Daniel Pinchbeck, How Soon is Now, Heavy-Handed Climate Apocalypse Stuff |343|

#21
This conversation is particularly interesting to me because I feel I have both 'sides' - if they are in fact two different sides - in my head these days.

Eg, I believe in climate change. I believe it's a real thing that's happening, as part of a wider ecological mega-catastrophe that's been brewing since the 1950s. This is really, really, not a new phenomenon and not a new message. The WW2 and post-WW2 generation of environmentalists - Farley Mowat, Rachel Carson - were the first to call our attention to it. I think the narrow focus on just CO2 emissions is recently perhaps a little unfortunate, but we've known since the 1970s at the latest that Earth's biosphere is in deep, deep trouble because of human activity.

Deforestation, whaling, overfishing, ocean acidification, species extinction, icecap melting, the collapse of bees. All these are real and measurable phenomena. And they should be deeply concerning to anyone with a spiritual orientation! In Christianity, for instance (as I'm one myself), we're commanded to do good to others. The Jewish scriptures command us to look after the land, to rest it every seven years, to forgive debts, and to share our wealth with widows, orphans and refugees. Since WW2 (and even since the Industrial revolution) I think we've not been - in Jewish terms - giving the Earth its Sabbath. And I think that's starting to hurt us.

(In my experience, the Jewish religious commandment to 'love our neighbour as ourselves' and the Christian observation that the Early Church 'held all things in common' leads me politically and economically to forms of voluntary socialism, Social Democracy and to EF Schumacher's Green economics rather than laissez-faire market conservatism. Both Schumacher and the Distributivism of GK Chesterton resonate with me a lot more strongly than the current two mainstream political flavours on offer).

But I also believe (again coming from my spiritual leanings) that the physical world is NOT all there is. That when we pass from this Earth, we rise to a wider universe. That the universe IS in fact Liebniz' 'Best of all possible worlds', and things are not 'broken' so much as 'challenging our preconceived ideas'. which is deeply linked to the idea of God existing and being an active, governing force at every level of existence. And that our best human response to this is to relax, in a sense, to not try to force huge changes, to simply let what this Vast Active Living Intelligent System is doing, happen.

And I want to try to balance those two views: that the saints of all ages who have been the most inward and meditative/detached have also been deeply practical and generous people; that the entire planet feels at a deep place of crisis, requiring an active planetwide spiritual and practical response or it may very well suffer mass extinction; and yet also that 'everything is under control' - and not just 'control' but LOVE - at the higher levels of reality.

Wish I could say I've figured out that balance. But I think we need one eye on each side of the story.

I believe the Earth needs a miracle to survive. I also believe miracles are possible. I think the Earth and human civilisation will survive - but perhaps not without us changing our hearts. I think the great crisis facing Earth is fundamentally a crisis of a lack of love within us.

I believe we can and must change our minds to be more open to the vast spiritual universe around us, and our hearts to be more loving toward other beings (human and nonhuman) here on Earth. And if we change our hearts, then transformation and healing to our bodies, our lifestyles, our economies, our politics, and our biosphere will follow.

Regards, Nate
 
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#22
Like, here's my take on, to take one pop-culture myth, 'The Matrix'.

I believe we live in a kind of illusion much like The Matrix's VR. I think learning to 'escape the Matrix' can be healthy and productive.

However I don't believe we're enslaved in this illusion by evil outside forces (the Machines, a Demiurge) that we need to lead a violent revolution against. I think we've put ourselves inside this illusion, and to the extent there's a Machine running it, it's trying to do the best thing it knows for us.

Ie I'd write a Matrix sequel with the whole thing starting as a videogame that we gladly ran into, trying to escape from our outside problems. And we keep cycling around this world because we think shooting Agents and playing heroes gives us a buzz, so that's what the machines keep giving us.

But the illusion we've chosen isn't quite fitting us anymore. We need to rethink how we want to live. Do we want to be fearful and cruel towards others? Do we want to live under harsh tyrants who whip us to 'be more productive' even when what we produce is often pointless and is destroying living things? Is this really what we want? Or do we have the opportunity to be something kinder, more loving? If we made that kind of change, would that perhaps make us feel more happy?

