Consciousness Is Not Mysterious - It’s just the brain describing itself—to itself.

S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#2
“It seems crazy to insist that the puppet’s consciousness is real. And yet, I argue that it is.
- Michael Graziano (2013), Consciousness and the Social Brain, p. 208
 
#4
After that qualitative fMRI study of his, in which he tries to emphasise that hard tasks show more activity than easy tasks. Whilst trying to explain away the equally significant observation that easy tasks show even less activity than baseline. I decided to take his research with a rather large pinch of salt.

https://thinkingdeeper.wordpress.com/2014/06/11/dr-michael-grazianos-puzzling-graphs/

I thought the activity drop below baseline for easy tasks was highly significant. If learning new stuff requires one to 'write' to the field, then accessing what one has already learned might require less 'writing' to the field, and be more about 'reading' from the field... which would require less energy useage. That's exactly what we saw in the preliminary results of his study.

This goes along with some of these fMRI drug studies suggesting heightened experiences were unexpectedly correlated with less activity, rather than more activity.

It goes along with a load of other things too, where less activity, results in more.
 
#10
Quoted from his article " The computer concludes that it has qualia because that serves as a useful, if simplified, self-model."

The computer ...concludes. What utter tosh Just my thoughts, please continue
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#12
I think Paul's point was that Graziano seems to be arguing for the two positions at the same time, rather than criticizing him for wavering between two positions?
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

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Member
#13
Quoted from his article " The computer concludes that it has qualia because that serves as a useful, if simplified, self-model."

The computer ...concludes. What utter tosh Just my thoughts, please continue
Computers conclude all the time.

3 a : to reach as a logically necessary end by reasoning : infer on the basis of evidence *concluded that her argument was sound* b : to make a decision about : DECIDE *concluded he would wait a little longer* c : to come to an agreement on : EFFECT *conclude a sale*

If you think not, then that says something interesting about your requirements for "concluding." Can you state what they are?

~~ Paul
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

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Member
#14
I think Paul's point was that Graziano seems to be arguing for the two positions at the same time, rather than criticizing him for wavering between two positions?
I think he has a consistent opinion. The trick is figuring out what people mean by consciousness. If they mean something tangible, a "thing," then he disagrees. If they mean some kind of process that produces a useful brain tool, then he agrees.

I think. His writing is a bit confusing.

~~ Paul
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#15
Computers conclude all the time.

3 a : to reach as a logically necessary end by reasoning : infer on the basis of evidence *concluded that her argument was sound* b : to make a decision about : DECIDE *concluded he would wait a little longer* c : to come to an agreement on : EFFECT *conclude a sale*

If you think not, then that says something interesting about your requirements for "concluding." Can you state what they are?

~~ Paul
I don't think a computer does any of those possible definitions of conclude?

Does a thermometer conclude a temperature? Does my car conclude it needs to stop when I press the brakes? Similarly, I'd agree with Tim and say the computer doesn't conclude anything?
 
#16
Computers conclude all the time.

3 a : to reach as a logically necessary end by reasoning : infer on the basis of evidence *concluded that her argument was sound* b : to make a decision about : DECIDE *concluded he would wait a little longer* c : to come to an agreement on : EFFECT *conclude a sale*

If you think not, then that says something interesting about your requirements for "concluding." Can you state what they are?

~~ Paul
Well doesn't the (mental) act of concluding require "reasoning," "retrospection," the possibility of changing one's mind based on new evidence. A computer surely can only use the information and the method of dealing with that information, that the person programmed it with.
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

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Member
#17
I don't think a computer does any of those possible definitions of conclude?

Does a thermometer conclude a temperature?
There is no computing at all, so probably not.

Does my car conclude it needs to stop when I press the brakes?
Yes, according to definition 3b and also probably 3a.

Again, I think you've loaded the term conclude with some unstated requirements.

~~ Paul
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#18
Well doesn't the (mental) act of concluding require "reasoning," "retrospection," the possibility of changing one's mind based on new evidence. A computer surely can only use the information and the method of dealing with that information, that the person programmed it with.
And what information can you use other than your memories and the current state of affairs?

~~ Paul
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#19
There is no computing at all, so probably not.


Yes, according to definition 3b and also probably 3a.

Again, I think you've loaded the term conclude with some unstated requirements.

~~ Paul
Can you elaborate how my car stopping when I hit the breaks meets either of those definitions?
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#20
Can you elaborate how my car stopping when I hit the breaks meets either of those definitions?
3 a : to reach as a logically necessary end by reasoning : infer on the basis of evidence *concluded that her argument was sound* b : to make a decision about : DECIDE *concluded he would wait a little longer*

The software concludes from various inputs, primarily the brake pedal, that the braking mechanism should be activated. It may also infer that automatic braking is required under certain circumstances, such as in my car when it detects an object in front that I'm about to hit. My cruise control system also makes decisions about using the brake.

Yet again, if you disagree with my statement, there must be something extra you are adding to the words conclude, infer, and decision.

~~ Paul
 
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