Conner Habib, on Progressives Disconnect From Spirituality |401|

#41
Beat a dog his whole life and you end up with a pretty unfriendly dog. This isn't hard to understand.

If I put your soul in that young man's shoes you'd be begging me to put you back in your own. You're soft. They'd eat you alive. Your corporate skills do not translate to the street.

As for the "freebies" we have enough resources to make sure everyone has a good living and it would be way cheaper than it is now. It would be irresponsible to lift everyone to the level of the 1% as the Earth couldn't even sustain it, but we could all have what we need and then some.

Let me put this in sociopathic conservative terms for you: let's say you were bothered by seeing all these homeless people around and I said I could get rid of them for you for $0.05 a piece. I'd have to chainsaw them up and dip them in a bath of acid, but it might be worth the cost to you just to give you a better view from your balcony.

Now what if everyone paid $0.05 a piece and instead we educated them and helped them become better people? If we treated their mental health problems and gave them a place to live and made them into productive citizens. Now they might even be one of your employees, or they might invent the cure for cancer, or who knows what? You all suffer from a failure of imagination and your ideas will be left in history where they belong.

The people you denigrate are going to be here whether you like it or not; the question is, is the head so stupid that it thinks it can ignore the gangrene in the feet? Ignore it at your own peril.
Fine you win by virtue of impeccable logic and deep insight into the human condition; not to mention a finely honed knowledge of microeconomics and history.

I quit. Everything. I declare myself an old workhorse that can no longer pull the plow.

Sign me up! I want my 5 cents from everyone so I can have a fulfilling life for my remaining years.

I'm going to pass the word around to all the other workhorses I know. I will encourage them to teach their children to not be workhorses. We will all live off others people's money.
 
#42
It's really funny that you called me out on that because that's exactly what that passage means. Dead on. He's talking about the spiritual economy; basically saying anyone who repents and accepts Jesus gets to go to Jesus-Land even if at the last minute. BUT, I absolutely love using it as an economic metaphor because I truly think one of our major problems is people looking over other people's shoulders and griping about what they're getting.

The cost of capitalism is too damn high and really all it does is pay off rich people, enslave the poor to strike fear in the middle class, and funnel wealth upwards, so... as a dutiful thrifty capitalist I'd like to buy a better system please.
Yes, a better metaphor Jesus could have used is in the minting of a sovereign coin (or monetary instrument). Some 'coins' derive their value from the hard labor of millions of people through taxation on their sweat and suffering. Other sovereigns gain their value from borrowing capital from a more powerful economic entity who can bear the dilution (Jesus' Kingdom he claimed). Either way, the sovereign coin is stamped with the image and trust of the sovereign itself (The Seal of the Sovereign), and is registered as equal currency. The strength of the sovereign is used as the capital backing - and not simply the tally of total labor and sweat on the part of the populace.

But if nobody in the nation provides value, this is simply a trick to enrich the ministers of that nation which does this. This happens over and over and over in socialist nations. I map these declines in my case studies to nations I work with. Which brings us to the present day.

You must understand that accrual of wealth to the elite ranks is a socialist, not a capitalist activity (although this process may start inside capitalist activity at first). Capital is not wealth. Capital (M1 and M0) is money which is burdened with the task of 1. Velocity and 2. Return. In other words, justifying its keep. Wealth (M3 and M2) never justifies itself - it just sits and pretends as if it were the sovereign 'Kingdom of Heaven' on Earth (an imitation of God in this role) - the unlimited source of immediate value. This is why royalty and socialism have presided hand in hand as secret partners over the last 4500 years of human suffering and failure. They are the same thing. Wealthy elites entertaining themselves at how well they can help the 'underprivileged'. All this does is kill value, kill capital, kill human dignity. False gods on Earth... always = human suffering.

Capital in contrast, is earnings (pre-wealth) - it is recycled at the M1 and M0 ecosphere level, which means that the elite cannot get their hands on it. They hate this. Capital empowers the middle class and does not enrich anyone's stand-in role as pretend gods. Capital is re-deployed directly into the middle class, in order to establish need-meeting businesses and employ everyone inside that role. Taxing and redistributing to the lower class is a method of economic warfare on the part of the 1% elite - it is a virtue-concealed means of converting M1 and M0 back into M3 (their hoard). Hoarding wealth is the habit of socialism, not capitalism. Our ills are stemming from creeping socialism (in which the 1% own 100% of everything)... see below...

The reintroduction of socialist collapse.

You will notice historically that the consolidation of money into few hands usually presages a war in which a global-aspiration socialist entity must be defeated, and then prosperity re-ensues. This is not a coincidence.