If we really want to change, to be warmer and kinder to each other and the planet on a global scale, who knows what we might achieve? It doesn't have to be a harsh thing.
 
#24
What do you think we can do to increase the chances that intelligent people will be able to have real dialogues (about issues of concern to Skeptiko listeners?) and get past the polarising political situation we're currently in? Do you think that will happen, or do you think we are fundamentally stuck in a way that is not going to immediately fix itself?

You're never going to get anywhere with Pinchbeck, Alex, because he is so utterly convinced he's right. He's swallowed the whole climate change thing and is convinced anyone who disagrees is a "denier", and probably right wing to boot.

Despite that, if he should perchance be reading this, I'd ask him just to think: what if he's actually wrong about CAGW? What if he's bought the whole nine yards, hook line and sinker, but most of it is over-hyped bullshit? Some of the things he says are definitely bullshit, such as species extinctions: see here for a repudiation of that view from Der Spiegel. Also, major deforestation these days is being caused by clearing and cultivating biofuel plants in the name of virtuous CO2 saving, and windmills are causing great hardship for many people because they affect energy prices even though they're about as useful as chocolate teapots. I could go on and on, but it's all been said ad nauseam. He's completely blind to the harm that's being caused by fanatical environmentalists, and completely deaf to any counterarguments.

It's not that I'm against environmentalism, but it's lost its way and is neglecting things it should be doing because it's so obsessed with "climate change", which is blamed for just about every conceivable ill: see a long list here.

If he's in fact wrong about CAGW, then much of his premise for action is undermined. Moreover, he's not going to convince anyone by endlessly regurgitating CAGW propaganda as if it's gospel: if he wants proof of that, look at where climate change is on the political agenda of most ordinary people: at the bottom. I think he's trying to promote his agenda (which isn't totally without merit) by pushing the least concerning option on the menu.

His heart may be in the right place, but IMO you can't drive change through adopting scare tactics: people are much more concerned about other issues such as a good education, better healthcare, better job opportunities and more honest politicians. What he can't see is that globalisation isn't necessarily the answer, at least in the political sense. People want their national identities, and the globalisation, if anything, should be in the spiritual sense. Spirituality should be driving the politics, and not the other way around; but spirituality tends to evolve naturally: I don't think it can be forced by well-meaning people who slavishly accept this or that propaganda du jour.

Pinchbeck mentioned Buckminster Fuller. Well, Fuller opined that outcome values are often at "right angles" to stated goals (see here). We should be very careful what we wish for: be very careful that we don't imagine our proposed ways of solving all the world's ills aren't in fact counterproductive attempts to make the tail wag the dog.

If I'm scared by anything, it's the absolute conviction of people like Pinchbeck. History is littered with examples of people of conviction creating chaos and making everything FUBAR. Unfortunately, we can only seem to see this with the benefit of hindsight, after the damage has been done. IMO, unsubstantiated conviction is the source of many of the world's problems.
 
#25
Deforestation, whaling, overfishing, ocean acidification, species extinction, icecap melting, the collapse of bees. All these are real and measurable phenomena.
I'd agree with some of those - though I would put nuclear weapons ahead of all of them.

Deforestation, whaling, overfishing - definitely.

Ocean acidification - I am dubious - there is a place (in Hawaii, I think) where CO2 bubbles up through a coral reef, and doesn't seem to harm it at all. The sea pH is pretty well buffered from what I have read.

The problems with the bees may also have been exaggerated from what I have read - i.e. there are periodic collapses in bee population - because of some fungal infection.

The ice caps are a totally different matter. For a long time the Arctic ice shrank, while Antarctic ice increased (without much mention)! The Artctic ice reached a low point in 2007, and has, I think increased somewhat since then.

I'll let others add some links on this.

The frustrating thing (to me) is that there are huge issues to be addressed - nuclear weapons, and loss of forests in particular, and these are almost ignored. That tells me that the people pushing 'Climate Change' do not have the interests of the earth at heart. Doctors treating someone in emergency don't ignore the heart attack to focus on an ingrowing toenail!

