Mod+ DMT Trip Compared to NDE Experience

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chuck.drake

#1
How many similarities can you see between this DMT trip and some NDE accounts.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Psychonaut/comments/20t6x7/1st_dmt_experience/

"I have only done mushrooms and marijuana prior to this experience. I vaporized ~55mg DMT out of an oil rig today, and it was nothing like I expected. I have heard it is more difficult to remember and put into words higher dosage trips, but I will try my best.

I did it all in one hit; before I could exhale, I was racing through a diamond geometric tunnel. I went to heaven. I went to hell. I lived every moment that has ever happened and will ever happen. I experienced life from every being. I am you and you are me; we are just living in separate meat sacks experiencing life from different perspectives. I saw colors that can't be imagined. I experienced the most terrifying moments of my life and also the most pleasurable. I lost control of my body quickly after inhaling- I just felt myself go limp and fade away from this reality. I was in a very cyclic state that was terrifying. It felt as if the only way to end it was to choose death. Everything after that point has no possible words to convey what I experienced. After 10,000 years or possibly a millisecond (my clock said 30 minutes), I woke up in my body again. I laid in the floor laughing and crying for about 20 minutes trying to understand what had just happened and how it could have possibly happened. After I had returned to my body, the remnants of DMT land could be seen in triangular geometric halos around everything in the room, and the rug I was lying on was the most beautiful color I had ever seen. Unreal color. Spotify was playing Sugar Magnolia by Grateful Dead, and I just cried in the floor with the biggest smile on my face. My trip-sitter held my hand, and laughed along with me. It was hard for me to remember where I was and what I had done to end up in the floor. The first thing I said to my sitter was "I love you" with my messy hair and makeup running down my face. I was probably quite a sight! This drug humbles you very quickly and makes you realize nothing you know is real. The incredible possibilities of this drug is limitless. It feels like an answer of some sort. Addictions can be erased, hate can be eliminated, depression could disappear forever. I have never felt as happy as that moment. Pure unfiltered, unbridled love. Stronger than any orgasm, stronger than any "love" I had ever felt up to that point. The trip was an assault of the senses in a way that only someone who has been there can imagine. I can't wait to take a lighter dose in the future and experience the DMT trip from my own body.

Takeaway-- 1. We are not as advanced as we like to think we are. We are so closely related to all other animals. We ARE animals perhaps in a zoo ourselves. The fish does not know he is in water. 2. You wouldn't feed your dog a cake. Why are we poisoning ourselves? 3. Plants are really really cool.

Spread the love, fellow Redditors! You're all special, and DMT not only can but WILL change your mind forever. <3"
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#2
There's an incredible amount of commonality between UFO abductions, Psychedelic visions, and even some of the Fairy encounter stories.

Interesting to see NDEs being added to that list - thanks for that Chuck.
 
C

chuck.drake

#4
Are there any reports from someone who had an NDE and used DMT, and made a comparison of experiences?
Why would that make a difference? If some people are willing to accept the experience of the NDE experiencer who says that they had a transformative experience, why would we not accept the experience of the DMT experiencer who feels they also had a glimpse of a deeper reality and whose life was also transformed? How is this different from the abductee whose experience was transformative? What is the nature of these transformations? What are the similarities? What are the differences? What are the relationships of the experiences to language, culture and intellectual conceptualization? What are the criteria for determining what is "real" and what is not "real"? How do we decide personally? How do we decide as a culture? What is the true nature of psychedelic drugs?

These are all important questions.

Chuck
 
#6
Are there any reports from someone who had an NDE and used DMT, and made a comparison of experiences?
I have encountered a couple of people online who have experienced both. They say there are definitely similarities and definite differences. The feelings of oneness, timelessness, presence of the void, the realization of the fakeness of this reality, even the light (logos) and light beings. All common. It also can be dramatically transformative.

The differences are the entities encountered, although light beings are common to both, the DMT entities range is widespread from elves to aliens and even powerful god like beings. Many many varieties. The other crucial difference is the consistancy of the NDE experience compared to DMT. Although perhaps one in a hundred trips may resemble very closely a NDE even with aspects of life review, but the DMT experience can vary widely. Memory formation is another difference. Memories seem long lasting with clarity in NDE. With DMT a strong dose may leave you grasping for what just happened like how a dream evaporates before you can get out of bed. With a really big dose you may not remember much or anything at all. Some people record themselves immediately on return or just start talking about it straight away to solidify the experience. Sometimes I have had the feeling like you are not supposed to know, or some beings may acuse you of cheating! "You are not supposed to be here!". Others are extremely happy to see you, other seemingly powerful beings may regard you as something like an ant and pay no attention at all.

