the numerous reports of people in NDEs accurately recalling specific conversations and events that occurred—in and sometimes out of their operating rooms—while they had no brain function. Parnia recounts one case where a new doctor, dealing with a patient in a prolonged cardiac arrest, ate the patient’s lunch. After recovery, the patient described to the doctor a detailed NDE, and finished with: “And you ate my lunch!”

" All we can say now is that the data suggests that consciousness is not annihilated."

Olaf Blanke?....

As Pim van Lommel noted, the abnormal bodily experiences described by Blanke and colleagues entail a false sense of reality. Typical OBEs, in contrast, implicate a verifiable perception (from a position above or outside of the body) of events, such as their own resuscitation or a traffic accident, and the surroundings in which the events took place.

The "OBE's" found there included distortion of body image and illusion of bodily movement.


http://www.wired.com/2013/04/consciousness-after-death/all/

https://iands.org/research/importan...y-experiences-all-in-the-brain.html?showall=1

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2014/0...s-where-the-field-is-leading/?singlepage=true
 
Parnia did make it fairly clear back in 2013 and now in 2014:

"The point that goes against the experiences happening afterwards, or before the brain shut down, is that many people describe very specific details of what happened to them during cardiac arrest. They describe conversations people had, clothes people wore, events that went on 10 or 20 minutes into resuscitation. That is not compatible with brain activity.

It may be that some people receive better-quality resuscitation, and that — though there’s no evidence to support it — they did have brain activity. Or it could indicate that human consciousness, the psyche, the soul, the self, continued to function."


"the brain is more like a RAM than a hard drive, so that “memories can be stored in our consciousness, psyche, or soul even in the absence of brain function."

"
When you die, there’s no blood flow going into your brain. If it goes below a certain level, you can’t have electrical activity. It takes a lot of imagination to think there’s somehow a hidden area of your brain that comes into action when everything else isn’t working.

"These observations raise a question about our current concept of how brain and mind interact. The historical idea is that electrochemical processes in the brain lead to consciousness. That may no longer be correct, because we can demonstrate that those processes don’t go on after death"

To all that must be added the numerous reports of people in NDEs accurately recalling specific conversations and events that occurred—in and sometimes out of their operating rooms—while they had no brain function. Parnia recounts one case where a new doctor, dealing with a patient in a prolonged cardiac arrest, ate the patient’s lunch. After recovery, the patient described to the doctor a detailed NDE, and finished with: “And you ate my lunch!”

" All we can say now is that the data suggests that consciousness is not annihilated."

Olaf Blanke?....

As Pim van Lommel noted, the abnormal bodily experiences described by Blanke and colleagues entail a false sense of reality. Typical OBEs, in contrast, implicate a verifiable perception (from a position above or outside of the body) of events, such as their own resuscitation or a traffic accident, and the surroundings in which the events took place.

The "OBE's" found there included distortion of body image and illusion of bodily movement.


http://www.wired.com/2013/04/consciousness-after-death/all/

https://iands.org/research/importan...y-experiences-all-in-the-brain.html?showall=1

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2014/0...s-where-the-field-is-leading/?singlepage=true
Actually, those comments aren't from 2014, they are from a Wired interview early in 2013, more than a year and a half ago now, and hence long before publication.
 
It amazes me how you can look at forty years of NDE data, 100's of veridical OBE's during cardiac arrest reported by reliable medical professionals... and come to that conclusion. You just seem to skate over all the data as if it's nothing. If only one of these episodes occurred like the patients said it did, that's it for materialism and yet we have thousands of reports.

Don't you get it that if YOU had one of these experiences YOU would accept it as being real. Don't answer that BTW, I sense alien abduction analogy on the way.
I don't see it that way tim. We clearly have different concepts of "data." What you are calling "data" and "veridical cases" are in fact anecdotal accounts. The AWARE study was the one and only serious attempt to discover whether these structures of folkloric propagation (shoes glimpsed on ledges etc) actually had any basis in literal fact. Over the decades the subject has blossomed into its own mythology, but without ever actually being brought to account.
 
No.
Half of his comments are from 2013 and the pjmedia interview is from 2014. The other half of the comments I posted were from there (2014).
Okay, well then he's changed his mind again, because in late 2014 (i.e. a few days ago) he has now stated he believes these experiences are caused by blood flow to the brain (see the posts above).
 
