Closer to the Truth interviews with Josephson and Wolf

#1

Short and not really providing anything new, but I enjoyed them. As expected, the comments are priceless.


Sidenote: For anyone who has watched Brooklyn 99, Wolf is absolutely an older doppelganger of Pimento lol
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#6
#8
You know an expert when you hear it...
Such a cogent reasoning, strong arguments, clear thinking... coincidences and beliefs are definitely the killer argument against Ψ

Would make a good extra chapter in Braude's "Crimes of Reson" :D
Bruce Hood isn't aware that he's making an unsubstantiated claim about all "paranormal" results being explicable by resorting to coincidence and/or unsubstantiated beliefs. Malf may care to check this out:


Here, contrary to what Hood opines, Dean Radin shows that there have been a number of experiments showing that mind can affect matter, at levels of certainty which were enough to merit a Nobel prize for the existence of the Higgs boson. Hood gets a prize of his own for refusing to look through Galileo's telescope (you'll understand the reference when you check out the video).
 
#9
Is anyone aware of any double slit like experiments that attempted to test non-human consciousness (if such thing actually exists)? i.e., what would happen if you could somehow set up a test for, say, a dog to be the "observer"?
 
#10
Is anyone aware of any double slit like experiments that attempted to test non-human consciousness (if such thing actually exists)? i.e., what would happen if you could somehow set up a test for, say, a dog to be the "observer"?
The problem I see is how do you make a dog interact with the experiment?
Given that distance doesn't seem relevant, what would be the difference of having a dog near the machine rather than a few hundred meters (or kilometers) away?

If remote meditators work as well as local ones the problem is just one of focusing the attention on the experiment. So I suspect dogs would cause the same effect that distracted meditators cause... I guess...
 
#11
Bruce Hood isn't aware that he's making an unsubstantiated claim about all "paranormal" results being explicable by resorting to coincidence and/or unsubstantiated beliefs. Malf may care to check this out:


Here, contrary to what Hood opines, Dean Radin shows that there have been a number of experiments showing that mind can affect matter, at levels of certainty which were enough to merit a Nobel prize for the existence of the Higgs boson. Hood gets a prize of his own for refusing to look through Galileo's telescope (you'll understand the reference when you check out the video).
Whether there is something going on or not (and I tend to believe there is), I wouldn't bother referring to Radin's experiments as evidence. I've looked at a few of his papers, and they couldn't get published anywhere they specialise in this technology, because the reasons for his results are almost certainly straight forward.

For example, he designs an experiment so people concentrate when a buzzer goes off... and yes, we see a change in the equipment output when people concentrate, but that's because of sound vibrations affecting the equipment. In another example, he designs an experiment to test the effects of group meditation in the field using an RNG. He uses a laptop running on batteries in the field, and measures an effect on the RNG output over time during these meditation sessions. He then compares these field results to the control results he gets when testing the same equipment in the lab, they are significant. But in the lab he runs the equipment from mains power, and his choice of RNG is well known to be affected by a voltage drop. When running the laptop in the field, there is naturally a power drop in the laptops batteries. So what we see is actually the effect of running an RNG off batteries over time, compared with running off a stable power supply.

ION's needs customers, and Radin is a big star... but frankly as far as I'm concerned, Radin is simply an excellent showman of his time, like the spiritualists mediums were in the past. I'm absolutely happy that Radin and ION's produce effects which look interesting to the general public by using the technologies of the time, but actually their results have little substance as far as showing real paranormal effects.

It's very hard to see these things when you're living in the same age, and trying to understand the results provided by people using new technologies, but as far as his experiments go, the ones I've looked at are worthless.
 
#12
The problem I see is how do you make a dog interact with the experiment?
Given that distance doesn't seem relevant, what would be the difference of having a dog near the machine rather than a few hundred meters (or kilometers) away?

If remote meditators work as well as local ones the problem is just one of focusing the attention on the experiment. So I suspect dogs would cause the same effect that distracted meditators cause... I guess...
Well, I was thinking more of the basic phenomena of the interference pattern/non-interference pattern aspect.