@Michael

I just thought I'd paste in your list of things blamed on global warming - just for added effect:

A (Not Quite) Complete List Of Things Supposedly
Caused By Global Warming


Acne , Longer plane flights , agricultural land increase , Afghan poppies destroyed , Africa devastated , Africa in conflict , African aid threatened , African summer frost , aggressive weeds , More Toxic Poison Ivy , air pressure changes , airport malaria , Agulhas current , Alaska reshaped , moves , allergy season longer , alligators in the Thames , Alps melting , Amazon a desert , American dream end , amphibians breeding earlier (or not) , anaphylactic reactions to bee stings , ancient forests dramatically changed , animals head for the hills , animals shrink , Antarctic grass flourishes , Antarctic ice grows , Antarctic ice shrinks , Antarctic sea life at risk , anxiety treatment , algal blooms , archaeological sites threatened , Arab Spring , Arctic bogs melt , Arctic in bloom , Arctic ice free , Arctic ice melt faster , Arctic lakes disappear , Arctic tundra to burn , Arctic warming (not) , Atlantic less salty , Atlantic more salty , atmospheric circulation modified , attack of the killer jellyfish , avalanches reduced , avalanches increased , Baghdad snow , Bahrain under water , bananas grow , barbarisation , beer shortage , beetle infestation , bet for $10,000 , better beer , big melt faster , billion dollar research projects , billion homeless , billions face risk , billions of deaths , bird distributions change , bird loss accelerating , birds shrinking , bird strikes , bird visitors drop , birds confused , birds decline (Wales) , birds driven north , birds return early , bittern boom ends , blackbirds stop singing , blackbirds threatened , Black Hawk down , blood contaminated , blue mussels return , bluetongue , brain eating amoebae , brains shrink , bridge collapse (Minneapolis) , Britain one big city , Smaller loaves of Bread , Britain Siberian , brothels struggle , brown Ireland , bubonic plague , budget increases , Buddhist temple threatened , building collapse , building season extension , bushfires , business risks , butterflies move north , camel deaths , cancer deaths in England , cannibalism , cannibalism again , caterpillar biomass shift , cave paintings threatened , childhood insomnia , Cholera , circumcision in decline , cirrus disappearance , civil unrest , cloud increase , coast beauty spots lost , cockroach migration , coffee threatened , cold climate creatures survive , cold spells (Australia) , cold wave (India) , computer models , conferences , conflict , conflict with Russia , consumers foot the bill , coral bleaching , coral fish suffer , coral reefs dying , coral reefs grow , coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight , Cabbage Shortage , cost of trillions , cougar attacks , crabgrass menace , cradle of civilisation threatened , creatures move uphill , crime increase , crocodile sex , crops devastated , crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems , curriculum change , cyclones (Australia) , danger to kid's health , Darfur , Dartford Warbler plague , death rate increase (US) , deaths to reach 6 million , Dengue hemorrhagic fever , depression , depressed PETS! , desert advance , desert retreat , destruction of the environment , disappearance of coastal cities , disasters , diseases move from animals to humans , diseases move north , dog disease , Dolomites collapse , dozen deadly diseases , Drop in birth rates , drought , ducks and geese decline , dust bowl in the corn belt , early marriages , early spring , earlier pollen season , Earth biodiversity crisis , Earth dying , Earth even hotter , Earth light dimming , Earth lopsided , Earth melting , Earth morbid fever , Earth on fast track , Earth past point of no return , Earth slowing down , Earth slowing down 2 , Earth spins faster , Earth spins faster 2 , Earth to explode , Earth's poles shift , earth upside down , earthquakes , Specifically the 2015 Nepal earthquake , earthquakes redux , earthquakes redux 2 , Egypt revolt , El Niño intensification , end of the world as we know it , erosion , emerging infections , encephalitis , English villages lost , equality threatened , Europe simultaneously baking and freezing , eutrophication , evolution accelerating , expansion of university climate groups ,

