David Fitzgerald Spots Christian Myths, Misses Atheist Myths |356|

#61
I got Fitzgerald's book on Kindle after listening to this podcast (thankfully it was on kindle unlimited!) and I couldn't get past the first couple of chapters it was so bad. He comes across as very polite but then drops a "polite bomb" which is so appallingly erroneous and without the flimseist evidence against the Bible and Jesus that I just couldn't continue to read it. On and on error after error, and all with a polite smile on his face. No thanks.

Atheism is ridiculous in my opinion. You should have moved on from giving them airtime by now Alex.
 
#62
Hmm, can you unpack that a bit?

I consider myself a Christian, and 'politically convenient' is about the LAST way I'd personally think to describe Jesus Christ.

His teachings, as I understand them, do not map cleanly onto any current large political or religious grouping; neither liberal nor conservative, neither anarchist nor imperialist, neither materialist nor idealist; opposed to almost all structures of power, requiring radical forgiveness and self-discipline from his followers; a pacifist, a healer, possessing no personal property; advocating a form of voluntary communism and international globalism but opposed to violent uprising.

Even in a world where multiple major religions have been established in his name, just trying to understand what his teachings actually WERE is difficult, as they seem to constantly be obscured by organisational infighting and the quest for power.

It is certainly politically convenient, currently, in the American South to CLAIM to be 'an Evangelical Christian' of a very narrow definition - yet Catholics, Quakers, anyone sympathetic to immigrants, and other people who attempt to ACTUALLY live out Jesus' teachings tend to be attacked.

The missionary and writer Hannah Hurnard is a case in point. She was in Palestine at the time of the formation of Israel, for which she has become sort of a minor saint among Evangelicals for a couple of books she wrote in the early 1950s - yet her many other writings have also been placed on a kind of 'index of forbidden books' by exactly the same Evangelical publishing houses - because she came to reject the concept of eternal Hell, claiming the voice of Jesus himself told her this was a wrong interpretation.This was seen as a bridge too far.

Then there's 'A Course in Miracles', which I've read and which I feel is quite likely to be an actual communication from Jesus (it focuses a lot on 'forgiveness', which to me is near the core of his teaching in the Gospels). But many Evangelicals believe that this book is quite literally 'demonic'. I mean, this isn't surprising given that Jesus himself was executed by the leaders of his own religion for being 'demon-possessed', but ... ... .. it's kinda funny, isn't it? A little too close to history repeating beat for beat.

And how many other times has this cycle repeated, over the last two thousand years? There's a reason why multiple lay and monastic orders spun out of the Church, from the Benedictines on. There seems to have to be a constant process of struggle and renewal as every century or so a new generation has to rediscover the actual heart of the teachings and try to re-embody them. And often even those 'renewal' movements (like Protestantism) are really only reactions to political circumstances (eg, the decline of Rome and the rise of nationalism and capitalism). I suspect something similar happens in all other philosophies and systems too. (Take Einstein, for instance; a secular saint, yet the bulk of his work in his own lifetime was considered out-of-date and not taken seriously). The spirit and soul of a belief is always deeply buried under temporary organisational forces, and harder to get to without serious inner work.

To me it seems that anyone trying to follow the ACTUAL teachings of Jesus will generally get at best a mixed reception in the worlds of religion and politics - even/especially among large organisations calling themselves 'Christian'.


Regards, Nate
consider: http://postflaviana.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Atwill-Russell-03-03-2017.mp3
as will a lot of Joe's stuff it tends to go a little over-the-top, but the data hard to sidestep

or for a slightly (only a tiny bit) version of the same, consider:
https://www.eldontaylor.com/blog/2015/10/21/spirituality-as-a-tool-for-mind-control/

as with 354 you have to get over the outrage over ACIM to get to the real question... WFT is the CIA doing messing with this stuff!
 
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#63
I'm not suggesting Atwill is wrong when I say the following but don't you think that as with the mythicist views it could just boil down to "coincidences" between the life of Jesus and these other things? It seems like a stretch but don't forget that as the Bible Code book showed, in a small portion of text you can find patterns that link up through word association etc. to find meanings.

In connection with that I want to point out what is also a strange thing. A lot of skeptics are like a lot of New Agers in that they both want to co-opt Jesus Christ. Don't you find it strange that almost all channeled literature is all about peace and love but they almost always bring up Jesus and have something strange to say about him?

About ACIM, again it could just be coincidence but ACIM is a channelled book too! It completely goes against the historical and traditional Christian story.

Just saying.
 