 
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#43
Never forget that everyone you meet is a fractal of god. Including yourself. There is something to be learned from every person on this Earth and no one has the right to decide who lives and who dies. We are here as stewards of the earth and of each other's dignity, autonomy, and the preservation of as much as freedom can allow before it starts infringing on others. Dividing ourselves further is not working.

// Re: statistics and charts man, In the video I posted it explained how there are different types of socialism (just as some would prefer to call what we're in now as crony capitalism, i say it always goes crony) and there are power grabs from the few over the many that come in all sorts of guises and -isms. We're in one now. I would like to see a democratic revolution where the socialized fabric is held aloft and distributed by the people and every corporation was a group of people that have invested together and shared the risk and share the reward and together decide what to do with it (reinvest? keg party? bonuses for all?) We need a populace that can drive the bus of state by itself in a distributed fashion to minimize corruption and that means we need to all be able to think and work together in a distributed network and we need as many processors as we can get. We are the A.I. we've been waiting for. Coming soon...
 
#44
every corporation was a group of people that have invested together and shared the risk and share the reward and together decide what to do with it (reinvest? keg party? bonuses for all?)
Exactly. I call this inspiring local business capital infusion, integral capital. It does not build Cronies - rather produces investment in hard working citizens who are rewarded for their 1. ability to solve a problem, 2. ability to inspire and 3. hard work. NO CRONIES....

I have started and built 8 companies now - and I ran them all this way. It was just a blast to work like that. I have several more businesses in the works but I cannot get capital for that sized business - because these businesses are reserved for the Crony Class only. They will not let a low life like me, develop these good ideas and threaten their wealth hold.

From my experience with the Crony Crowd, up close and personal... they get joy out of deception and taking advantage of people. $20 Billion is not enough for them... they want more, and they use their connections to get more. And yet, still get a giggle out of screwing an employee for $1,000 through a bit of 'ha! I outsmarted you!' sleight-of-hand.
 
#47
yeah man. that's it! it's a great vision.



fdgasfhd.png

Give me a reality in which:

1. Everyone is highly educated and no one has chosen to be poor
2. Everyone is a good person, without ulterior motives, and their only need is to work and sleep
3. Unlimited Energy comes from magical tubes in plentiful clean and safe availability with just three guys wearing a red shirt tending to it
4. Every material need simply appears in a little cubby hole in your quarters.
5. The building is provided (not produced) for free and can move anywhere in the Galaxy at no cost or effort on anyone's part
6. There is 3,000 sq ft of living space per person - which never generates trash nor needs to be cleaned
7. You have a Holodeck for entertainment
8. Counselor Troi lives next door to your cabin and wears see-through nighties off duty & carries no inhibitions and can never get pregnant nor sue you. There are no rules on fraternization or boss-employee festivities...
9. Alcohol intoxicates but does not dull senses nor give a hangover. Addicts don't exist.
10. You work 100 meters from where you live and you walk in between
11. There are no taxes, medicine can fix any malady known to man, and is just down the hall from you and the doctor wants to just work 24 hours a day with no pay, retirement, convalescence nor children to care about.
12. Your weapons can outmatch anyone in the galaxy. There is no mafia, no cartels, and no Bolshevism.
13. Your warship does not require a military industrial complex of infrastructure companies - things just magically work on their own
14. Nothing needs maintenance, nothing breaks down. No one ages or has any pain.
15. You job only requires making a couple hand gestures and sounding authoritative every now and then
16. Enemies are always goof-balls and exhibit the worst of humanity.
17. Space presents very few threats to your technology
18. To do your job you just sit in a chair and look photographic & you never get sick or feel bad
19. No logistics, budgets, plans, spare parts, warehouses or supply chains are required
20. No Command Control Communications and Intelligence is required -
21. A computer accompanies you which knows everything and requires no IT staff or contractors
22. Androids will work 26 hours a day, 365 days a year- not even needing food or a toilet - and never complain
23. You will retire to your family's $50 million vineyard when you quit the service...
24. You have no children to care for, humans just magically keep showing up at age 26, fully trained and mature...
25. You spend about 1 hour each day (give or take commercials) - in this 'reality'
26. Nobody questions reality and everyone knows exactly what death is, and is not afraid of it.
27. Everyone you encounter, lives in exactly the same circumstances as do you, recognizes you as an authority upon first meeting, all think like you do, and only have one human-flaw at a time - a flaw with which for some reason, you are intimately familiar, despite that human-flaw not ever having existed in your reality at all.

Give me all these miracles - and YES, socialism will work. In fact ANY-ISM will work in this environment.

But if you live in the real world, you have to be smarter, more ethical and better.... Capitalism.....
 
