CS Lewis, Science and Religion

#2
Can't say I agree with most of this.
There is nothing 'outside' nature any more than there is anything 'outside' science.
It is all nature and all science.
If it's 'outside' at all, it's outside our knowledge.

"There are no unnatural or supernatural phenomena, only very large gaps in our knowledge of what is natural. We should strive to fill those gaps of ignorance." Dr Edgar Mitchell astronaut
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#3
A fantastic video about the relationship of Science and Religion done by the channel CSLewisDoodle.

Good video. Lewis was always good at simple logic.

Can't say I agree with most of this.
There is nothing 'outside' nature any more than there is anything 'outside' science.
It is all nature and all science.
If it's 'outside' at all, it's outside our knowledge.

"There are no unnatural or supernatural phenomena, only very large gaps in our knowledge of what is natural. We should strive to fill those gaps of ignorance." Dr Edgar Mitchell astronaut
Pure speculation. There is no proof of this.
 
#4
Pure speculation. There is no proof of this.
I think you may have missed the point. I think what Psiclops was saying was that the words we use, such as 'supernatural' can be an obstacle, all it really means is something which is not fully understood. But the fact that it is not understood doesn't mean it is not natural. Generally the word 'natural' has positive connotations, such as when describing the food we eat, or the process by which it was made. We feel good about such things. Using another label, 'supernatural' can present a barrier, meaning we are fearful or reject and turn away from certain phenomena or certain ideas.
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#5
I think you may have missed the point. I think what Psiclops was saying was that the words we use, such as 'supernatural' can be an obstacle, all it really means is something which is not fully understood. But the fact that it is not understood doesn't mean it is not natural. Generally the word 'natural' has positive connotations, such as when describing the food we eat, or the process by which it was made. We feel good about such things. Using another label, 'supernatural' can present a barrier, meaning we are fearful or reject and turn away from certain phenomena or certain ideas.
Thanks Typoz. My apologies to Psiclops if that is the case but if there is a God he would have to, in some sense, be separate from nature so as not to be subject to natural laws. I see the point though. When I talk about strange experiences, I hate the word "supernatural" for precisely that reason. I used to prefer "paranormal" but that is now equated with supernatural as is "anomalous". I suppose it is inevitable really.
 
#6
Of course I shouldn't really try to speak on behalf of another forum member, it's possible that I misrepresented things.

but if there is a God he would have to, in some sense, be separate from nature so as not to be subject to natural laws
I understand this, though for me it's more of a logic-based argument, and how the result of the logic ends up will always depend upon what assumptions we start off with. Hence I find myself detached from this conclusion. I might make a different set of assumptions and argue to a different conclusion, but I've no wish to do so, though it is a great way to fill the pages of many books.
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#7
Of course I shouldn't really try to speak on behalf of another forum member, it's possible that I misrepresented things.


I understand this, though for me it's more of a logic-based argument, and how the result of the logic ends up will always depend upon what assumptions we start off with. Hence I find myself detached from this conclusion. I might make a different set of assumptions and argue to a different conclusion, but I've no wish to do so, though it is a great way to fill the pages of many books.
How about this for an assumption - nature is a part of God. Now we have no separation but God isn't subject to the laws. I know we can never be certain about this kind of thing but I am philosophical by nature so I can't help myself. :)
 
#8
How about this for an assumption - nature is a part of God. Now we have no separation but God isn't subject to the laws. I know we can never be certain about this kind of thing but I am philosophical by nature so I can't help myself. :)
No problem. I'm logical by nature - and spent many years working as a programmer, I can't help seeing things in terms of logic, as well as following the axiom, "garbage in, garbage out" (GIGO).
 
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