Debate on British morning TV between Psychic and Magician
- Thread starter Roberta
- Start date
I think that the medium lady just kind of 'gave up' towards the end, humouring them as she felt, correctly, that she was on a hiding to nothing.
THAT SAID, I'm personally not convinced that mediumship provides very good evidence of the afterlife. I have started a thread here before describing my own experiences with a medium, he said that he was unable to give me a reading, he didn't want to accept any money for it or anything. He is a well known medium and I have no doubt that he is genuine.
IF I had personally had a reading like the one you've posted elsewhere in a thread, I think it would be quite convincing of something. The stuff Alex has found out with Julie Beischel's mediums is quite convincing, but I wasn't there.
People like the guy in the video are totally convinced that there's nothing but fraud involved, and make quite a good case for cold reading as we saw in the video. Darren Brown is certainly good at what he does - whatever that is! People like the guy in the video are so convinced that they wouldn't be tempted by anything that swayed their worldview I don't think.
THAT SAID, I'm personally not convinced that mediumship provides very good evidence of the afterlife. I have started a thread here before describing my own experiences with a medium, he said that he was unable to give me a reading, he didn't want to accept any money for it or anything. He is a well known medium and I have no doubt that he is genuine.
IF I had personally had a reading like the one you've posted elsewhere in a thread, I think it would be quite convincing of something. The stuff Alex has found out with Julie Beischel's mediums is quite convincing, but I wasn't there.
People like the guy in the video are totally convinced that there's nothing but fraud involved, and make quite a good case for cold reading as we saw in the video. Darren Brown is certainly good at what he does - whatever that is! People like the guy in the video are so convinced that they wouldn't be tempted by anything that swayed their worldview I don't think.
Yeah she did. It would be good if they had use someone, or if she had knowledge of Julie's work, or the 2011 Kelly study, or the psychography studies where they scanned the mediums brains, or the work with Leonara Piper, Eileen Garrett (The R101 case), Gladys Osborne etc.
I got particularly annoyed when he brought up the JREF challenge, when people do that I find it very disingenuous - one study is proof of nothing and I wouldn't do it if I had any abilities.
I thought his cold reading was poor, it didn't apply to me at all haha. I would need very specific stuff from a medium to be convinced though. I wouldn't let one bad reading put you off - would one good reading convince you?
Derren Brown is great at entertainment, but he and his team controls everything that's going on. Why don't they agree to do testing with Julie or something like that? Infact I think that might have happened before and the mentalist did very badly.
Cheers!
I got particularly annoyed when he brought up the JREF challenge, when people do that I find it very disingenuous - one study is proof of nothing and I wouldn't do it if I had any abilities.
I thought his cold reading was poor, it didn't apply to me at all haha. I would need very specific stuff from a medium to be convinced though. I wouldn't let one bad reading put you off - would one good reading convince you?
Derren Brown is great at entertainment, but he and his team controls everything that's going on. Why don't they agree to do testing with Julie or something like that? Infact I think that might have happened before and the mentalist did very badly.
Cheers!
Death bed visions ? http://paranormal.about.com/od/lifeafterdeath/a/visions-death.htmI've stalled at around 100 sales and 100 free, my pal's son is printing a few, so that might be interesting. We've tidied it up a fair bit. It's got good reviews, it's just a straightforward swashbuckling story with a slight spiritual twist.
I've had no feedback from anybody on the forum except Michael2. (I think that's right!)
I've had no feedback from anybody on the forum except Michael2. (I think that's right!)
Yep, totally agree with the first bit. If I got decent publicity I could probably sell a few more, people have enjoyed reading it in the main. Some pilots were really keen, I think you'd have to be a pilot to really enjoy it. Mind you, here is what Piero Calvi-Parisetti wrote about it:
"Steve, this is really funny. How can a "specialty book" like yours turn out to be interesting for anybody who's not into the airline industry? And yet, this is exactly what happened. I started skimming through it, and then, after coming across your near-miss, I went back a read it in full. First and foremost, I marvel at the details of what you can actually remember. Did you keep a diary? Secondly, in an incomprehensible kind of way, the book draws you in. I say incomprehensible because it is in fact a very personal, very technical/inward looking kind of account. And yet. I can't help thinking that if you let go more on the aesthetic side of sthings, for instance by describing sights, scenaries, places, and the feelings these evoked - a bit more of the aviation mistique - it would have even a broader appeal. In any case, thanks for sharing this with me."
Best.
P
Why not just start it off as an ebook? It might give you a clue as to how to move further, at least it's a start. You never know!
"Steve, this is really funny. How can a "specialty book" like yours turn out to be interesting for anybody who's not into the airline industry? And yet, this is exactly what happened. I started skimming through it, and then, after coming across your near-miss, I went back a read it in full. First and foremost, I marvel at the details of what you can actually remember. Did you keep a diary? Secondly, in an incomprehensible kind of way, the book draws you in. I say incomprehensible because it is in fact a very personal, very technical/inward looking kind of account. And yet. I can't help thinking that if you let go more on the aesthetic side of sthings, for instance by describing sights, scenaries, places, and the feelings these evoked - a bit more of the aviation mistique - it would have even a broader appeal. In any case, thanks for sharing this with me."