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#48
Beat a dog his whole life and you end up with a pretty unfriendly dog. This isn't hard to understand.

If I put your soul in that young man's shoes you'd be begging me to put you back in your own. You're soft. They'd eat you alive. Your corporate skills do not translate to the street.

As for the "freebies" we have enough resources to make sure everyone has a good living and it would be way cheaper than it is now. It would be irresponsible to lift everyone to the level of the 1% as the Earth couldn't even sustain it, but we could all have what we need and then some.

Let me put this in sociopathic conservative terms for you: let's say you were bothered by seeing all these homeless people around and I said I could get rid of them for you for $0.05 a piece. I'd have to chainsaw them up and dip them in a bath of acid, but it might be worth the cost to you just to give you a better view from your balcony.

Now what if everyone paid $0.05 a piece and instead we educated them and helped them become better people? If we treated their mental health problems and gave them a place to live and made them into productive citizens. Now they might even be one of your employees, or they might invent the cure for cancer, or who knows what? You all suffer from a failure of imagination and your ideas will be left in history where they belong.

The people you denigrate are going to be here whether you like it or not; the question is, is the head so stupid that it thinks it can ignore the gangrene in the feet? Ignore it at your own peril.
Also for Eric Newhill:

Pardon me for interrupting a good argument while the feathers are still flying, but I wonder if you recognize points that you have in agreement?

Curiously, you both seem to see yourselves as victims of the same Capitalist system, whether through paying too much taxes; or through the wealth not being spread far and wide enough.

You both don't disagree that our economic system is a belief in "progress" based on "competition" which creates "winners" and "losers" - Social Darwinism.

As for the character, race or religion arguments, you do realize that no man-made political or economic system can change our basic human nature - whether Socialism or Capitalism ?
 
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#49
Also for Eric Newhill:

Pardon me for interrupting a good argument while the feathers are still flying, but I wonder if you recognize points that you have in agreement?

Curiously, you both seem to see yourselves as victims of the same Capitalist system, whether through paying too much taxes; or through the wealth not being spread far and wide enough.

You don't disagree that our economic system is a belief in "progress" based on "competition" which creates "winners" and "losers" - Social Darwinism.

As for the character, race or religion arguments, you do realize that no man-made political or economic system can change our basic human nature - whether Socialism or Capitalism ?
Ohio,

First off, everyone has a right to gripe, don't they?

Capitalism does involve social Darwinism. I agree. It maximizes production and value given the flawed nature of humans. Socialism/Communism rely on a new kind of man being created - which ain't gonna happen and which is why they fail (or one of the big reasons).

Our system of capitalism is not a *belief* in progress like socialism is a cultish belief. Capitalism is demonstrated to have resulted in material progress - whereas socialism has the opposite result. You can talk about spiritual development versus material all you want, but I think most people greatly underestimate the material,physical and emotional pain and suffering that the average person used to experience due to pre-industrial/pre-capitalism lack of material development. For crying out loud, even the wealthiest women used to die all the time in childbirth. Diseases took their children on a regular basis. Death and loss were everywhere. ... Even the "losers" are much better off today than many winners were a mere 150 years ago when capitalism was in its infancy. Capitalism is most definitely a tide that raises all boats. Too many people get caught up in jealousy of the top winners. And, as I said previously, it is ignorant to hold that if someone has a lot then others must have little. I repeat that there is not a finite amount of money (=value).

I don't see myself as a victim of taxes or anything else. I'm am literally explaining the microeconomic decision I will make if socialists take over and want more out of me. I will quit being a producer and become a taker. That is the rational choice, despite Gamey's decree that it is my cosmic destiny to be a "workhorse" = LOL - that's the only way his simpleton scheme has the remotest chance of working. If I am fated to be a Jungian archetype/ AKA a slave for my saggy pants plantation owners.

I guess I have it coming because "The Man" has somehow beaten on saggy pants- the poor thing has no agency at all :-( - and Saggy is owed reparations and a victorious revolution or some stupid Marxist crap like that. I think it's funny that cubicle guy is schooling me on the conditions of life for Saggy like he'd know anything about it. More fantasy on his part. Not worth talking to because not grounded in reality or deciplined rational discourse.
 
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#50
"But if you live in the real world, you have to be smarter, more ethical and better.... Capitalism..... "

An equal strawman can be built against capitalism, but that is not an interesting avenue of argument for me.

However, not trying to derail this discussion, I humbly suggest you deeply look into the discussion/differences between capitalism vs free markets vs unconstrained competition. They are not the same, nor do we have real world pure examples of any of these in real human societies (all have capital restrictions, market restrictions and competition restrictions).
 
