Do You See What I See?

#1
I was thinking about an article I read a while back about technology being developed to record the actual memories created in the brain. Here it is: (source)

Wouldn't it be great to apply this to the study of NDEs someday? Think how far the AWARE study could go if we could have a third-party, replayable video recording of a first-hand NDE account! They could wait years to talk to cardiac arrest patients, and even if the subjects didn't look at the targets near the ceiling during their NDE, the recording of their memories would show exactly what happened from their perspective! It could very well revolutionize the whole of science, let alone the paranormal fields!
 
#2
It will never happen because memories will never be found in the brain. Personally speaking, it tops my list as the most absurd commonly held assumption regarding consciousness and the brain. But it would be cool.

A brain doesn't exist in isolation of other things and memories don't form in a vacuous space void of input. Scientists might as well search for an individual's memory traces up their own assholes. At least there they won't have to say they didn't find shit.
 
#3
It will never happen because memories will never be found in the brain. Personally speaking, it tops my list as the most absurd commonly held assumption regarding consciousness and the brain. But it would be cool.

A brain doesn't exist in isolation of other things and memories don't form in a vacuous space void of input. Scientists might as well search for an individual's memory traces up their own assholes. At least there they won't have to say they didn't find shit.
You have a wonderful way of taking advanced concepts and making them accessible to the lowest common denominator.
 
#5
This reminds me of the claims they make about AI. They are so woefully lost on both points I literally lol ever time I see a new headline like this or about how robots will be humans, 2.0 in about 3 years.

But let's just say they are finally capable of creating AI. True, self-aware, indistinguishable from humans, AI. Would this necessarily prove consciousness is created by the brain? Would it prove abiogenesis? Not necessarily. First, if they were able to create AI, it would not disprove the filter theory of brain/consciousness. If the right conditions are met, perhaps consciousness could still be filtered through this "artificial" brain. Second, it could not prove abiogenesis as it would be something created by another intelligence, us.
 
#6
This reminds me of the claims they make about AI. They are so woefully lost on both points I literally lol ever time I see a new headline like this or about how robots will be humans, 2.0 in about 3 years.

But let's just say they are finally capable of creating AI. True, self-aware, indistinguishable from humans, AI. Would this necessarily prove consciousness is created by the brain? Would it prove abiogenesis? Not necessarily. First, if they were able to create AI, it would not disprove the filter theory of brain/consciousness. If the right conditions are met, perhaps consciousness could still be filtered through this "artificial" brain. Second, it could not prove abiogenesis as it would be something created by another intelligence, us.
Ghosts in the shells. I loved that anime.
 
#12
I was thinking about an article I read a while back about technology being developed to record the actual memories created in the brain. Here it is: (source)

Wouldn't it be great to apply this to the study of NDEs someday? Think how far the AWARE study could go if we could have a third-party, replayable video recording of a first-hand NDE account! They could wait years to talk to cardiac arrest patients, and even if the subjects didn't look at the targets near the ceiling during their NDE, the recording of their memories would show exactly what happened from their perspective! It could very well revolutionize the whole of science, let alone the paranormal fields!

Brainstorm - 1983


Brilliant researchers Lillian Reynolds and Michael Brace have developed a system of recording and playing back actual experiences of people. Once the capability of tapping into "higher brain functions" is added in, and you can literally jump into someone else's head and play back recordings of what he or she was thinking, feeling, seeing, etc., at the time of the recording, the applications for the project quickly spiral out of control. While Michael Brace uses the system to become close again to Karen Brace, his estranged wife who also works on the project, others start abusing it for intense sexual experiences and other logical but morally questionable purposes. The government tries to kick Michael and Lillian off the project once the vast military potential of the technology is discovered. It soon becomes obvious that the government is interested in more than just missile guidance systems. The lab starts producing mind torture recordings and other psychosis inducing material. When one of the researchers dies and tapes the experience of death, Michael is convinced that he must playback this tape to honor the memory of the researcher and to become enlightened. When another researcher dies during playback the tape is locked away and Michael has to fight against his former colleagues and the government lackeys that now run his lab in order to play back and confront the "scariest thing any of us will ever face" - death itself.
 
#13
I don't understand most of your comments and this one is no exception.
Oh. An attempt to clarify.

Memories aren't stored anywhere.
If memories aren't stored "anywhere", and we agree memories take the form of thoughts, might we also say thoughts do not appear from "anywhere" as well? Supposing memory-thoughts are not stored in “the brain” (or colon), from what/where would memories and thoughts appear?

A common human trait is to have strong personal attachments to our thoughts, as if my "special and personal brain" is crafting uniquely individual thoughts, just for me. Most believe thoughts appear via the brain, and then some seem to believe that there are thoughts (apart from "personal thoughts") "inspired/channeled from spirits/aliens/ghosts/angels/demons/etc", yet perhaps all thoughts are "channeled" (or appearing from "no/somewhere"). Including the thought that all thoughts are channeled.
 