extinctions

human , civilisation , logic , Colony Collapse Disorder (Bees dying) , Inuit , smallest butterfly , cod , ladybirds , pikas , polar bears , make polar bears eat their cubs , possums , walrus , toads , plants , salmon , trout , wild flowers , woodlice , a million species , half of all animal and plant species , mountain species , not polar bears , barrier reef , leaches , salamanders , tropical insects)

experts muzzled , extreme changes to California , fading fall foliage , fainting , famine , farmers benefit , farmers go under , farm output boost , fashion disaster , fever , figurehead sacked , fir cone bonanza , fish bigger , fish catches drop , fish downsize , fish catches rise , fish deaf , fish get lost , fish head north , fish stocks at risk , fish stocks decline , five million illnesses , flames stoked , flesh eating disease , flood patterns change , floods , floods of beaches and cities , flood of migrants , flood preparation for crisis , Florida economic decline , flowers in peril , fog (more) in San Francisco , fog (less) in San Francisco , food poisoning , food prices rise , food prices soar , food security threat (SA) , football team migration , footpath erosion , forest decline , forest expansion , frog with extra heads , frostbite , frost damage increased , frosts , fungi fruitful , fungi invasion , games change , Garden of Eden wilts , geese decline in Hampshire , genetic diversity decline , gene pools slashed , giant oysters invade , giant pythons invade , giant squid migrate , gingerbread houses collapse , glacial earthquakes , glacial retreat , glacial growth , glacier grows (California) , glacier wrapped , global cooling , global dimming , glowing clouds , golf course to drown , golf Masters wrecked , grandstanding , grasslands wetter , Great Barrier Reef 95% dead , Great Lakes drop , great tits cope , greening of the North , Grey whales lose weight , Gulf Stream failure , habitat loss , haggis threatened , Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome , harmful algae , harvest increase , harvest shrinkage , hay fever epidemic , health affected , health of children harmed , health risks , heart disease , heart attacks and strokes (Australia) , heat waves , hibernation affected , hibernation ends too soon , hibernation ends too late , high court debates , Hitler , HIV epidemic , homeless 50 million , hornets , horses shrink , human development faces unprecedented reversal , human fertility reduced , human health risk , human race oblivion , hurricanes , hurricane reduction , hurricanes fewer , hurricanes not , hydropower problems , hyperthermia deaths , ice age , ice sheet growth , ice sheet shrinkage , icebergs , illegal immigration , illness and death , inclement weather , India drowning , infrastructure failure (Canada) , industry threatened , infectious diseases , nflation in China , insect explosion , insurance premium rises , Inuit displacement , Inuit poisoned , Inuit suing , invasion of cats , invasion of crabgrass , invasion of herons , invasion of jellyfish , invasion of king crabs , invasion of midges , island disappears , islands sinking , Creation of ISIS , itchier poison ivy , jellyfish explosion , jets fall from sky , jet stream drifts north , Kew Gardens taxed , kidney stones , kidney stones again , killer cornflakes , killing us , kitten boom , koalas under threat , krill decline , lake and stream productivity decline , lake empties , lake shrinking and growing , landslides , landslides of ice at 140 mph , lawsuits increase , lawsuit successful , lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!) , lawyers want more , legionnaires' surge , lives saved , lizards change sex , Loch Ness monster dead , Locust plagues suppressed , Longer wprk breaks , Lopsided Earth , lush growth in rain forests , Malaria , mammoth dung melt , mango harvest fails , Maple production advanced , Maple syrup shortage , marine diseases , marine food chain decimated , Meaching (end of the world) , Mediterranean rises , megacryometeors , Melanoma , Melanoma decline , Mental health of farmers , meteors from space , methane emissions from plants , methane burps , methane runaway , melting permafrost , Middle Kingdom convulses , migration , migration difficult (birds) , migratory birds huge losses , microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly , minorities hit , monkeys on the move , Mont Blanc grows , monuments imperiled , moose dying , more bad air days , more research needed , mortality increased , mountain (Everest) shrinking , mountaineers fears , mountains break up , mountains green and flowering , mountains taller , mortality lower , murder higher , Mutate humans , Myanmar cyclone , narwhals at risk , National security implications , native wildlife overwhelmed , natural disasters quadruple , new islands , next ice age , NFL threatened , Nile delta damaged , noctilucent clouds , no effect in India , Northwest Passage opened , nuclear plants bloom , oaks dying , oaks move north , ocean acidification , ocean acidification faster , ocean dead zones unleashed , ocean deserts expand , ocean waves speed up , oceans noisier , opera house to be destroyed , outdoor hockey threatened , ozone repair slowed , ozone rise , Pacific dead zone , penguin chicks frozen , personal carbon rationing , pest outbreaks , pests increase , phenology shifts , plankton blooms , plankton destabilised , plants lose protein , plants march north , plants move uphill , polar bears aggressive , polar bears cannibalistic , polar bears deaf , polar bears drowning , polar bears eating themselves, , polar tours scrapped , popcorn rise , porpoise astray , profits collapse , prostitution , prostitution (again) , psychiatric illness , puffin decline , radars taken out , railroad tracks deformed , rainfall increase , rape wave , refugees , refugees again , reindeer endangered , release of ancient frozen viruses , resorts disappear , rice threatened , rice yields crash , rift on Capitol Hill , rioting and nuclear war , Rise and Fall of Rome , river flow impacted , rivers raised , roads wear out , robins rampant , rocky peaks crack apart , roof of the world a desert ,rooftop bars , Ross river disease , ruins ruined , Russia under pressure , salinity reduction , salinity increase , Salmonella , Salmon Decline , satellites accelerate , school closures , sea level rise , sea level rise faster , seals mating more , sewer bills rise , severe thunderstorms , sex change , sexual promiscuity , shark attacks , sharks booming , sharks moving north , sheep shrink , shop closures , short-nosed dogs endangered , shrinking ponds , shrinking shrine , ski resorts threatened , skin cancer , slow death , smaller brains , smog , snowfall increase , snowfall heavy , soaring food prices , societal collapse , soil change , songbirds change eating habits , sour grapes , space problem , spectacular orchids , spiders invade Scotland , squid aggressive giants , squid population explosion , squid tamed , squirrels reproduce earlier , stingray invasion , storms wetter , stormwater drains stressed , street crime to increase , subsidence , suicide , swordfish in the Baltic , Tabasco tragedy , taxes , tectonic plate movement , teenage drinking , terrorism , terrorism again , threat to peace , ticks move northward (Sweden) , tides rise , tigers eat people , tomatoes rot , tornado outbreak , tourism increase , trade barriers , trade winds weakened , traffic jams , transportation threatened , tree foliage increase (UK) , tree growth slowed , trees in trouble , trees less colourful , trees more colourful , trees lush , tropics expansion , tropopause raised , truffle shortage , truffles down , turtles crash , Turbulence in air travel , turtle feminised , turtles lay earlier , UFO sightings , UK coastal impact , UK Katrina , uprooted - 6 million , Vampire bats , Vampire moths , Venice flooded , violin decline , volcanic eruptions , volcanic eruptions redux , Iceland volcano eruption , walrus pups orphaned , walrus stampede , war , war between US and Canada , wars over water , wars sparked , wars threaten billions , wasps , water bills double , water scarcity (20% of increase) , water stress , weather out of its mind , weather patterns awry , Western aid cancelled out , West Nile fever , whales lose weight , whales move north , whales wiped out , wheat yields crushed in Australia , wildfires , wind shift , wind reduced , wine - harm to Australian industry , wine industry damage (California) , wine industry disaster (France) , wine - more English , wine industry disaster (US) , wine - more English , wine - England too hot , wine -German boon , wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa) , wine stronger , winters in Britain colder , winter in Britain dead , witchcraft executions , wolves eat more moose , wolves eat less , workers laid off , World at war , World War 4 , World bankruptcy , World in crisis , World in flames , Yellow fever

Isn't it amazing that all this happens because of a 0.8 C rise in global temperature (their figures), who would believe it!