#51
yeah man. that's it! it's a great vision.



View attachment 1129

Give me a reality in which:

1. Everyone is highly educated and no one has chosen to be poor
2. Everyone is a good person, without ulterior motives, and their only need is to work and sleep
3. Unlimited Energy comes from magical tubes in plentiful clean and safe availability with just three guys wearing a red shirt tending to it
4. Every material need simply appears in a little cubby hole in your quarters.
5. The building is provided (not produced) for free and can move anywhere in the Galaxy at no cost or effort on anyone's part
6. There is 3,000 sq ft of living space per person - which never generates trash nor needs to be cleaned
7. You have a Holodeck for entertainment
8. Counselor Troi lives next door to your cabin and wears see-through nighties off duty & carries no inhibitions and can never get pregnant nor sue you. There are no rules on fraternization or boss-employee festivities...
9. Alcohol intoxicates but does not dull senses nor give a hangover. Addicts don't exist.
10. You work 100 meters from where you live and you walk in between
11. There are no taxes, medicine can fix any malady known to man, and is just down the hall from you and the doctor wants to just work 24 hours a day with no pay, retirement, convalescence nor children to care about.
12. Your weapons can outmatch anyone in the galaxy. There is no mafia, no cartels, and no Bolshevism.
13. Your warship does not require a military industrial complex of infrastructure companies - things just magically work on their own
14. Nothing needs maintenance, nothing breaks down. No one ages or has any pain.
15. You job only requires making a couple hand gestures and sounding authoritative every now and then
16. Enemies are always goof-balls and exhibit the worst of humanity.
17. Space presents very few threats to your technology
18. To do your job you just sit in a chair and look photographic & you never get sick or feel bad
19. No logistics, budgets, plans, spare parts, warehouses or supply chains are required
20. No Command Control Communications and Intelligence is required -
21. A computer accompanies you which knows everything and requires no IT staff or contractors
22. Androids will work 26 hours a day, 365 days a year- not even needing food or a toilet - and never complain
23. You will retire to your family's $50 million vineyard when you quit the service...
24. You have no children to care for, humans just magically keep showing up at age 26, fully trained and mature...
25. You spend about 1 hour each day (give or take commercials) - in this 'reality'
26. Nobody questions reality and everyone knows exactly what death is, and is not afraid of it.
27. Everyone you encounter, lives in exactly the same circumstances as do you, recognizes you as an authority upon first meeting, all think like you do, and only have one human-flaw at a time - a flaw with which for some reason, you are intimately familiar, despite that human-flaw not ever having existed in your reality at all.

Give me all these miracles - and YES, socialism will work. In fact ANY-ISM will work in this environment.

But if you live in the real world, you have to be smarter, more ethical and better.... Capitalism.....
What about fusing Libertarianism (individuality) and Socialism (communality) to get Libertarian Socialism as the end result?

Libertarianism completely without Socialism will turn into a dog-eats-dog pepetual social war.

Socialism completely without Libertarianism will become an oppressive, censorious, punitve tyranny.

We have to find some way to combine them - humans are both the most individual and most communal beings. Denying one part of human nature to absolutise another is simply no way forward.
 
#54
Serious question, Gamey - Have you ever, you know, actually worked? Have you ever worked for a corporation? You seem to know so much about it, you must have, right (sarcasm)? How old are you? You speak the language of a 19 year old who's just been turned onto to Marxism by his/her wild haired college prof (or maybe you are that college prof).

Excuse making isn't healthy; nor is it moral in an interdependent society. No one is pulling the chair out from anyone; other than people pulling the chair out from under themselves. If you come into a job interview with me and your pants are sagging, you're bebopping around, can't speak English well; you're not getting a job; not even in the copy room. If you don't have the requisite education, you're not getting the job. If you can't demonstrate a history of responsibility; you're not getting the job. I don't care where your from or what color you are. Otherwise, if you're a minority and apply, I'm likely going to hire you because we have quotas that need to be filled. The minorities have privilege over Caucasians and Asians in both college admissions and hiring. Which, IMO, is immoral (I believe in the words of MLK - who was a great American).

The question people who don't get the job should ask is, "What was I doing wrong? What do I need to do better?". But alas, some people are just too quick to declare that the world is rigged against them and then conclude that it is just fine to give up and mooch off others. You're there to encourage that. You're hurting these people by helping them be losers who lack self-respect. That is, IMO, immoral. Where is the hope and dignity in that attitude?

