Dr. Jeffrey Kripal Explores the Erotic in the Mystical & Religious |369|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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    Okay, glad to clear that up

    Well if you had earlier I wouldn't have needed to bother joining this conversation.

    They're both violations of a childs body against their will and they are both genital mutilation, while I agree one is obviously much more serious in deathtoll they're both morally reprehensible. Should more resources be given to stopping FGM than to Circumcision? Probably.
     
  2. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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    I'm sorry to say that I do not see how your response answers my two questions. This appears to me an ideological response where you are given license to claim that any organization even the peace corps must in principle be corrupt, in lieu of evidence.

    I'll grant that institutions tend to be corrupt but I have not seen evidence that the peace corp is one of those institutions, and I've not seen evidence that were it to be corrupt that the corruption is severe enough to invalidate their efforts.
    Lastly, assuming a perfect world where there was an agency out there made by Africans, staffed by Africans which treated Africans in Africa would you be opposed to other people (not even yourself) donating to these organization?
     
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  3. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Right - though I would add that FGM also maims a woman permanently (possibly barring Western medical intervention).

    Now what I want to know is, does anyone here disagree with that statement, and why?

    Well that woman had emigrated to the West, which is why she had access to Western medicine, and she is part of a campaign against FGM (sorry I forget her name). Arguing that FGM may be less of a problem than something else - e.g. malaria - doesn't make much sense to me - I mean FGM is imposed by a community.

    David
     
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  4. Alex

    Alex New

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    thx to all for this offshoot. it was interesting and I learned some stuff... that's always the payoff for me :)

    my final two cents... the dr. ask us if we wanted circumcision on both our boys... option was ours.
     
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  5. Skeptiko001

    Skeptiko001 Member

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    Sure that’s fair— FYI myself and many doctors/providers often over generalize to make a point so take care to not be too literal

    Obviously generalizing no deaths in US was loose, sorry if not apparent. When you do the statistics worldwide on the two, you cannot even begin to compare !

    Like saying “kids don’t get strokes, adults do”. Of course there’s a <1% very rare subgroup of children with stroke (like male circumcision death in US)








    UOTE="LetsEat, post: 121378, member: 3477"]Okay, glad to clear that up


    Well if you had earlier I wouldn't have needed to bother joining this conversation.


    They're both violations of a childs body against their will and they are both genital mutilation, while I agree one is obviously much more serious in deathtoll they're both morally reprehensible. Should more resources be given to stopping FGM than to Circumcision? Probably.[/QUOTE]
     
  6. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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    Fair enough, I often over-generalize as well but I admit its a bad habit. It obfuscates issues more than it inspires confidence in what I'm saying to be valuable.
     
  7. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

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    Jeanice Barcelo was on the Higherside Chats and she framed circumcision (as well as many of the birth protocols) as being part of a process that de-humanizes us and prepares us for a lifetime of being controlled.
    https://www.thehighersidechats.com/jeanice-barcelo-hospital-birth/

    I was not snipped (my parents are brits) and aside from a slightly embarrassing phase in high school where they make boys shower together I've never wished to have my sensitivity reduced and I've been no more susceptible to infections than any other person who washes on a regular basis. I don't have children, but if I did I wouldn't intentionally harm or disfigure them.
     
  8. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    I don't think that the UN being corrupt is even remotely relevant to whether or not one should be concerned with stopping a systematic torture of a group of people. Just because the UN may profit from it (if they do) doesn't even touch the horror of FGM or even begin to suggest that it is, therefore, somehow okay. You can be critical of the UN and still like to see women not being tortured at the same time.
     
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  9. Michael Patterson

    Michael Patterson New

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    I have just finished reading Secret Bodies. Given that this book was what prompted the interview with Jeff I thought it might be worthwhile sharing the review I am about to post on Amazon - kindle.


    SECRET BODY REVIEW

    My first impression of Secret Body was that this isn’t a book to be read by those who sensibilities are politicized and prone speedy angst. At the end, that’s still the case for me, but there are a few others I’d also discourage.

    Secret Body is an autobiographical tour of critical points in our culture’s efforts to break through the determined grip of dogma exerted by the religious and materialist conservatives alike over the last 50 years. It is a tour guided by a professional scholar of religion who traces his own significant adventures, and those of key thinkers and players, many of whom he has known, and knows, personally.

    Kripal has elected to follow a particular trajectory, one that steps away from the theme of traditions and what is good to think, based upon them. That trajectory traces one path through the revolutionizing influences that came into the Western psyche – the Eastern influences of yogic, Tantric and Buddhist traditions, the passion to investigate psi and paranormal phenomena, psychotropic drugs, the UFO/ET phenomena and more.

    How do these have anything to do with religion? If you are sitting up and paying attention this book is for you – but only if you value the scholarship on a professional who inquires into these things for a living.

    There are many fine writers on these themes who have benefited from an academic education, but who then write for a wider audience with the skill and discipline they gained. It should go without saying that Secret Bodies must be read by any student or academic wanting to follow a similar pathway. This logic is reflected in the asking price, which is 3 times what you’d pay for it - if the book was aimed at a wider, more popular audience.

    But Kripal brings another level here. His scholarship is exemplary. His writing is well crafted and a pleasure to read. Even so the real treat is that here is a thinker who has boldly placed himself as an embedded observer, and participant, at the messy and still disreputable frontier. That frontier will become the homeland for those who are dedicated to comprehending human consciousness beyond the safe constraints of dogma and the persistently reinforced cultural norms.

    So if you are wondering whether this book is worth the $50 odd I say it is worth twice the price – provided you meet the conditions I have stated above. This is for the serious thinker.

    Kripal and I are close enough in age for me to have that uncanny sense that he has written a beautifully crafted personal version of the same essential story of my life. However I am not a professional thinker on religion – just a dedicated amateur. I know this story, and, as a consequence, I know that Kripal has told his version with deep integrity, passion and insight.

    I must caution the reader that Secret Bodies is not an encyclopedia of the past 50 years or so. It is a personal account of a particular body of experiences and thought. It is unique and, I think, a singular contribution to the accounting of an extraordinary period in our culture’s history.
     
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