Bruce Fenton, A Better Human Origin Story |429|

"crazy Battle Royale down here" - Bruce Fenton

LOL! Agreed!, I have seen so much of this nightmare - that I call this realm a hell. I fear most of my flights home, and the depths of depression I have had upon returning from some of these nations/places. It has taken me weeks to recover after several of my projects. I wander through the grocery store or Target, like a zombie - disinterested in anything. It has caused me to examine my life in detail. Reconsider every religious and skepticism notion I ever held.

In this example given by 'fallen souls', we may well be able to forge a definition of 'evil' which transcends violence, or eating another animal, or culling off the weak, or the having of money or family/home, or desire for sex at the wrong time or in the wrong way. These things are not evil - rather our inexorable reality in which we live. Evil may well be 'that spiritual delusion which serves to cap an individual to a limited plane of existence'.

From my best experience, evil manifests when one party seeks to the role of god over a fellow being, through either the exercise of power or the predicate of self-deception.

Take Responsibility​
If you are to kill, know that you are the killer - and why you have claimed life.
If someone kills to your benefit, know that you are the killer - and why you have done so.
If you are to take, know that you are the taker - and why you have taken.
If someone takes to your benefit, know that you are the taker - and why you have done so.
If you are to benefit from exploitation, know that you exploit - and direct it also to benefit (the theory of capital).
If you are to lie, know that you have lied - and why you have lied (especially to self).
Never self-deceive that you are not these things, simply from not having had to play the game in the first place.
Be whole in what thou has wilt.
Love/Forgive​
Do not play your actions as virtuous, nor the fault of the victim (the theory of ethics).
Never exercise an Intent as god over another being (mistake of the fallen angel).
Never exercise an Intent of god-vengeance (mistake of the demon).
Never assign bad-good to another from that which is merely method (the supposed knowledge of good and evil).
Love is a reasoned commitment to serve, only.
Release those who hold responsibility for harm, from their godship over your soul.
Fallen, is the state in which one performs their group 1 activities under a group 2 delusion.
I have no argument with this but it doesn't speak to my day-to-day minute-by-minute experience. for me, non-dual teachers do a better job of capturing what it's like to live through the overwhelming feeling of re-experiencing the crazy personal self I have created with my consciousness.
 
What we are exactly remains a very fundamental question, you can infer from this that humans today house souls from a wide range of entities that have had experiences living as other forms of intelligence on other worlds (many of whom would be very much service-to-self and quite malicious in nature).

Bruce,

What I have heard about "service to self" (evil) is that it is supposedly a parallel path of soul development that eventually leads to the same end result as "service to others" (good). Is this what you are referring to? If so, what is the evidence upon which you base belief in it?

I am somewhat doubtful that such a path of soul development exists, mainly because it is conspicuously absent from discussions such as the one I have quoted below (ie I cannot find any confirmation of it from sources I believe are reliable). I am not saying evil does not exist, I am saying it is more likely due to ignorance or lack of development. I don't want to suppress any truth but if it is not true it is a particularly harmful falsehood because it could be used to rationalize evil actions.

This transcript (below) is from a session with the medium Leslie Flint in which a spirit provides information about reincarnation. Flint was a direct voice medium, the spirits spoke audibly in his presence. In my opinion Flint's sessions are the most reliable source of information about the afterlife.