#64
Don't you find it strange that almost all channeled literature is all about peace and love but they almost always bring up Jesus and have something strange to say about him?
I've always thought this extremely bizarre. Especially because I personally wasn't convinced that Jesus existed. Here I would be going along believing the experiential accounts of the UFO bits, but then I'd kind of I'd recoil when the Jesus stuff comes up, which it did often. I'd read these UFO encounters and the beings would show people holograms of historical Jesus. I can't remember if they were showing it as something that was faked or a reality. I think they showed the 'spear in the side' moment. Something I've always thought about UFO-beings is that they may not understand lying/dishonesty. If you travel through time and probabilities and you're concerned with behavioral changes then the ends may justify the means to the point where you don't even consider the means. They just do what they need to to produce the ends, that may include appearing to you as a dead relative, one of your religious heroes, or whatever.

Here's The Law of One about Jesus: http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q=jesus

Here's SETH about Jesus: http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/jesus/seth.htm
http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/jesus/seth.htm
"The EVENTS as they are recorded, however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a psychic, but not a physical event. Ideas of almost unimaginable magnitude were played out."

Dolores Cannon hypnotized patients and drew out the entire book Jesus and the Essenes which I found fascinating, seemingly historically accurate, and incredibly believable. But the more Cannon you read the more you start to wonder what's going on. For instance, she hypnotizes people and draws out these amazing stories that sci-fi writers would be envious of (The Convoluted Universe Books I-IV), but it isn't just like replaying a historical record -- let's say you got a package and delivered it to someone and never looked inside. She will say to you, "let's go back to that moment, now open the package and see what's inside" and they do. Is she changing the past through hypnosis? Is everything just information and Dolores just needs to request the information and the brain fills in the details with a believable continuation of story? Is every possibility happening everywhere (see Rick and Morty) and these are all recordings of alternate versions? When she talked to Nostradamus through a hypnotized patient she said, "are you the ghost of nostradamus?" and he said, "no, i'm alive in my time just as you're alive in yours. i'm hypnotizing my adept in order to be able to speak with you." *shrug*


 
#65
I've always thought this extremely bizarre. Especially because I personally wasn't convinced that Jesus existed. Here I would be going along believing the experiential accounts of the UFO bits, but then I'd kind of I'd recoil when the Jesus stuff comes up, which it did often. I'd read these UFO encounters and the beings would show people holograms of historical Jesus. I can't remember if they were showing it as something that was faked or a reality. I think they showed the 'spear in the side' moment. Something I've always thought about UFO-beings is that they may not understand lying/dishonesty. If you travel through time and probabilities and you're concerned with behavioral changes then the ends may justify the means to the point where you don't even consider the means. They just do what they need to to produce the ends, that may include appearing to you as a dead relative, one of your religious heroes, or whatever.

Here's The Law of One about Jesus: http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q=jesus

Here's SETH about Jesus: http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/jesus/seth.htm
"The EVENTS as they are recorded, however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a psychic, but not a physical event. Ideas of almost unimaginable magnitude were played out."

Dolores Cannon hypnotized patients and drew out the entire book Jesus and the Essenes which I found fascinating, seemingly historically accurate, and incredibly believable. But the more Cannon you read the more you start to wonder what's going on. For instance, she hypnotizes people and draws out these amazing stories that sci-fi writers would be envious of (The Convoluted Universe Books I-IV), but it isn't just like replaying a historical record -- let's say you got a package and delivered it to someone and never looked inside. She will say to you, "let's go back to that moment, now open the package and see what's inside" and they do. Is she changing the past through hypnosis? Is everything just information and Dolores just needs to request the information and the brain fills in the details with a believable continuation of story? Is every possibility happening everywhere (see Rick and Morty) and these are all recordings of alternate versions? When she talked to Nostradamus through a hypnotized patient she said, "are you the ghost of nostradamus?" and he said, "no, i'm alive in my time just as you're alive in yours. i'm hypnotizing my adept in order to be able to speak with you." *shrug*


I think I didn't understand any of this.
 
#67
consider: http://postflaviana.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Atwill-Russell-03-03-2017.mp3
as will a lot of Joe's stuff it tends to go a little over-the-top, but the data hard to sidestep

or for a slightly (only a tiny bit) version of the same, consider:
https://www.eldontaylor.com/blog/2015/10/21/spirituality-as-a-tool-for-mind-control/

as with 354 you have to get over the outrage over ACIM to get to the real question... WFT is the CIA doing messing with this stuff!
Alex, you have posted a quotation from Nate. I didn't see Nate's post in the earlier thread. But I will say this. Parapsychologists, some anthropologists, psychologists, sociologists, some scientists, New Agers and consciousness researchers absolutely hate Jesus Christ.
 
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