I found the question asked here (question 7): https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1228

It was a naïve question (obviously). ;)
 
#13
Whether there is something going on or not (and I tend to believe there is), I wouldn't bother referring to Radin's experiments as evidence. I've looked at a few of his papers, and they couldn't get published anywhere they specialise in this technology, because the reasons for his results are almost certainly straight forward.

For example, he designs an experiment so people concentrate when a buzzer goes off... and yes, we see a change in the equipment output when people concentrate, but that's because of sound vibrations affecting the equipment. In another example, he designs an experiment to test the effects of group meditation in the field using an RNG. He uses a laptop running on batteries in the field, and measures an effect on the RNG output over time during these meditation sessions. He then compares these field results to the control results he gets when testing the same equipment in the lab, they are significant. But in the lab he runs the equipment from mains power, and his choice of RNG is well known to be affected by a voltage drop. When running the laptop in the field, there is naturally a power drop in the laptops batteries. So what we see is actually the effect of running an RNG off batteries over time, compared with running off a stable power supply.

ION's needs customers, and Radin is a big star... but frankly as far as I'm concerned, Radin is simply an excellent showman of his time, like the spiritualists mediums were in the past. I'm absolutely happy that Radin and ION's produce effects which look interesting to the general public by using the technologies of the time, but actually their results have little substance as far as showing real paranormal effects.

It's very hard to see these things when you're living in the same age, and trying to understand the results provided by people using new technologies, but as far as his experiments go, the ones I've looked at are worthless.
Seems like his effort at controls, at least for the experiment related to non-locality using the internet, are pretty solid. I'm basing that solely off his presentation in the video of course.
 
#14
Seems like his effort at controls, at least for the experiment related to non-locality using the internet, are pretty solid. I'm basing that solely off his presentation in the video of course.
I had to read his papers, then learn about the ways his experimental set-up might lead to the measured effects.... as I've gained more knowledge about the technology he uses... the measured effects turn out to be totally explainable. In all the papers I've read, Dean is very careful not to claim he has demonstrated a real anomalous effect. He delivers the presentations as summary's of his papers, where the detail upon which the experimental results hang, is missing. So everything looks fine... I once thought as you did.

The only question for me is whether he is aware of what he is doing, or not? It's intriguing to me that he might not be aware... some of the issues in his papers are so obvious that I scratch my head... like comparing the results of an experiment run on batteries, compared with an experiment run on mains power... then suggesting the difference between these two experimental results is caused by something other than the equipment's power supply... and that, when the particular sensory equipment he is using is known to be *highly affected* by changes in voltage.
 
#15
Whether there is something going on or not (and I tend to believe there is), I wouldn't bother referring to Radin's experiments as evidence. I've looked at a few of his papers, and they couldn't get published anywhere they specialise in this technology, because the reasons for his results are almost certainly straight forward.

For example, he designs an experiment so people concentrate when a buzzer goes off... and yes, we see a change in the equipment output when people concentrate, but that's because of sound vibrations affecting the equipment. In another example, he designs an experiment to test the effects of group meditation in the field using an RNG. He uses a laptop running on batteries in the field, and measures an effect on the RNG output over time during these meditation sessions. He then compares these field results to the control results he gets when testing the same equipment in the lab, they are significant. But in the lab he runs the equipment from mains power, and his choice of RNG is well known to be affected by a voltage drop. When running the laptop in the field, there is naturally a power drop in the laptops batteries. So what we see is actually the effect of running an RNG off batteries over time, compared with running off a stable power supply.

ION's needs customers, and Radin is a big star... but frankly as far as I'm concerned, Radin is simply an excellent showman of his time, like the spiritualists mediums were in the past. I'm absolutely happy that Radin and ION's produce effects which look interesting to the general public by using the technologies of the time, but actually their results have little substance as far as showing real paranormal effects.