To be fair, I notice that a fair few of those links are now dead. Possibly the 'science' responsible was retracted, but once claims have been made few keep track to find out if they were subsequently retracted (I am sure Daniel Pinchbeck doesn't).

David
 
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#29
because he is so utterly convinced he's right.
Here's the thing as I see it.... so do you. (as in collective 'you') :)

If the consensus is as split as 'deniers' say it is then basically it becomes a 'he said, she said'.
However, to overcome that bit of sticky wicket, 'deniers' (for want of a better word) have to claim that all GW proponents (man made or otherwise) are all part of some vast globalist agenda conspiracy
 
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#30
"We have to create a harmonic system," he shouted.

I'm with him on the notion that a pathological system has taken over and that we need to think outside the box for new ways of approaching our problems - especially monetary. I'm with him on rediscovering things of value from our tribal shamanic past.

I think there's some good ideas bouncing around in his bubble chamber... but the idea that CO2 is a pollutant is not one of'em.
 
#31
Here's the thing as I see it.... so do you. (as in collective 'you') :)

If the consensus is as split as 'deniers' say it is then basically it becomes a 'he said, she said'.
However, to overcome that bit of sticky wicket, 'deniers' (for want of a better word) have to claim that all GW proponents (man made or otherwise) are all part of some vast globalist agenda conspiracy
Not at all. Most of them are probably parrots who simply regurgitate all the guff they're fed. Maybe you're one of them, I really couldn't say...
 
#33
Alex,

I was sorry that the podcast never got on to Daniel's earlier interests, but I guess he has become obsessed with his new concerns......

I'd like to answer your question in an optimistic way. I think what everyone tends to forget, is that politicians and many media people are a hard-nosed crowd that do things almost exclusively to benefit their careers. Maybe readers should say that 10 times over to themselves before reading further because it explains everything - let's call that proposition P for a shorthand.

Because of P, we should assume that there are virtually no politicians or media people who are genuinely interested in LBGT, climate change, the rights of immigrants, the rights of religious minorities, etc.

These people fake an interest in these issues because they think it gets them re-elected, or because it furthers their media career. They also think that these issues make ordinary people feel guilty, and so more easily manipulated.


Now for the first time, they are beginning to realise that a lot of people in the US and the UK have rumbled their nonsense. In Britain, Mrs. May's government is riding high because she is taking a firm stance on Brexit. Most of us in UKIP thought the government would renege on the referendum, but it seems like they have finally realised that the way to be popular, is to do what the people want. I hope something similar will happen in the US - they are about 6 months behind us on this.

I am optimistic that this is an idea that will spread - self-centred politicians aren't so bad when they see it is in their personal interests to be doing what people actually want done.

(Sorry about using so much boldface in the above!)

I have puzzled and puzzled about what was the real reason for the climate scam. I think the clue may lie in the fact that India and China and other Third World are permitted to open new coal-fired power stations almost without limit. These same countries are clamouring for vast 'climate reparations'. There are all sorts of kick-backs and cream-offs in all that for UN officials. This idiotic issue was never about anything but making money, and transferring wealth from Western countries to the Third World - but not to the people, but to the local corrupt officials.

What I do find disturbing, is that people like Daniel, who seem to be able to see through the veil regarding reality, can still get snared on this phoney issue. I mean Daniel mentioned in passing all the thousands of nuclear weapons primed to launch at short notice - doesn't he think that is an infinitely more important issue than minuscule changes in temperature?

Alex, I was sorry you voted for Hillary - even if you repented later - was Pizzagate the most important issue for you? For me, the number one issue was that Hillary wanted to confront the Russians in Syria - possibly starting a nuclear war, and she knew that most of the opposition to Assad was from terrorists armed by the US!

David
I felt the same way when Alex said he voted fo Hillary. To me, when one examines her positions and past actions, she is obvious a neo-con/war monger in the same vein as Bush and Obama. Funny; I too voted for Obama in '08 but soon realized he offered no real change. Trump is bombastic, arrogant and annoying as hell but he is doing what he promised to a certain extent and that is refreshing as hell. He's also challenging the MSM that most of us quit taking seriously years ago. Having said that, if Alex's wife was a huge Hillbot, I get wanting to keep the peace.
 