#14
If memories aren't stored "anywhere", and we agree memories take the form of thoughts, might we also say thoughts do not appear from "anywhere" as well?
I would agree at this point that thoughts do not occur anywhere as well. What has been found in the brain and what will be found in the brain are not thoughts, because thoughts are an experience. It would be like stating that these words and text characters are literally Sexy's thoughts, which of course they are not.
Supposing memory-thoughts are not stored in “the brain” (or colon), from what/where would memories and thoughts appear?
I don't think they appear from anywhere except from the mind. And I don't think the mind has an actual location. The idea of place and location is the mind imagining things and forgetting that it's only imagining them.
A common human trait is to have strong personal attachments to our thoughts, as if my "special and personal brain" is crafting uniquely individual thoughts, just for me. Most believe thoughts appear via the brain, and then some seem to believe that there are thoughts (apart from "personal thoughts") "inspired/channeled from spirits/aliens/ghosts/angels/demons/etc", yet perhaps all thoughts are "channeled" (or appearing from "no/somewhere"). Including the thought that all thoughts are channeled.
I don't accept that memories take the form of thoughts. Regardless of the type of memory, it seems to me that thoughts only occur immediately before and after memories, while the memory remains independent of the thoughts... Thoughts compose the substance of thinking, and thinking occurs in "real time" in the present moment. You can't have a thought in the past. However, you can have a memory of thougt that occurred in the past, but that thought would not be a thought, it would be a memory :)

I'm a monist before anything else. Non-duality is the only philosophical or spiritual idea I accept whole-heartedly and without question. So really, I don't believe that locations- or the idea that things (or thinks) travel from one realm to another- has any real fundamental validity to it, other than a means by which we have chosen to interpret our imaginary experience as imaginary indivuals in imaginary places where we travel to even deeper sub-levels of imiginations within imaginations within imaginations...
 
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#17
I would agree at this point that thoughts do not occur anywhere as well. What has been found in the brain and what will be foundl in the brain are not thoughts, because thoughts are an experience. It would be like stating that these words and text characters are litterally Sexy's thoughts, which of course they are not.

I don't think they appear from anywhere except from the mind. And I don't think the mind has an actual location. The idea of place and location is the mind imagining things and forgetting that its only imagining them.


I don't accept that memories take the form of thoughts. Regardeless of the type of memory, it seems to me that thoughts only occur imediately before and after memories, while the memory remains independent of the thoughts... Thoughts compose the substance of thinking, and thinking occurs in "real time" in the present moment. You can't have a thought in the past. However, you can have a memory of thougt that occurred in the past, but that thought would not be a thought, it would be a memory :)

I'm a monist before anything else. Non-duality is the only philosophical or spiritual idea I accept whole-heartedly and without question. So really, I don't believe that locations- or the idea that things (or thinks) travel from one realm to another- has any real fundamental validity to it, other than a means by which we have chosen to interpret our imaginary experience as imaginary indivuals in imaginary places where we travel to even deeper sub-levels of imiginations within imaginations within imaginatins...
... What?
 
#19
I would agree at this point that thoughts do not occur anywhere as well. What has been found in the brain and what will be foundl in the brain are not thoughts, because thoughts are an experience. It would be like stating that these words and text characters are litterally Sexy's thoughts, which of course they are not.

I don't think they appear from anywhere except from the mind. And I don't think the mind has an actual location. The idea of place and location is the mind imagining things and forgetting that its only imagining them.


I don't accept that memories take the form of thoughts. Regardeless of the type of memory, it seems to me that thoughts only occur imediately before and after memories, while the memory remains independent of the thoughts... Thoughts compose the substance of thinking, and thinking occurs in "real time" in the present moment. You can't have a thought in the past. However, you can have a memory of thougt that occurred in the past, but that thought would not be a thought, it would be a memory :)

I'm a monist before anything else. Non-duality is the only philosophical or spiritual idea I accept whole-heartedly and without question. So really, I don't believe that locations- or the idea that things (or thinks) travel from one realm to another- has any real fundamental validity to it, other than a means by which we have chosen to interpret our imaginary experience as imaginary indivuals in imaginary places where we travel to even deeper sub-levels of imiginations within imaginations within imaginatins...
You can actually write serious things. Thats unexpected.
So, you mean that we could be just imagining everything and we are actually just idk, some sort of things somewhere where imagination forms reality (or where we are imagination itself)? That would mean that we just like change our imaginated reality later on, dont we? That would also imply that we'd just imagine that we die.
 
#20
If this were possible, what you would find is that most people aren't really all that present in their own minds. Except for profound experiences people generally skip all over the place and have a hard time concentrating.
Yeah, everyday thoughts would be a random mishmash between 10-20 different things in just a minute.

But one thing that would be interesting though, would be to record the entire "world" one builds up when reading a book - about the characters, how they look, how the environment look, how it smells, feels etc. At least when I read a book I build up this little "world" of it - and I assume most others do as well. Why it would be interesting "recording" just that is because when reading a book you are very focused and following a single thread of thought - the storyline of the book - for a long period of time. There would be less skipping and mishmash there I think and it would give a long solid recording of our imagination.

Have you ever read some sci/fi-books you probably know how one builds up those worlds to something amazing many times. The images from this video comes to mind.

 
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