The home page of the website is here:
https://www.leslieflint.com

Here is a link to the transcript.
https://www.leslieflint.com/d-conacher-aug-4th-1965
Douglas:​
I think the most important thing to realise in regard to reincarnation is the fact that it is something which isn't necessarily essential, in every instance. In other words, not everyone incarnates again, although many, many do - in fact, the vast majority.​
But of course, we have to go back centuries upon centuries of time and realise that there are many, many souls who have incarnated on several occasions and now do not feel the need to incarnate again. But, uh, of course one has to accept the fact that in one life on Earth one can only hope to, in a sense, skim the surface of experience, and it's often necessary to re-enter the Earth-world to live a new life; in a new guise, in a new body, as a new being. Indeed sometimes of the opposite sex. Sometimes it's essential to experience certain happenings which can only be experienced, uh, under certain conditions, which previously were quite different when you were on Earth before.​
Then again I think one should remember that there are individuals who choose to return to do a special work. Most of the great teachers and prophets of old, were very old souls who had chosen to return to do a certain work in a certain age, and set an example and show the path for others who might follow.​
...​
There are bound to be people with differing views and different strata of experience. And, of course, there are many people to whom reincarnation is repugnant and who, possibly in many instances, will not have the need to incarnate, will not want to reincarnate.​
You see, the point is, that there are so many souls on Earth who have, uh, experienced a great deal in previous lives - of which they of course remember little or nothing at all, more likely than not, nothing at all - and in consequence they do not have the time in their incarnation, to have experience of these things.​
But...and in a way it's a good thing. I mean, people always say, 'if one could remember this or that, then it would be very good evidence or proof of it...and since we don't remember, how do we know?' But the point is this, that in many instances, it would be a bad thing to have recognition or remembrance of previous lives, because that would be a barrier rather than a help.​
For instance, if you remembered certain aspects of life that were, in your own instance or own case, bad - from the point of view of the fact that you did this or that, that you should not have done, which was detrimental to your spiritual advancement...if you remembered this too vividly and knew about it too much, you would then, in the next incarnation, be on your guard and you would be artificially, you might say, avoiding things.​
In other words, when a thing happens, it must happen from within oneself. If you want to do good or if you want to live a life that is good or do certain things that are wise, then these things will spring from within oneself and come naturally.​
But if you do things because you think you should do them, it's the right thing to and you do them against your will, or if you do something because you think it's essential that you do it, because in a previous incarnation you neglected that aspect of yourself...in other words, if you do something through a kind of fear, then that's not good in itself.​
You see, it must spring naturally from one's innermost soul that you want to do something...​
People say...so many people say, 'oh well if I knew where I went wrong last time, I could avoid it.' Well, the point is, that if you knew where you went wrong or you knew what your failings were, and in this incarnation you were on your guard and you were saying to yourself, 'now I mustn't do this' or 'I mustn't do that. This is where I went wrong last time', you would probably, almost certainly, be doing something, in a sense, through fear. You wouldn't be doing it naturally, it wouldn't...​
...be springing from your innermost soul when you wanted to do something. You see, until man learns to live according to his inner conscience and his inner realisation of things that are wise and good, until man desires to do good for good's sake and not through a kind of fear...that is the trouble of course for the majority of religions.​
So much goodness comes, not through the sake of goodness or wanting particularly to be good, but but through the fear of doing otherwise, in case they are...in case one is punished, you see?​
That is one of the big faults with, uh, orthodox religion.​
Eira:​
Yes. Have you found...learnt your, um, incarnations darling?​
Oh yes I...​
Eira:​
When did you know about them?​
Douglas:​
I've known about them for some little time...​
Eira:​
Yes.​
Douglas:​
...but I'm getting to know a little more of the detail. But the point is, that there are some incarnations of which one has little knowledge or realisation, because in themselves they played a very unimportant part.​
You see, there are lives in which - I suppose the formative lives or the formative experiences of Earth - which were so basic, which were so...in any case, one has to go back to the time and the way of life of the times and also to realise that one was the product of an age to some extent.​
You see, there again, I think it's important to realise that...that people are the product of an age. And what is generally accepted as the thing to do or the outlook of life that one may have in that age, may not necessarily fit in and could not fit in with another age.​
You see, there is so much that one has to take into consideration. For instance, a person may not be, according to the age in which they live, as bad a person as perhaps we would think in retrospect. Because they are the product of an age that may have been, for instance, very cruel - and cruelty was an accepted thing.​
I mean, this may sound like an excuse, but the point is, that there are things that do not happen in your life today, which were commonplace a hundred years ago.​
For instance, you take...today you don't hang children, but a hundred years ago it wasn't an unknown thing for children who stole a loaf of bread to be hanged, you see.​
The point is, that we are the product of our age and our time and the thinking. You see, the whole point is, the thought-force of an age is so powerful...​
...that it affects the whole of life, it affects the whole of humanity and until man progresses en masse...you see, we talk about the individual progress of man which is, of course, necessary and vital and of course it must be the individual progress of man that will formulate the whole thinking of the whole human race en mass.​
But the point is, that an age is predominantly as it thinks, and the peoples of that age are the product of the minds of a previous generation...​
...that have been the formation of their own and present. So we are all, in a sense, in an age of change or time of change and in evolution.​
And an age...an individual life in a certain age, is essential and necessary and we learn, to a certain extent, and we make terrible mistakes and we have failure.​
But the point is, that it is often necessary for the human being to incarnate; in a new incarnation, in a new life, in a new age - to contribute something which is very necessary, not only to himself (or evolve or develop in himself) but to contribute to the age in which he is reborn.​
There are great instances of course of this, of great souls who, in a way, stand head and shoulders above the peoples of their time. They are great leaders or great teachers or great prophets or great seers or...in some field or other. Maybe it is in art for instance or music.​
All these great souls on which, often, the world looks upon as a genius. Or, for instance, if not that, in some instances, they are looked upon as people out of time, people that perhaps are not always accepted in their age, people who do not seem to fit in.​
These are old souls who have chosen to return, or perhaps, in some instances, have been sent back. But no one really enters into the world unwillingly. I don't think one can say that anyone is forced back. The point is, that the majority of people desire to enter into the world again. They feel the need for experiences or perhaps they feel the need to do a specific work or job.​
Everything is law and order, everything is logical. The extraordinary is that people always say, for instance, about Spiritualism or communication or reincarnation or whatever it may be, to do with the psychic or the spiritual, that it's not logical. Actually, the most logical thing of all is this spiritual realisation. People cling to the material and think that is the logical, but it isn't, it's the most illogical.​
 