Alex

Administrator
#35
Eg, I believe in climate change. I believe it's a real thing that's happening, as part of a wider ecological mega-catastrophe that's been brewing since the 1950s.
I'm with you re the "ecological mega-catastrophe," but the CO2 global warming meme is terrible science. and I suspect it's driven by a trillion dollar carbon credit scam. there is no indication that the folks driving this agenda have any real concern about dealing with the deep ecological issues we're facing.
 
#36
Pinchbeck’s job is to sell Global Marxism to the “Consciousness” crowd. He really sucks at it, I think because he is lazy. He doesn’t even realize the very political technology he thinks so revolutionary, the Internet, is exactly what is subverting the advance of his One-world Government Global Marxism.
Oh dear. Not only do I think Pinchbeck is a raving loon with nothing to really say of use (my opinion ymmv) but you seem to be far more out of step than he is. If he's a Marxist I'm a Swiss Gnome. Take if from me - I have a hell of a lot of time for Marx and I know what it is, what it gets right (a hell of a lot) and what it gets wrong and why. He ain't no Marxist and I don't think you know what Marxism actually is.
 
#37
I'm with you re the "ecological mega-catastrophe,"
It is already too late to avoid mass starvation
Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support…the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution
Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct
The above predictions are from 1970. https://www.aei.org/publication/18-...st-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year-2/

“Crisisization” of everything possible. Most speculation is not compelling because most events are not compelling—Gosh, I wonder what will happen to the German Mark? Are they going to get their labor problems under control? This promotes the well-known media need for a crisis. Crisis in the German mark! Uh-oh! Look out! Crises unite the country, draw viewers in large numbers, and give something to speculate about.
http://larvatus.com/michael-crichton-why-speculate/

Crisis mode is exciting. But after 20 or 30 years exposure to the MSM, there is always some new crisis.

Unless one undergoes training on observing and modulating one's emotions and on considering and arguing from multiple sides on a topic, I doubt we can have effective conversations. With the internet there is an accelerated cycle of grabbing dubious info to prop up one's belief systems. The quotes above may in fact be evidence that I am doing this.
 
#39
Daniel Pinchbeck, How Soon is Now, Heavy-Handed Climate Apocalypse Stuff |343|
by Alex Tsakiris | Mar 21 | Consciousness Science, Skepticism

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Daniel Pinchbeck, was a pioneer in exploring consciousness, but now he’s sure the world will end if we don’t trade carbon credits.




I'm more with Daniel on this one.... Fact check climate gate... "Climate skeptics are claiming that they show scientific misconduct that amounts to the complete fabrication of man-made global warming. We find that to be unfounded:" Climate gate is a red herring....
 
#40
I didn't get much from the interview...as most of it seemed like defensive arguing over assumed points of view. I personally believe that climate change is real....there is too much evidence to support it. Is it caused by rising CO2 rates....could be a correlation. The real correlation is of course human overpopulation (hockey stick graph ... any animal population that shows this rate of growth eventually plummets). I don't believe the carbon credit thing is any kind of "solution" to the problem. In fact, I don't think there is any man-made solution to the problem.

One of the predicted effects of climate change is that we should begin to see more climatic extremes. And that is happening....look to the recent floods in Peru. During the first part of January, there was a developed El Nina off the coast. In a little over two months, the Nina disappeared, and an El Nino formed....very warm water. My friend (who is an earth scientist) says he has never observed this before. So we are seeing more extreme oscillations between high and low air temperatures (today it is 85 .... way too warm for early spring in SW New Mexico) and tomorrow it will be 50 with rain. This is happening all across the globe. Here is another example. During the years of the California drought, there was a large body of warm water off the coast of the northwest US. It disappeared last year...and now we have floods in CA and the northwest. Are the two related? Certainly ocean circulation is a big driver of weather. Who knows. Just some observations.
 
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