I don't see it that way tim. We clearly have different concepts of "data." What you are calling "data" and "veridical cases" are in fact anecdotal accounts. The AWARE study was the one and only serious attempt to discover whether these structures of folkloric propagation (shoes glimpsed on ledges etc) actually had any basis in literal fact. Over the decades the subject has blossomed into its own mythology, but without ever actually being brought to account.
There were other serious studies before Aware, it seems you do not know them, do not worry, is easy to find them on the net.
 
There were other serious studies before Aware, it seems you do not know them, do not worry, is easy to find them on the net.
I said, for having basis in literal fact. If you know of such studies, by all means post what you are talking about, instead of making vague allusions to Google.
 
I don't see it that way tim. We clearly have different concepts of "data." What you are calling "data" and "veridical cases" are in fact anecdotal accounts. The AWARE study was the one and only serious attempt to discover whether these structures of folkloric propagation (shoes glimpsed on ledges etc) actually had any basis in literal fact. Over the decades the subject has blossomed into its own mythology, but without ever actually being brought to account.
To be fair, the AWARE study wasn't the first serious attempt. Penny Sartori's study had targets (and several people had OBEs in areas where the targets were placed (including one person who actually reported on the area where the target was placed), so it was more successful in that regard than AWARE (the targets weren't seen, though)). And she did a much better job of interviewing subjects early and often, so there is better documentation of the stories, many under blinded conditions.

Linda
 
To be fair, the AWARE study wasn't the first serious attempt. Penny Sartori's study had targets (and several people had OBEs in areas where the targets were placed, so it was more successful in that regard than AWARE (the targets weren't seen, though)). And she did a much better job of interviewing subjects early and often, so there is better documentation of the stories, many under blinded conditions.

Linda
Yes, this is true, though it was a much smaller study and produced no results with respect to targets.
 
It amazes me how you can look at forty years of NDE data, 100's of veridical OBE's during cardiac arrest reported by reliable medical professionals...
Really? Hundreds of veridical NDEs? I understood that there were a handful at best, and Reynolds is the only moderately interesting one (imho)
 
Really? Hundreds of veridical NDEs? I understood that there were a handful at best, and Reynolds is the only moderately interesting one (imho)
Veridical in that context really means "reported to be veridical." Veridical in my book means someone saw a target in a controlled experiment. But again...you pick your horses in this argument, I guess.
 
I don't see it that way tim. We clearly have different concepts of "data." What you are calling "data" and "veridical cases" are in fact anecdotal accounts. The AWARE study was the one and only serious attempt to discover whether these structures of folkloric propagation (shoes glimpsed on ledges etc) actually had any basis in literal fact. Over the decades the subject has blossomed into its own mythology, but without ever actually being brought to account.
It certainly was no myth that Pamela Reynolds woke up and said "I popped out of the top of my head" ....and so it was with all the other cases
 
I don't really think it's an accident, however, that we've barely heard a peep out of the man since those results finally came in. When you combine these findings with the Olaf Blanke data, it's really a pretty strong case, in data, that would now need to be overturned for this *not* to be a form of perceptual illusion.
But the results have been in for a long time. Parnia was talking about them during the Nour Foundation discussions late last year. If I remember correctly, AWARE began the peer review process shortly afterwards. (Unfortunately the 2014 AWARE update is no longer on the Horizon Research page, so I can't verify this.)* I know that AWARE was rejected for publication by the British Medical Journal. Consequently, Parnia and co. would have had to submit the study to Resuscitation and begin the process over again. Unless the study is ongoing and Parnia is privy to some new information, I think he is at the same point, data-wise, that he was during the Nour Foundation discussions.

Also, Parnia has been critical about Blanke's data and its relevance to NDE OBEs in the past, but I don't know if his opinion has changed on the matter.

*It is still on the Horizon Research Facebook page. AWARE had already been sent out for review back in February.
 
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No, that's just Tim's opinion. I took what Parnia himself said without "reading" stuff into it.
Bringing up the Nour videos again, Parnia spoke extensively about the difficulties in getting AWARE cleared by skeptical physicians. I doubt that he's convinced of the "soul" and intent on proving its existence, but I do think he thinks there is a mystery here, and it's cautious and smart on his part to suggest a physical mechanism to help get AWARE II off the ground. In any case, oxygen monitors should be welcomed by all since they will hopefully shine more light on what is actually happening in the brain.
 
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