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I am somewhat doubtful that such a path of soul development exists, mainly because it is conspicuously absent from discussions such as the I have quoted below (ie I cannot find any confirmation of it from sources I believe are reliable). I am not saying evil does not exist, I am saying it is more likely due to ignorance or lack of development. I don't want to suppress any truth but if it is not true it is a particularly harmful falsehood because it could be used to rationalize evil actions.
I agree for exactly the reasons you stated.

and from the excellent transcript you cited:
"Actually, the most logical thing of all is this spiritual realisation."
 
I agree for exactly the reasons you stated.

and from the excellent transcript you cited:
"Actually, the most logical thing of all is this spiritual realisation."

I agree, but I am also somewhat sympathetic to people who look around them and see so much suffering in the world, and see evil occurring, and see people seeming to personally benefit from evil acts and not understanding how there can be any good intelligence running such a system behind the scenes. It does make sense once you get it, when you have had the benefit of exposure to spiritual teachings, but sometimes people need help understanding. And I think that is part of the design, partly for the reasons is the quote I included - so people will act well or badly of their own free will - and partly because people learn better when when they think system is "real".
 
I agree, but I am also somewhat sympathetic to people who look around them and see so much suffering in the world, and see evil occurring, and see people seeming to personally benefit from evil acts and not understanding how there can be any good intelligence running such a system behind the scenes. It does make sense once you get it, when you have had the benefit of exposure to spiritual teachings, but sometimes people need help understanding. And I think that is part of the design, partly for the reasons is the quote I included - so people will act well or badly of their own free will - and partly because people learn better when when they think system is "real".
yeah, I get what you're saying. also agree with TES's point about not accepting our complicity... none of us are clean... best we can hope for is try to do our best. the transcript you posted speaks to this as well.
 
yeah, I get what you're saying. also agree with TES's point about not accepting our complicity... none of us are clean... best we can hope for is try to do our best. the transcript you posted speaks to this as well.