So statistics are racist? You can't handle the truth so I'm a racist? Another display of immorality on your part. Make excuses and blame others instead of identifying and calling our real problems. That victimizes the innocent and makes undeveloped monsters out of the beneficiaries of your approach.
I get yr points and am enjoying the back and forth, but would ask that you stay topic with lots of facts/data and avoid personal questions/jabs. makes for a better read... and it better forum vibe.
 
#55
Yes, the problem with communism is that it seeks to force people to accept that things are worth what they really aren't. It's state controlled value setting.

I would say that Gamey is somewhat subtly threatening a kind of terrorism. Give us what we want and as much of it as we want, or we will cause you to spend even more because we re not going to play your game and we're here and you can't get rid of us. The Democrat party in the US is increasingly buying into this tactic via identity politics and Marxist rhetoric. I'm sure you know, as I do, where this leads - and it's not pretty. Les chiens vont manger bien.
 
#56
Exactly. I call this inspiring local business capital infusion, integral capital. It does not build Cronies - rather produces investment in hard working citizens who are rewarded for their 1. ability to solve a problem, 2. ability to inspire and 3. hard work. NO CRONIES....

I have started and built 8 companies now - and I ran them all this way. It was just a blast to work like that. I have several more businesses in the works but I cannot get capital for that sized business - because these businesses are reserved for the Crony Class only. They will not let a low life like me, develop these good ideas and threaten their wealth hold.

From my experience with the Crony Crowd, up close and personal... they get joy out of deception and taking advantage of people. $20 Billion is not enough for them... they want more, and they use their connections to get more. And yet, still get a giggle out of screwing an employee for $1,000 through a bit of 'ha! I outsmarted you!' sleight-of-hand.
yeah, but don't you think there's a "don't blame the player, blame the game" aspect to this. we've created a system that is winnable for lots of people, maybe not for everyone, but for more people than anyone in history. it would be nice if the system had a better interface with the spiritual path but from my experience it doesn't.
 
#57
That is a religious belief, not a fact. There is not a shred of evidence of such god. Your statement also denies the individuality and uniqueness of human beings.
Forgive me. Please replace the word "God" with "humanity" or "consciousness". It's all the same to me.

[I mean, I've personally never met the divine and I used to be a card carrying atheist, but "not a shred of evidence" is a bit strong considering the bhagavad gita talks about the fractal nature of god before we knew what a fractal was, the eastern religions and the ying yang symbol embody the divided whole, anyone who meditates long enough feels a deep connection to everything, people who do psychedelics also report the interconnectedness of everything, we hear the same messages in channeled materials and in alien abduction reports and from mediums and from near death experiences and remote viewing and people who experience out of body travel, but … sure, not a shred. Gotcha.]

Every person you meet is a fractal fragment of humanity. Every person you meet can teach you something about yourself. I would also wager that were I to take your "essence" (soul as some might say?) and place it into baggy pants man before he was born - and you were raised in the same genetic pool, in the same environment, in the same neighborhood - I would wager that you would BE baggy pants man. There's no doubt in my mind.
 
#59
The family is older than any economic model you can come up with. Do we stop taking care of granny when she's too old to work or does she still retain some value? Do we not pay for our children to get educated and feed them and teach them responsibility until they are old enough to do it on their own? You wouldn't run your family like a business and your real family is the whole of humanity.

That digging holes and throwing the dirt into other holes example is exactly what capitalism is, all of us undoing the work of each other. I'd say 90% of capitalism is bullshit jobs and completely useless. Think of all that free time we could have. We've got skyscrapers full of paper pushing and competition for no reason at all except to keep people busy and keep the money funnel pushing wealth up the chain. It's not a good system for the majority of people invested in it. We can do better.
 
#60
Forgive me. Please replace the word "God" with "humanity" or "consciousness". It's all the same to me.

[I mean, I've personally never met the divine and I used to be a card carrying atheist, but "not a shred of evidence" is a bit strong considering the bhagavad gita talks about the fractal nature of god before we knew what a fractal was, the eastern religions and the ying yang symbol embody the divided whole, anyone who meditates long enough feels a deep connection to everything, people who do psychedelics also report the interconnectedness of everything, we hear the same messages in channeled materials and in alien abduction reports and from mediums and from near death experiences and remote viewing and people who experience out of body travel, but … sure, not a shred. Gotcha.]

Every person you meet is a fractal fragment of humanity. Every person you meet can teach you something about yourself. I would also wager that were I to take your "essence" (soul as some might say?) and place it into baggy pants man before he was born - and you were raised in the same genetic pool, in the same environment, in the same neighborhood - I would wager that you would BE baggy pants man. There's no doubt in my mind.
Bhagavad Gita = religious text.

We are not a great melting pot, a collective. We are individuals, and always have been and always will be, for infinity.
William Bray NDE
 
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