Coronavirus Pandemic

You aren't going to fool me, nor anyone else with this manipulative crap Malf. You are either trying to bait everyone into agreeing with you somehow, so that you can make this forum and all the members look like the idiots or crazy people that you believe us to be, or you are just playing stupid. Plus yet again, you've avoided answering my question to you.

Either way, I'm pretty fed up with how insincere you've been, and I'm sure others are too. There should be room for differing viewpoints and heated discussion. It's normal. But you are playing games with us all.
Sorry what question?
 
This?

Malf, what do you think of this? This is overkill, completely ridiculous, not to mention ineffective and inhumane.

I suspect you'll just sidestep my question with something else or directly avoid answering, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on this one.

So if masks work, why the shield?

I await the mental gymnastics required in order to answer ;;/?
No sidestepping or mental gymnastics from me. It clearly looks out of proportion and ridiculous. (I’m not going to “shake with disgust” because I’m not a child with resilience challenges.)

Having said that, I’m convinced there were well intentioned people on both sides... There may have even been some interesting learning opportunities for the students. Did they have to construct them themselves?
 
You aren't going to fool me, nor anyone else with this manipulative crap Malf. You are either trying to bait everyone into agreeing with you somehow, so that you can make this forum and all the members look like the idiots or crazy people that you believe us to be, or you are just playing stupid. Plus yet again, you've avoided answering my question to you.

Either way, I'm pretty fed up with how insincere you've been, and I'm sure others are too. There should be room for differing viewpoints and heated discussion. It's normal. But you are playing games with us all.
He's not fooling anyone Diver. I think the emotion may be getting the better of you.

Malf and I were on opposite sides of this thing back in March/April. He was all for the "do nothing" plan as he said. He's been far from dogmatic on this topic. Maybe step back and take a re-read of the first few pages of this thread.
 
He's not fooling anyone Diver. I think the emotion may be getting the better of you.

Malf and I were on opposite sides of this thing back in March/April. He was all for the "do nothing" plan as he said. He's been far from dogmatic on this topic. Maybe step back and take a re-read of the first few pages of this thread.
I’m also adult enough to realise that governments around the world had some hellishly tricky decisions to make. Any politician that was seen to be ‘doing nothing’ while people got very sick and bodies stacked up would not fare well in the court of public opinion. Just imagine if Trump had done even less? ;)

The prime minister here decided early that eliminating the disease was best for public health and the economy (and, no doubt, her popularity). She has probably been proved right. As far as I can tell she has been straight and honest with the public. She will almost certainly get re-elected in October.
 
The prime minister here decided early that eliminating the disease was best for public health and the economy (and, no doubt, her popularity). She has probably been proved right. As far as I can tell she has been straight and honest with the public. She will almost certainly get re-elected in October.
Bugger the virus, what is Ardern the Magnificent doing about your guys attempt to have us thrown out of the rugby? What, we win the World Cup and suddenly you don't want to play anymore?

 

"According to Paris police prefecture, violence was used against fans watching the game at the bar because they were not respecting social distance"

I don't know how I can make what is going on more clear to anyone.

I'm pissed off is because it is OBVIOUS that authorities and power hunger tyrants are having a field day with all of this. And there are people like yourself Malf, who to me, just seem to deny that this is happening. You don't acknowledge abuses of power, or even the idea. You've even admitted that these strong measures are necessary to handling this virus. Carting people off to quarantine 'facilities' against their will, is just what it takes to 'beat' the virus. You honestly think that our world is going to go back to normal? No government would give up the kind of power they have over the people that they do now. This worries me because if a whole big bunch of people on one side can see it, but the other can't; it's just a bloody mess.
 
Maybe Michael C's comment is representative of the majority; perhaps even a huge majority?

There were situations like this years ago when smoking laws were being enacted. And these laws were enacted because approximately 3,000 people per year were dying of cancer stemming from second hand smoke (in the U.S.).* I'm sure there were folks warning us all of government overreach and tyranny then too.

I obviously don't know one way or the other whether this is motivated by public health concerns (perhaps wisely or foolishly) or if there is a deeper cabal of power brokers focused on tyranny. I just don't see how anyone can conclude with certainty that it IS a conspiracy. But we've discussed this point before. ;)

* - The Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders (EPA, 1992)
 

"According to Paris police prefecture, violence was used against fans watching the game at the bar because they were not respecting social distance"

I don't know how I can make what is going on more clear to anyone.

I'm pissed off is because it is OBVIOUS that authorities and power hunger tyrants are having a field day with all of this. And there are people like yourself Malf, who to me, just seem to deny that this is happening. You don't acknowledge abuses of power, or even the idea. You've even admitted that these strong measures are necessary to handling this virus. Carting people off to quarantine 'facilities' against their will, is just what it takes to 'beat' the virus. You honestly think that our world is going to go back to normal? No government would give up the kind of power they have over the people that they do now. This worries me because if a whole big bunch of people on one side can see it, but the other can't; it's just a bloody mess.
I’ve seen footie fans treated worse outside of a pandemic.

Let’s put you in charge of your country in early March. What would you do?
 
I’ve seen footie fans treated worse outside of a pandemic.

Let’s put you in charge of your country in early March. What would you do?

Me too. But there was a reason that they got attacked. For not socially distancing.

But for someone like you, it's all justified, isn't it. You'll continue to use every single excuse you can think of to rationalise away the behaviour of the authorities as correct.