Alex,

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Can you post a link or paraphrase TES's point?


Also, there is a huge amount of "evil" that is done by people who think they are doing good.
 
I listened to your conversation with Bruce Fenton with interest. To pursue a more biologically based theory of human hybridization I suggest you explore the work of Dr Eugene McCarthy.

Dr Eugene M. McCarthy at macroevolution.net is a PhD geneticist. He is the author of Avian Hybrids of the World. He is an expert in vertebrate hybridization.

On his website he has a PDF copy of his second book, On the Origins of New Forms of Life A New Theory in which he discusses his hypothesis of pig/chimp hybridization in great detail as the origin of human beings.

My undergraduate degree was in anthropology; primate development and comparative anatomy were a part of the curriculum. Similarities between humans and other primates were discussed. There was little discussion of some of the great differences. McCarthy very clearly discusses human differences from other primates in a way ignored in physical anthropology but very clearly implicates hybridization with pigs.

I suggest that his work complements Fenton’s in an interesting way.

Michael Beal
 
"crazy Battle Royale down here" - Bruce Fenton

LOL! Agreed!, I have seen so much of this nightmare - that I call this realm a hell. I fear most of my flights home, and the depths of depression I have had upon returning from some of these nations/places. It has taken me weeks to recover after several of my projects. I wander through the grocery store or Target, like a zombie - disinterested in anything. It has caused me to examine my life in detail. Reconsider every religious and skepticism notion I ever held.

In this example given by 'fallen souls', we may well be able to forge a definition of 'evil' which transcends violence, or eating another animal, or
What is 'fallen souls'? Is the quote below from it?
culling off the weak, or the having of money or family/home, or desire for sex at the wrong time or in the wrong way. These things are not evil - rather our inexorable reality in which we live. Evil may well be 'that spiritual delusion which serves to cap an individual to a limited plane of existence'.

From my best experience, evil manifests when one party seeks to the role of god over a fellow being, through either the exercise of power or the predicate of self-deception.

Take Responsibility​
If you are to kill, know that you are the killer - and why you have claimed life.
If someone kills to your benefit, know that you are the killer - and why you have done so.
If you are to take, know that you are the taker - and why you have taken.
If someone takes to your benefit, know that you are the taker - and why you have done so.
If you are to benefit from exploitation, know that you exploit - and direct it also to benefit (the theory of capital).
If you are to lie, know that you have lied - and why you have lied (especially to self).
Never self-deceive that you are not these things, simply from not having had to play the game in the first place.
Be whole in what thou has wilt.
Love/Forgive​
Do not play your actions as virtuous, nor the fault of the victim (the theory of ethics).
Never exercise an Intent as god over another being (mistake of the fallen angel).
Never exercise an Intent of god-vengeance (mistake of the demon).
Never assign bad-good to another from that which is merely method (the supposed knowledge of good and evil).
Love is a reasoned commitment to serve, only.

Release those who hold responsibility for harm, from their godship over your soul.
Fallen, is the state in which one performs their group 1 activities under a group 2 delusion.

"Love is a reasoned commitment to serve, only."

Love is a word that is used for many different things.

And what does "a reasoned commitment to serve" mean?

Maybe I misunderstand the author's intent but in a sense, helping others, the best way of helping others, is done because the helper desires to help. If he is just helping because he thinks he is supposed to (reasoned commitment) he will not make the same effort as if he is self motivated. For this reason helping others should be, is in a sense, a selfish act. You do it because you want to, not because you reasoned it out and decided you should do it.

Love is very often confused with wanting and used to describe ego based feelings we love romantically (we want one person but not another) or we love our famiily but not strangers.