I have never had an NDE so I can't really compare to well, but I am struck by the similarity in descriptions. Smoking freebase DMT is an experience like no other, it will definately make you question the realness of this reality. It can be quite terrifying. Even writing this makes my heart race and palm sweat just thinking about it. If you ever want to experience the extremes of consciousness, that is the way. Definately not for the faint hearted, it is EXTREME. May be the closest thing to actually dying, it certainly feels that way.

IMO the similarities are not because of any induced illusion but simply because the veil is lifted.
 
#7
Smoking freebase DMT is an experience like no other, it will definately make you question the realness of this reality. It can be quite terrifying. Even writing this makes my heart race and palm sweat just thinking about it. If you ever want to experience the extremes of consciousness, that is the way. Definately not for the faint hearted, it is EXTREME. May be the closest thing to actually dying, it certainly feels that way.
Does that explain the avatar? :)

Cheers,
Bill
 
#9
How many similarities can you see between this DMT trip and some NDE accounts.
I didn't read the posted account but I think that substances like DMT can act to lower some of the standard filters and allow one to objectively access more of the expanse of existence. Of course, in that access most people will translate things back into understandable physical terms.
 
#10
Why would that make a difference? If some people are willing to accept the experience of the NDE experiencer who says that they had a transformative experience, why would we not accept the experience of the DMT experiencer who feels they also had a glimpse of a deeper reality and whose life was also transformed? How is this different from the abductee whose experience was transformative? What is the nature of these transformations? What are the similarities? What are the differences? What are the relationships of the experiences to language, culture and intellectual conceptualization? What are the criteria for determining what is "real" and what is not "real"? How do we decide personally? How do we decide as a culture? What is the true nature of psychedelic drugs?

These are all important questions.

Chuck
I don't know about "important" but I do see them as valid and interesting. Especially "What is the nature of these transformations? " How are these people different after their "transformative experience"? A phrase that, in other circles, people have used in conjunction with just about every experience.
 
C

chuck.drake

#12
I don't know about "important" but I do see them as valid and interesting. Especially "What is the nature of these transformations? " How are these people different after their "transformative experience"? A phrase that, in other circles, people have used in conjunction with just about every experience.
What is the nature of the transformations? Do we treat our pets with more kindness? Do we feel more "connected" with the "greater whole?" Do we express our love and affection more freely with our families? Do our hearts open in compassion to the universe? Do we feel driven to spread some "message" to humanity? Are we inclined to consume less?

What do these things mean? All those transformations have to do with living here in physical reality. Although they may feel right to certain people, they could in fact be deeply imagined beliefs.
 
#14
I don't understand any of this stuff. I'm not sure if it is similar to the study you mentioned.

http://psychedelicresearch.org/?p=58
Thanks Chuck. I didn't really get the whole IOR thing either, but it does sound a bit different than what I was thinking of. I'm not even sure they investigated what I was thinking of.

For those curious in the psilocybin study I talk about it here (and link to Bernardo's article which has more detail)

http://exploreabitmore.blogspot.com/2014/02/hallucinogenic-mushrooms-psilocybin-and.html

Is it just me, or does the psilocybin sound different and perhaps more fitting to the filter model of the brain? I would have thought DMT would stand out even more in these regards.
 
#15
I have encountered a couple of people online who have experienced both. They say there are definitely similarities and definite differences. The feelings of oneness, timelessness, presence of the void, the realization of the fakeness of this reality, even the light (logos) and light beings. All common. It also can be dramatically transformative.

The differences are the entities encountered, although light beings are common to both, the DMT entities range is widespread from elves to aliens and even powerful god like beings. Many many varieties. The other crucial difference is the consistancy of the NDE experience compared to DMT. Although perhaps one in a hundred trips may resemble very closely a NDE even with aspects of life review, but the DMT experience can vary widely. Memory formation is another difference. Memories seem long lasting with clarity in NDE. With DMT a strong dose may leave you grasping for what just happened like how a dream evaporates before you can get out of bed. With a really big dose you may not remember much or anything at all. Some people record themselves immediately on return or just start talking about it straight away to solidify the experience. Sometimes I have had the feeling like you are not supposed to know, or some beings may acuse you of cheating! "You are not supposed to be here!". Others are extremely happy to see you, other seemingly powerful beings may regard you as something like an ant and pay no attention at all.