It's very hard to see these things when you're living in the same age, and trying to understand the results provided by people using new technologies, but as far as his experiments go, the ones I've looked at are worthless.
Does Radin necessarily run his laptop off batteries in the field? Couldn't he plug it into the mains wherever he happens to go? Have you checked that? Also, he quotes other experimenters who get similar results. What about them? Did they use battery power, or what? I'd ask, does he explictly say that he runs his laptop off batteries in the field, or is that an assumption you've made? Have you contacted him to run your objection past him to see what he has to say?

In general, I'm not saying you're either right or wrong, but I am wondering whether you've checked your facts with Radin himself, and what his response would be to your ad hominem attack on his integrity, calling him a showman whose experiments have little substance...are in fact worthless.

Finally, can you point me to any work you consider more watertight than Radin's? Or are you simply taking every opportunity to rubbish claims of psi phenomena? You say that you tend to believe something is going on, but I have my doubts about that, frankly. You could just be trolling, seeking to cast doubt on psi whilst pleading open mindedness.
 
#16
Finally, can you point me to any work you consider more watertight than Radin's? Or are you simply taking every opportunity to rubbish claims of psi phenomena? You say that you tend to believe something is going on, but I have my doubts about that, frankly. You could just be trolling, seeking to cast doubt on psi whilst pleading open mindedness.
I don't think he's here to troll anyone, He's contributed some interesting theories on matters discussed on this site, and while I don't share his views, I respect his opinions.
 
#17
I don't think he's here to troll anyone, He's contributed some interesting theories on matters discussed on this site, and while I don't share his views, I respect his opinions.
I agree. He can come off as a bit of an ass sometimes, but hey, so can I. I am interested to see what he has to say about Michael's other questions.
 
#18
Does Radin necessarily run his laptop off batteries in the field? Couldn't he plug it into the mains wherever he happens to go? Have you checked that? Also, he quotes other experimenters who get similar results. What about them? Did they use battery power, or what? I'd ask, does he explictly say that he runs his laptop off batteries in the field, or is that an assumption you've made? Have you contacted him to run your objection past him to see what he has to say?

In general, I'm not saying you're either right or wrong, but I am wondering whether you've checked your facts with Radin himself, and what his response would be to your ad hominem attack on his integrity, calling him a showman whose experiments have little substance...are in fact worthless.

Finally, can you point me to any work you consider more watertight than Radin's? Or are you simply taking every opportunity to rubbish claims of psi phenomena? You say that you tend to believe something is going on, but I have my doubts about that, frankly. You could just be trolling, seeking to cast doubt on psi whilst pleading open mindedness.
You can read Radin's published papers for yourself, they are generally quite easy to get hold of...

http://www.deanradin.com/papers/RNG Mason.pdf

Quote from his paper (above):

"...The field recordings used a battery source for the laptop and a time-stamped marker for recording sections of interest...."
 
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#19
I don't think all Radin's results can be as easily be explained away as something to do with power supply. Taking the example with the random generators as they are used in e.g. the Global Consciousness project I think it's very unlikely any correlation in the eggs has anything to do with the power supply, Admittedly there are many other short comings in this particular experiment but power supply is probably not high on the list.
 
#20
You can read Radin's published papers for yourself, they are generally quite easy to get hold of...

http://www.deanradin.com/papers/RNG Mason.pdf

Quote from his paper (above):

"...The field recordings used a battery source for the laptop and a time-stamped marker for recording sections of interest...."
The complete quote says:

"The RS-232 port was tested for accurate minimum voltage (> 5V) with the actual voltage at 8.9 volts. The field recordings used a battery source for the laptop and a time-stamped marker for recording sections of interest."

It's ambiguous whether he means that the voltage was checked in the battery-powered tests, or only in the mains-driven ones. One would need to check with him to be sure. At any rate, he appears to be aware of possible voltage issues and I can't for the life of me imagine if he is, why he would have checked it for the mains tests but not the battery ones.

Also, you haven't answered my question about other similar experiments carried out by other researchers, and nor, since you think there might be something to it, which experiments you consider more watertight. Enquiring minds would like to know...
 
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