In its most spiritual form, wanting to help others comes not from love but from compassion. We feel empathy, we feel others' suffering and we want to ease our own pain by easing their pain. So helping others, in its most spiritual form, is in a sense, selfish, but it is not limited to what we think is "ours". It is not about serving others, it is about easing suffering for everyone. including oneself. When you feel empathy, others' pain is your pain, "we are all one". Easing their suffering is easing your own suffering. And you do it because of feeling not because of reason.

http://www.buddhism.org/?p=1863
In Dropping Ashes on the Buddha we find the story of Won Hyo, the most famous monk of his time in Korea. Won Hyo Sunim one day went to visit the great Zen Master Dae An. Before arriving at the Zen Master’s mountain cave, Won Hyo already heard his beautiful chanting. Upon arriving at the cave he was chagrined to find the old man crying bitterly over the corpse of a dead baby deer. Since the Buddha taught dispassion, as expressed in the Four Great Vows, how could this highly enlightened man be so upset over the death of a deer? Won Hyo asked the Zen Master to explain what had happened. The old monk said that the mother deer had been killed by some hunters, and he had tried to save the baby deer by feeding it milk which he obtained by begging from the nearby village. Because people would not give milk for an animal, he lied that it was needed for his son. “A dirty monk,” they would say, but some would give milk. After a time, however, the nearby villagers refused to give him more milk. He had to go further, and further, and finally after obtaining a little milk, he returned three days later to his cave to find the baby deer already dead from hunger. “You don’t understand,” said the master. “My mind and the fawn’s mind are the same. It was very hungry. It wants milk, I want milk. Now it is dead. Its mind is my mind. That’s why I am weeping. I want milk.” Won Hyo began to understand this man’s great compassion and became his student.
 
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yeah, I get what you're saying. also agree with TES's point about not accepting our complicity... none of us are clean... best we can hope for is try to do our best. the transcript you posted speaks to this as well.

Okay. Maybe I misunderstand the meaning of TES's quote, but I would put it differently. Using strong words like the ones you used, "Complicity" and "clean" and the language in the TES's quote, are going to cause cognitive dissonance in many people and will be counterproductive, it will make them reject what you are trying to communicate.

I would say "we have to accept our faults [enumerate what you think they are if you like] because we are only human and we should learn from our own faults to forgive others". My emphasis is on learning rather than guilt. Learning implies recognizing and acknowledging which is what I think you mean by "accepting complicity" and "none of us is clean", but it gives a positive outlook for the future rather than conveying a bleak dark reality - which is not going to win many converts to your philosophy.
 
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Maybe I misunderstand the author's intent but in a sense, helping others, the best way of helping others, is done because the helper desires to help. If he is just helping because he thinks he is supposed to (reasoned commitment) he will not make the same effort as if he is self motivated. For this reason helping others should be, is in a sense, a selfish act. You do it because you want to, not because you reasoned it out and decided you should do it.

In its most spiritual form, wanting to help others comes not from love but from compassion. We feel empathy, we feel others' suffering and we want to ease our own pain by easing their pain.

A helper desires to help. Yes. The world is full of compassionistas. This is good. But has solved, and will solve very little. The world is wallowing in a surplus of helpers craving emotional reward for their virtuous causes and memberships.

But spiritual strength comes from stepping into the field and doing the hard doing, when the emotional version of mercy we use to make ourselves feel that we are doing something... is no longer good enough. And you want to quit.

There comes a point where you will ask your soul. "Why the heck am I doing this?" The warm and fuzzy feelings are all gone... and one is faced with the choice to stay a hard course, not because of compassion or what you were taught in Kindergarten, but because of something more. Something forged, not simply innate. Where the heart, soul, will and mind all come into abject and real, agreement (reasoned commitment) - not mere acquiescence to a romanticized notion one held because it sounded good.

Spiritual strength ONLY arrives when that inflection point test has been passed. Not before. You begin to find that darkness gets angry now at your mere presence, no longer able to regard you as a feckless useful idiot. Your intent, what you covenant, your life, your pursuits - have power.

Then you know what love is.
 
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Using strong words like the ones you used, "Complicity" and "clean" and the language in the TES's quote, are going to cause cognitive dissonance in many people and will be counterproductive, it will make them reject what you are trying to communicate.