I have never had an NDE so I can't really compare to well, but I am struck by the similarity in descriptions. Smoking freebase DMT is an experience like no other, it will definately make you question the realness of this reality. It can be quite terrifying. Even writing this makes my heart race and palm sweat just thinking about it. If you ever want to experience the extremes of consciousness, that is the way. Definately not for the faint hearted, it is EXTREME. May be the closest thing to actually dying, it certainly feels that way.

IMO the similarities are not because of any induced illusion but simply because the veil is lifted.
One outstanding person who had NDE, psychedelic trips and a lot of other spiritual experiences, self-induced by different practices, is John C. Lilly. I strongly recommend you to read his "Center of the Cyclone" book. It is superb, and contains both vivid descriptions of experiences and a detailed conceptual analysis of them, with a personal narrative of the author.
 
#16
You could say that. It's Alex Grey's oversoul. The image for me represents the connection with cosmic consciousness.
Another thoughtfully and meaningfully chosen avatar - congratulations! With some pride (just a little ego-massage won't harm ;)), I spent a good time choosing mine. I googled "Star of Chaos" and then was browsing the pictures for long, carefully looking for the best image. At last, I chose the one you see, with the vortex emanating from its center. Chaos is pure psychophysical process, feared and rejected by people who usually stay in specific sociosemiotic structure of Cosmos. But Chaos and Cosmos are both necessary to achieve their synthesis, the noetic integrity of Chaosmos.
 
C

chuck.drake

#17
Another thoughtfully and meaningfully chosen avatar - congratulations! With some pride (just a little ego-massage won't harm ;)), I spent a good time choosing mine. I googled "Star of Chaos" and then was browsing the pictures for long, carefully looking for the best image. At last, I chose the one you see, with the vortex emanating from its center. Chaos is pure psychophysical process, feared and rejected by people who usually stay in specific sociosemiotic structure of Cosmos. But Chaos and Cosmos are both necessary to achieve their synthesis, the noetic integrity of Chaosmos.
Nice.
 
C

chuck.drake

#18
Thanks Chuck. I didn't really get the whole IOR thing either, but it does sound a bit different than what I was thinking of. I'm not even sure they investigated what I was thinking of.

For those curious in the psilocybin study I talk about it here (and link to Bernardo's article which has more detail)

http://exploreabitmore.blogspot.com/2014/02/hallucinogenic-mushrooms-psilocybin-and.html

Is it just me, or does the psilocybin sound different and perhaps more fitting to the filter model of the brain? I would have thought DMT would stand out even more in these regards.
There appear to be many marked differences between psilocybin and DMT. I've only ever done mushrooms and that wasn't in heroic doses and it was decades ago. DMT is appealing because the trip is short lived. None of them are to be taken lightly of course. They are serious tools. DMT is quite concentrated in many common plants. Extracting it involves some knowledge of chemistry, as you can see by firing up your TOR browser.

https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.en
 
#20

DMT, or dimethyltryptamine, is ironically the safest yet strongest psychedelic substance known to man. As an organic molecule it is ubiquitous in nature, occurring in organisms as diverse as marine sponges to common grass. You consume DMT all the time; the reason you don't trip balls after eating a Caesar salad is because it is orally inactive due to the presence of an enzyme called monoamine oxidase in the gut that metabolises DMT into non-psychoactive metabolites. OK the Caesar salad was an exaggeration as DMT only occurs in trace amounts in most things, although it is particularly concentrated in plants such as psychotria viridis, various species of acacia, various species of desmanthus, and many others. When a DMT-rich plant is mixed with a plant rich in monoamine oxidase inhibitors, such as banisteriopsis caapi, or syrian rue, the DMT becomes orally active and is known as ayahuasca.

During the 1990s Dr. Rick Strassman conducted the first human experiments with DMT in many decades. Although he knew DMT was a potent psychedelic, he wasn't prepared for the fantastical reports of his patients; over and over again volunteers reported strange entities and alien words that were strikingly consistent in their characteristics, in 2001 he published a book about these reports in which he was forced to seriously consider that what these people were experiencing was not just the result of drug-perturbed minds, but that the DMT-space and DMT-entities that his volunteers kept reporting were in fact objectively real and that this remarkable chemical may indeed transport its users to another, yet undiscovered, place or dimension.
 
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