Best.
P
Why not just start it off as an ebook? It might give you a clue as to how to move further, at least it's a start. You never know!
I have to say, I personally didn't feel as if either of them made their point that well here.
Still quoting the fraudulent Randi's "$1 million challenge" in 2016? Poor.
Saying that you've never come across "cold calling" (he he, nice and that you've never heard of mediums having stooges, mics, using info from completed pre-entrance questionnaires? Extremely, extremely poor, if you ask me. I knew about all of these things decades ago, and my interest in mediums has been very minimal (only increasing the last few years actually, after reading Michael Prescott's blog). I am genuinely astonished that she claims not to be aware of any of these things!
Regardless, thanks for the clip.....nice to see how the topic's being covered on daytime tv!....
Still quoting the fraudulent Randi's "$1 million challenge" in 2016? Poor.
Saying that you've never come across "cold calling" (he he, nice
and that you've never heard of mediums having stooges, mics, using info from completed pre-entrance questionnaires? Extremely, extremely poor, if you ask me. I knew about all of these things decades ago, and my interest in mediums has been very minimal (only increasing the last few years actually, after reading Michael Prescott's blog). I am genuinely astonished that she claims not to be aware of any of these things!Regardless, thanks for the clip.....nice to see how the topic's being covered on daytime tv!....
S
Prescott's critique of the Randi Challenge.
Y'know we should have a booklist for forum members' books.
Y'know we should have a booklist for forum members' books.
Saying that you've never come across "cold calling" (he he, nice and that you've never heard of mediums having stooges, mics, using info from completed pre-entrance questionnaires? Extremely, extremely poor, if you ask me. I knew about all of these things decades ago, and my interest in mediums has been very minimal (only increasing the last few years actually, after reading Michael Prescott's blog). I am genuinely astonished that she claims not to be aware of any of these things!
and that you've never heard of mediums having stooges, mics, using info from completed pre-entrance questionnaires? Extremely, extremely poor, if you ask me. I knew about all of these things decades ago, and my interest in mediums has been very minimal (only increasing the last few years actually, after reading Michael Prescott's blog). I am genuinely astonished that she claims not to be aware of any of these things!
I played the bass guitar( before I had my stroke) and was a total gear maniac, buying and selling basses and amps like there was no tomorrow. (How ironic, cos when it came to bass there was no tomorrow!
)I kept up with the latest bass world news. I met and still keep in touch with a few professionals, I was surprised to learn that many of them stick with a couple of basses for years, and don't have a clue about the latest 'gear'.If this girl had a talent she would probably have no interest in reading about stooges, mics etc. You might think that she's naive, and in the stuff we read about she probably is, if I was good at something I may or may not be obsessed by it, I may be content just 'getting it'.
I have been on both sides of a mediumship reading and it has not convinced me of anything other than there is a phenomenon that is either so big and or so elusive that nobody has come close to really wrap their mind around it. Not thousands of years of religious teachings, not science, and certainly no medium or psychic.
What I have observed is that all people transmit data and that some people have abilities to interpret aspects of that data, whether they are con-artists, illusionists or have psychic abilities. I agree with Steve that there is a certain naivete among mediums to look at their work critically and consider other possibilities.
What I have also observed is that the dynamics in that community are no different than in any other profession or organizations. I have been repeatedly pressured and bullied in mediumship circles to not ask questions and to comply with the doctrine, that I had little choice but leave.
There is useful information coming from a reading and often it is healing. But it does not prove to me that there are any angels or dead relatives out there talking to me. It could just be as plausible that I continuously broadcast the unresolved issues in my subconscious and that this is what is being read back to me.
I also find the content of that information varies from medium to medium and mingles with their own filters. There is a correlation between how they see the world and how they read me. In the meantime, if this information helps me in creating positive changes in my life, then it serves its purpose.
As for bringing up the JREF challenge, I smiled at that. It made him look desperate, exposed how little he examines his own points and is invested in creating a livelihood based on entertainment and debunking psychics. The cold reading was off for me other than the scar. But then again, I also have a scar on my right leg.
What I have observed is that all people transmit data and that some people have abilities to interpret aspects of that data, whether they are con-artists, illusionists or have psychic abilities. I agree with Steve that there is a certain naivete among mediums to look at their work critically and consider other possibilities.
What I have also observed is that the dynamics in that community are no different than in any other profession or organizations. I have been repeatedly pressured and bullied in mediumship circles to not ask questions and to comply with the doctrine, that I had little choice but leave.
There is useful information coming from a reading and often it is healing. But it does not prove to me that there are any angels or dead relatives out there talking to me. It could just be as plausible that I continuously broadcast the unresolved issues in my subconscious and that this is what is being read back to me.
I also find the content of that information varies from medium to medium and mingles with their own filters. There is a correlation between how they see the world and how they read me. In the meantime, if this information helps me in creating positive changes in my life, then it serves its purpose.
As for bringing up the JREF challenge, I smiled at that. It made him look desperate, exposed how little he examines his own points and is invested in creating a livelihood based on entertainment and debunking psychics. The cold reading was off for me other than the scar. But then again, I also have a scar on my right leg.
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