Then it is doing its job. :)

No one is ever convinced upon the hearing of mere words
A question betrays its suspicion, and teflon heart craves familiar phrases
Dissonance is sticky philosophy, a robust and persistent emissary.
 
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A helper desires to help. Yes. The world is full of compassionistas. This is good. But has solved, and will solve very little. The world is wallowing in a surplus of helpers craving emotional reward for their virtuous causes and memberships.

But spiritual strength comes from stepping into the field and doing the hard doing, when the emotional version of mercy we use to make ourselves feel that we are doing something... is no longer good enough. And you want to quit.

There comes a point where you will ask your soul. "Why the heck am I doing this?" The warm and fuzzy feelings are all gone... and one is faced with the choice to stay a hard course, not because of compassion or what you were taught in Kindergarten, but because of something more. Something forged, not simply innate. Where the heart, soul, will and mind all come into abject and real, agreement (reasoned commitment) - not mere acquiescence to a romanticized notion one held because it sounded good.
"heart, soul, will and mind all come into abject and real, agreement (reasoned commitment) "

Oh, so that is how you define "reasoned commitment".

If a helper is getting burned out, they had better take a break and take care of themselves first, or they won't be able to help anyone. Reasoned commitment or not.

Spiritual strength ONLY arrives when that inflection point test has been passed. Not before. You begin to find that darkness gets angry now at your mere presence, no longer able to regard you as a feckless useful idiot. Your intent, what you convenant, your life, your pursuits - have power.

Then you know what love is.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/252241.php
Brain Can't Empathize And Analyze At Same Time, New Study

This is why so many political and economic policies fail. They are thought out by policy wonks doing numerical analyses without considering the human aspects.

People should learn to develop both analytical and emphatic thinking and know when to use each. In the West many people over develop analytical thinking and under develop empathic thinking. Certain forms of meditation can help people develop emphatic thinking.
 
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"heart, soul, will and mind all come into abject and real, agreement (reasoned commitment) "

Oh, so that is how you define "reasoned commitment".

If a helper is getting burned out, they had better take a break and take care of themselves first, or they won't be able to help anyone. Reasoned commitment or not.

This is arguing through ignoratio elenchi and rhetoric. You are not ready to discuss this.
 
I'm been at that untemepered rage state for the whole year and a good portion of last year. I'm tired of being compassionate for the sake of being compassionate. I'm tired of being out casted because I have a different perspective or opinion and am unimpressed by impressionable people who are impressed by obvious charlatans. Who the hell am I doing this for? I don't even think humans are worth the trouble anymore. Even when you open their mind or hearts the default setting resets because this perceived new perception doesn't get people what they want or when they want it. They usually crawl back to their comfort zones, very few are willing to go deeper or all the way, example Nietschze. It's like we are on a merry go round the spin is same. Precious time is being wasted for a society so dependent on bad habits I feel they should just rot away, their lack of progress is a detriment to society. This is why we are seeing a liking to anti hero's or anti villian we are imo the good guys... Thanos, Killmonger and Joker
 
... helping others, the best way of helping others, is done because the helper desires to help. If he is just helping because he thinks he is supposed to ... he will not make the same effort as if he is self motivated. For this reason helping others should be, is in a sense, a selfish act. You do it because you want to, ...

Love is very often confused with wanting and used to describe ego based feelings: we love romantically (we want one person but not another) or we love our famiily but not strangers.