I'd open it all back up of course. But then you're just gonna call me an idiot and that is why I'm not in charge of the country and that I should have compassion for politicians. So, it's a stupid question to ask me.
 
Maybe Michael C's comment is representative of the majority; perhaps even a huge majority?

There were situations like this years ago when smoking laws were being enacted. And these laws were enacted because approximately 3,000 people per year were dying of cancer stemming from second hand smoke (in the U.S.).* I'm sure there were folks warning us all of government overreach and tyranny then too.

I obviously don't know one way or the other whether this is motivated by public health concerns (perhaps wisely or foolishly) or if there is a deeper cabal of power brokers focused on tyranny. I just don't see how anyone can conclude with certainty that it IS a conspiracy. But we've discussed this point before. ;)

* - The Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders (EPA, 1992)

You really are reaching if you think that is in any way equivalent to what is going on today.
 
Me too. But there was a reason that they got attacked. For not socially distancing.

But for someone like you, it's all justified, isn't it. You'll continue to use every single excuse you can think of to rationalise away the behaviour of the authorities as correct.
Nope. Not me


I'd open it all back up of course. But then you're just gonna call me an idiot and that is why I'm not in charge of the country and that I should have compassion for politicians. So, it's a stupid question to ask me.
No, I dont think youre an idiot, because I would have done the same. But the way the press and social media are, and after Italy, doing nothing and keeping everything open would not have been politically astute in a democratic system. Particularly in election year...
 
Maybe Michael C's comment is representative of the majority; perhaps even a huge majority?

There were situations like this years ago when smoking laws were being enacted. And these laws were enacted because approximately 3,000 people per year were dying of cancer stemming from second hand smoke (in the U.S.).* I'm sure there were folks warning us all of government overreach and tyranny then too.

I obviously don't know one way or the other whether this is motivated by public health concerns (perhaps wisely or foolishly) or if there is a deeper cabal of power brokers focused on tyranny. I just don't see how anyone can conclude with certainty that it IS a conspiracy. But we've discussed this point before. ;)

* - The Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking: Lung Cancer and Other Disorders (EPA, 1992)
I see current events as more a sign of the times than the execution of any specific plan or power-grab.

Basically, from my current gloomy perspective, a number of historical factors came together to produce the relatively free and prosperous lifestyles which many modern societies now enjoy. These historical factors are no longer in play. Thus, over time, we are seeing the collapse of said freedoms and lifestyles.

One example would be mass, relatively decent, education: A byproduct of empire building and industrialization, the need for a relatively skilled, capable of basic logic, workforce to man the factories and fire the canons. To an extent, these roles are now redundant - on a large scale, anyway - and are becoming increasingly more so.

Democratic values, public debate, national identities, class equality, et cetera, are similarly on their way out, having served their purpose.

They're going and they're going fast.

Add resource bottlenecks, localized environmental collapse, and an incredibly complex society and we have an absolute maelstrom of shits brewing.

Now, as this breakdown and lurch toward repression continues, the one stabilizing influence we have, the one anchor, is culture - both high and low.

Uh-oh.

The last few centuries, again tied to the empire building program and its subsequent breakdown, have had an absolutely eviscerating effect on culture. The first cultural bedrock to go was the local, idiosyncratic variety (after all, it wasn't just aborigines that had developed highly functional, place specific ways of living). These local adaptations fell first to the nationalist project and then were finished off by industrialization and mass broadcasting technology. Over the last century or so, the larger, wider cultural edifice has also been in decline and under attack - often going mad from within.

So, now we have a civilization whose overlords no longer have an incentive to keep the benefits of education and a humane society going. We have a decline in education going hand in hand with an incredibly complex civilization. We have a hollowed out culture whose values no longer exist or no longer have any utility. And we have a mass broadcast technology, perfect for propagandizing, at once isolating and homogenizing.

It's a strange and troubling milieu.

Now look at the present state of society: Critical capacities in decline, the easy curtailment of freedoms, the collapse of education, politicians increasingly either carnivalesque or cliched, a confusion of authenticity with a lack of self control, an inability to hear others views, extremity of emotion, the violence once reserved for the state filtering out into wider groupings, the capacity for unparalleled surveillance, a retreat into fantasy and infantilism, the acceptance of blatant untruths, the politicization of facts..... I could go on.

So yeah, I'm not optimistic and see current events and the reaction to them as par for the course. Things are sliding. You can't measure them anymore. The blizzard of the world has overturned the order of the soul. Brother, it's murder.

Just to reassure everyone, I AM NOT singling out any one particular point of view or politician or internet clique for criticism. They all, to me, show signs of the times. I am no exception.

Have a good day.
 
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Maybe Michael C's comment is representative of the majority; perhaps even a huge majority?
Silence, I like you, you strike me as a very reasonable chap, probably a decent one, too, but I would like to point out that you have just tried to justify, by appeal to majority opinion, riot cops getting stuck in to people for standing too close in a bar. This is what I'm talking about. We're all fucked.
 
Basically, from my current gloomy perspective, a number of historical factors came together to produce the relatively free and prosperous lifestyles which many modern societies now enjoy. These historical factors are no longer in play. Thus, over time, we are seeing the collapse of said freedoms and lifestyles.
In my experience, the single greatest contributory factor to having a gloomy perspective is - having a gloomy perspective.

I probably dwelt for years, intermittently, in a gloomy state. It took a while to notice how that state functioned and how to deal with it. It is self-supporting, a circularity. Break the loop and the brightness is there, it was there all the time, unnoticed.
 
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