Can materialistic science answer life’s big questions? |317|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, May 27, 2016.

  1. Stephen Wright

    Stephen Wright New

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    Maybe my take on this is too simple to be understood. Objects move without physical contact all the time -- from gravity. One can say they have "physical" contact through gravitons, but since they are not empirically detected, I challenge they are more than informational descriptions of "connectedness".
    Further, I see no difference in the connectedness at a quantum scale of events or at a cosmological scale. It appears that all we can record on our instruments, as material and energy, seems to interact at some level of probability, especially if everything was entangled at the big bang.

    Entanglement is a simple concept, if viewed as an informational structure and an active connectedness between particles. This just doesn't make sense in a materialistic paradigm, where thinking is not as "really real" as walking. Isn't thinking an entanglement of ideas that can generate structures like plans?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  2. Alex

    Alex New

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    yeah, but sometimes the spirit world seems to come calling whether you're looking for it or not... but I get your point, this is the Shamanic journey kinda thing.

    but we have a long history of spiritually advanced beings with expanded knowledge being among us. so we have the shedding of knowledge like you're talking about, but we also have the embodying.
     
  3. Alex

    Alex New

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    wow... very cool point. thx.
     
  4. Seemed relevant (for the spirit part, I'm not as convinced by the side remark that Jesus never existed which seems like whole separate convo, along with most of the other societal commentary):

    Sacrifice And Its Discontents: An Extradimensional Exchange Mechanism


    There's even a bit about global financial mortals as archons:

     
  5. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Unfortunately, the illustrations within the text are quite unpleasant :(

    David
     
  6. True, but let's say those blood hungry spirits of old were still around, wanting a fix...where do they go? What do they do?

    Claim to be gods and start a new religion? Seems difficult, an uphill climb at best if not a recipe for failure.

    Or just impersonate the gods of other religions and get the machine going again?
     
  7. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    I feel like believing in a creator is giving away our power our human potentials. I like to believe we are all our own gods a bunch of neos waiting to be awakened
     
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  8. Kamarling

    Kamarling Member

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    I apologise in advance that I have not read all of this thread. I arrived at the subject from the Skeptiko web page: http://www.skeptiko.com/can-science-answer-big-questions-317/#comment-21957

    This is a copy/paste of the comment I left on that page:

     
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  9. Supernatural Horror, Spiritual Awakening, and the Demonic Divine

    In context, the selected quotation from the William James' link:

    "
    ...Here is the real core of the religious problem: Help! help! No prophet can claim to bring a final message unless he says things that will have a sound of reality in the ears of victims such as these. But the deliverance must come in as strong a form as the complaint, if it is to take effect; and that seems a reason why the coarser religions, revivalistic, orgiastic, with blood and miracles and supernatural operations, may possibly never be displaced. Some constitutions need them too much...

    ...It may indeed be that no religious reconciliation with the absolute totality of things is possible. Some evils, indeed, are ministerial to higher forms of good; but it may be that there are forms of evil so extreme as to enter into no good system whatsoever, and that, in respect of such evil, dumb submission or neglect to notice is the only practical resource. This question must confront us on a later day. But provisionally, and as a mere matter of program and method, since the evil facts are as genuine parts of nature as the good ones, the philosophic presumption should be that they have some rational significance, and that systematic healthy-mindedness, failing as it does to accord to sorrow, pain, and death any positive and active attention whatever, is formally less complete than systems that try at least to include these elements in their scope.

    The completest religions would therefore seem to be those in which the pessimistic elements are best developed. Buddhism, of course, and Christianity are the best known to us of these. They are essentially religions of deliverance: the man must die to an unreal life before he can be born into the real life. In my next lecture, I will try to discuss some of the psychological conditions of this second birth. Fortunately from now onward we shall have to deal with more cheerful subjects than those which we have recently been dwelling on..."


    Where it gets a bit overdone, IMO, is James includes the pain animals feel in their natural environment. I don't know if this counts as "evil", especially since in this particular part of Varities James complains about the very existence of reptiles.

    I also wonder if James, confronted with a modern internet and global financial system, would note that many ills can in fact be dealt with if we're willing to put in the effort. Of course there is a question whether metaphysical/spiritual positions that explain (away?) suffering as a test or learning experience reduce the effort put into solving this worlds' problems. (Note I don't think is necessarily the case - see various religious charities and such.)

    I wonder how many people outside the Western world really feel there are Cosmic Monstrosities? Where a Westerner might see the Devil on God's throne it seems to me a person whose spirituality is indigenous might just see a spirit (or sub-level mental "node") that can be easily banished.

    Even if there is an Evil God it may not have the kind of dominion one assumes due to personal experiences. There can still, as Laird points out, be a Good God engaged in a conflict.

    Personally I suspect if there is a spiritual world (or set of worlds/universes) it seems more likely to me we'd be dealing with beings very much like ourselves but with additional abilities/freedom? As Gordon White once suggested, "The spirits are real but the gods are in your head."
     


  10. Today we take on one of the largest philosophical mysteries; what Dr. Farrell refers to as the Topological Metaphor. In a roller coaster of a talk, we touch many aspects and derivatives of this fundamental structure of existence - historically, esoterically, theologically & politically. What is this fingerprint of Creation? Where do we find its traces? How is it best grasped through symbolism, numbers, music & geometry? Was it part of a prehistoric understanding? How does modern science relate to it? How is this open abundance system opposed to the closed scarcity system? And we learn about the first Unified Field Theory in known history!
     
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