Brian Dunning, Is the “Skeptical Thing” Over? |363|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    I loved the Donald Hoffman video: it's a slight pity he seems to avail himself, in part, of a neo-Darwinistic model of evolution, but apart from that, his "desktop" metaphor for what science usually takes to be reality is a memorable one. Wish I'd thought of it, but never mind: now I know about it, I'll be able to use it in future.
     
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  2. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    BTW, Alex: what has happened to the smileys? Can we get them back?
     
  3. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    One of the tendencies I've noticed with sceptics, is if you keep pointing out logical fallacies and don't allow them to get away with sloppy thinking, they'll either implode in flaming and cussing, or crumble before your eyes. People who half an hour earlier were confidently dismissing counter claims as gross stupidity, go on to say things like "you don't know anything about my life", and "why do you hate people so much?" even when there's been no personal attack whatsoever.

    This has happened a number of times in internet discussions when I've kept playing a straight bat, avoided provocation but wouldn't be deterred from the issue. Beneath the bravado and hive mentality there are a lot of very insecure individuals using materialism as a life raft. It's a pretty miserable metaphysic, and none of its bombast changes the nihilism at its core.
     
  4. K9!

    K9! New

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    Yes, I noticed that Dunning kept gravitating towards the "you don't like us" theme rather than providing an adequate counter-argument to what Alex had been stating.
     
  5. malf

    malf Member

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    :D
     
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  6. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    The us thing. An embattled community of well disposed individuals fighting prejudice with logic, and keeping the barbarians at bay. Or the standard model that makes people of alternative views outcasts in research, promotes pharmaceuticals on an industrial scale, refuses to accept any connection between the body count of institutionally atheist regimes and their variety of atheism, and adopts a toxic approach to social media interaction. The Man rewritten as cottage industry.
     
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  7. Maggie Cox

    Maggie Cox Member

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    This was a really interesting podcast, after I listened I found the one with Joe Rogan, googled Brian Dunning and was surprised he was still around after a fraud case. However, I must admit I am still not sure about Urli Geller having watched the TV programme where he couldn’t perform at all after James Randi had made some suggestions about the props. Can someone explain this to me, I don’t think Alex should give him wholehearted support if he does sometimes resort to trickery.
     
  8. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Can you give a link or two to examples of this phenomenon?

    David
     
  9. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    I could but then everyone would know the dives I hang out. Seriously though, it's something I've noticed repeatedly, along with "leave it M8, this idiot int worth it" when the logic they see as their own becomes inescapable (abandon ship!). Also industrial levels of sock puppetry. In fact I sometimes think the entire sceptic phenomenon is 5 fanboys cutting and pasting stock answers. I know of one individual who's responsible for about half the sceptical replies on YouTube, and he's gone from supremely confident, reasonably lucid and aggressively adversarial, to rambling and incoherent whenever I reply to a thread containing each of his numerous guises.

    The problem is you need time and patience to get through their stock moves to the nitty gritty. I try to spend less time on the internet nowadays.

    edit: I should add that I get very little satisfaction from such exchanges, especially as they're so stereotypical, but I am fascinated by the phenomenon of internet scepticism, the disparity between its beleaguered image of itself and the reality and the way in which a small group of suitably motivated individuals can shape an agenda.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
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  10. Alex

    Alex New

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    seems like separate issues to me... Geller's metalist stage act, and performance on the Tonight Show, has no bearing and the parapsy lab tests done on him.

    more on Randi and the SRI tests here: www.skepticalinvestigations.org/Examskeptics/Prescott_Randi.html
     
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  11. K9!

    K9! New

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    It's interesting that Dunning is still a fan-boy of the skeptical community, which seems to have disowned him since his fraud conviction.

    http://skepchick.org/2014/08/brian-dunning-sentenced-to-15-months-in-prison-for-fraud/

    http://skepchick.org/2014/02/the-worst-thing-brian-dunning-has-done-for-skepticism/

     
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  12. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Skeptics have low IQs what do you expect, like said poster mentioned, they have stock responses it get boring and wasteful of energy even talking to them
     
  13. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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  14. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    On the Scole phenomena that Brian Dunning comments on ... Ref. is The Scole Report (1999). Available from the SPR and Amazon.

    "Brian Dunning: It was a big project and they even invited people with expertise in magic. Stage magicians, like Richard Wiseman, came in and observed some of these ..."

    No Brian. Wrong. Wiseman was never present in the Scole cellar. In fact from here ... The Scole Report Five Years Later
    by Montague Keen and David Fontana
    http://www.thescoleexperiment.com/david-fontana-the-scole-report-five-years-later.html


    "Those who were present at the Study Day on Scole will remember that Dr (now Professor) Richard Wiseman, who is an experienced magician as well as a rigorous and well-informed critic of psychical research, went on record at the time with the judgement that the Report is 'very impressive', and offered no suggestions as to how the phenomena could be replicated by normal means (which must not of course be taken to imply that he necessarily accepted their paranormality)."

    Brian Dunning: "The few people who were there, who were familiar with séance performances, basically came out laughing and saying, “These are silly tricks that have been familiar to séance performers for a hundred years."

    No Brian. Wrong. Read in the above link the Magicians' verdict ... "The result is that the magicians' verdict on the Scole phenomena must rest with the three magicians who have already commented upon them. The first of these is James Webster, who has the advantage of actually having been present at three sittings with the Scole Group. It is interesting that although magicians were welcome to attend sittings at Scole only James Webster availed himself of the opportunity."
    He actually contributed to The Scole Report.

    Also from the link

    "A more extensive verdict, and the third of those delivered on the Scole Report by magicians, is by Professor Arthur Hastings of the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in California, USA. In addition to being a leading psychologist with a long-standing interest in psychical research, Professor Hastings is a highly accomplished magician who has worked professionally in that capacity and continues to give talks and demonstrations on the subject. In his written verdict submitted to us he insists that the phenomena at Scole could not be produced by sleight of hand or trickery. In his own words: 'The behaviours described in the Report are not ones which can be produced by magicians under the close conditions of the Scole investigation, and some can't be produced under any conditions'."

    Do your research Brian. It's out there. I mean, it's just ... easy.
     
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  15. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Research? From a fraud? He justs wants traffic to his blog and website. Oh wait I can't prove that in a lab
     
  16. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    So I've been posting about this on another thread, but the skeptical thing is NOT over.
    Here's a teaser for a full length strawman documentary they're making:

     
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  17. Alex

    Alex New

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    thx for the link. I will watch... but it's still over :)
     
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  18. Psiclops

    Psiclops Member

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    Beats me how Alex resisted putting the phone down on such an ignoramus.
    So Dunning runs a podcast for people who dismiss paranormal abilities, asks about their psychic experiences and then claims the result is evidence that precognition doesn't exist!
    So that's how to do science?!
    Contrasted against Alex's knowledge of real science done on the subject, Dunning appeared as bright as a worm - and just as wriggly.
     
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  19. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    This lady is not nor was she ever a mystic. You have to be pretty old and well dedicated to receive a title like that (think Gandolf) , she might of been the leader of a new age cult. What I am being taught looks down severely at the watered down "love and light" new age.
     
  20. Alex

    Alex New

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    thx, then again, that's where it gets interesting. I mean, Brian might be this willfully ignorant, but it's hard to believe folks like Wiseman and his co-conspirators were. makes you wonder what game is really being played.
     
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