In its most spiritual form, wanting to help others comes not from love but from compassion. We feel empathy, we feel others' suffering and we want to ease our own pain by easing their pain. So helping others, in its most spiritual form, is in a sense, selfish, but it is not limited to what we think is "ours". It is not about serving others, it is about easing suffering for everyone. including oneself. When you feel empathy, others' pain is your pain, "we are all one". Easing their suffering is easing your own suffering. And you do it because of feeling not because of reason.

http://www.buddhism.org/?p=1863
In Dropping Ashes on the Buddha we find the story of Won Hyo, the most famous monk of his time in Korea. Won Hyo Sunim one day went to visit the great Zen Master Dae An. Before arriving at the Zen Master’s mountain cave, Won Hyo already heard his beautiful chanting. Upon arriving at the cave he was chagrined to find the old man crying bitterly over the corpse of a dead baby deer. Since the Buddha taught dispassion, as expressed in the Four Great Vows, how could this highly enlightened man be so upset over the death of a deer? Won Hyo asked the Zen Master to explain what had happened. The old monk said that the mother deer had been killed by some hunters, and he had tried to save the baby deer by feeding it milk which he obtained by begging from the nearby village. Because people would not give milk for an animal, he lied that it was needed for his son. “A dirty monk,” they would say, but some would give milk. After a time, however, the nearby villagers refused to give him more milk. He had to go further, and further, and finally after obtaining a little milk, he returned three days later to his cave to find the baby deer already dead from hunger. “You don’t understand,” said the master. “My mind and the fawn’s mind are the same. It was very hungry. It wants milk, I want milk. Now it is dead. Its mind is my mind. That’s why I am weeping. I want milk.” Won Hyo began to understand this man’s great compassion and became his student.

The law of karma could be called the law of oneness.

The law of karma is: good actions have good consequences, bad actions have bad consequences.

When you help another person, you are helping yourself. When you harm another person you are harming yourself.

Eventually everyone will learn this truth, in this life or the next. Here or in the hereafter.

It is why everyone will inevitably progress along the path of goodness.

We are all connected. It is part of reality, like a natural law.
 
Okay. Maybe I misunderstand the meaning of TES's quote, but I would put it differently. Using strong words like the ones you used, "Complicity" and "clean" and the language in the TES's quote, are going to cause cognitive dissonance in many people and will be counterproductive, it will make them reject what you are trying to communicate.

I would say "we have to accept our faults [enumerate what you think they are if you like] because we are only human and we should learn from our own faults to forgive others". My emphasis is on learning rather than guilt. Learning implies recognizing and acknowledging which is what I think you mean by "accepting complicity" and "none of us is clean", but it gives a positive outlook for the future rather than conveying a bleak dark reality - which is not going to win many converts to your philosophy.

I understand your comment, Jim. I understand also that I am one of the few that sometimes benefits from a direct smackdown... you did say, "...in many people." You didn't say all. Having said this, I am of the school of - "Don't beat around the bush."

I not only didn't reject what TES and Alex pointed to regarding personal responsibility and "complicity" and "clean," I fully appreciated it for its directness and truthfulness (speaking only for myself by the way). If we are to avoid being direct because we are concerned this would cause "cognitive dissonance" then why do we even bother at all?

Either you are an immortal soul (that has the option to dissolve if ever you want to into the eternal Oneness of All) or you are not. If you are, why be afraid? What is there to be afraid of? Isn't unrecognized fears the primary responsible emotion that results in someone choosing (yes, IMO it is a choice) the path of cognitive dissonance? If you are not an immortal soul then what does any of this matter anyways?

Seems simple to me.

Ohhhh and for those who might conclude otherwise, non of what I suggested above about "soul" has to have anything to do with religion. I don't "do" religion. I am only interested in the nature and science of being and explore that from a perspecive of my perception of "self" within an infinite sea of consciousness.
 
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The law of karma could be called the law of oneness.

The law of karma is: good actions have good consequences, bad actions have bad consequences.

When you help another person, you are helping yourself. When you harm another person you are harming yourself.

Eventually everyone will learn this truth, in this life or the next. Here or in the hereafter.

It is why everyone will inevitably progress along the path of goodness.

We are all connected. It is part of reality, like a natural law.
That's the new age definition of karma
 
Either you are an immortal soul (that has the option to dissolve if ever you want to into the eternal Oneness of All) or you are not.

Soul that commits suicide by dissolving into the "eternal oneness of all" is not immortal. It ceases to exist.
 
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