Dr. Mariana Caplan — Does Yoga Work? |382|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    Looks like this episode is missing from the free first hour section. There's your interview on mar 16, and before that John Brisson's on the 9th. Nothing for the 13th with Lori Handrahan as far as I can see...
     
  2. I think Alex mentioned in the podcast ( I couldn't find it in the transcribed excerpts), that sometimes during a yoga session a person can experience an emotional release. I agree this can happen and be a good thing. I just want to add that sometimes an emotional release is not necessarily what it seems. Sometimes when brain chemistry is off, it can cause a similar feeling like you have some suppressed thought or emotion or something from your past that you need to release and think through ... but it is really just caused by a fluctuation in brain chemistry. A good "thanksgiving dinner" that raises your serotonin levels can fix a situation like that (more than hours of introspection) at which point you can't understand why it seemed so important in the first place. I'm not saying this is always the case - sometimes suppressed thoughts and emotions do need to be made conscious. But I think in spiritual circles there is a tendency to focus on mental activity and ignore organic factors. I believe consciousness is non-physical, but vision is mediated through the brain, hearing is mediated through the brain, so why should at least some emotions not be mediated by the brain? I like to point this out because I think sometimes people get stuck thinking their spiritual practices aren't working and they blame themselves when the problem is something organic that cannot, for practical purposes, be changed by mental techniques alone. (Although the mental and the organic are not always entirely separate and effects can be interrelated.)
     
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  3. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Well sometimes i think shock therapy is the only way to reform certain professions. The Catholics take a very extreme attitude to sex that has, in itself, hurt a lot of people. Then to discover that there is a persistent problem with priests taking out their frustrations (created by the Church) on kids is too much! When I first heard of this problem, I assumed that the Church would clamp down so severely that there would never be a repetition, but clearly they didn't.

    David
     
  4. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Well I don't disagree with you, in that I haven't followed this as closely as you, but that doesn't conflict with my view that Catholic priests should no-longer be given any benefit of the doubt in these matters.

    David
     
  5. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    You make a fair point about the Catholic church's attitude to sex and how they should clamp down on paedophilia where they find it. I assume the fact they don't has something to do with the typical institutional instinct to hush up scandals. The same could be said of the Anglican church, or Islam for that matter.

    And then, there's the movie industry, which also for many years turned a blind eye to sexual impropriety. And what about politicians like Edward Heath and Cyril Smith? What was done about them in their lifetimes? Paedophilia is present in many institutions, and many of them would rather not wash their dirty linen in public. Why didn't the BBC clamp down on Jimmy Saville when it was common knowledge he was a bad 'un? Jill Dando, the presenter who was murdered, raised her concerns about a paedophile ring at the BBC.

    I'm not excusing paedophilia, far from it. But why pay special attention to Catholicism when it's probably no worse than other religious denominations, the movie industry, government or the BBC? The irony is, some of these other institutions are piling on, possibly to distract attention from themselves.
    So what about clerics in other denominations, politicians, members of the media and so on? Should we give them the benefit of the doubt?
     
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  6. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I was unaware of that connection between her murder and the BBC paedophile scandal!

    David
     
  7. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I think the first thing is to expose evidence - there has been a lot of evidence against the Catholic Church, in addition to evidence of severe physical abuse in a children's home in NI.

    David
     
  8. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    I assume you are referring to the Kincora home scandal in NI. That isn't actually a Catholic church issue, but involved Orangemen, who are protestants. Listen to the audio clips: It's a classic example of institutional cover-up by the boy's home itself, MI5, and government. It illustrates perfectly what I was saying about institutional instincts. It's not just the Catholic church, but a general malaise in society, and by concentrating on Catholic priests, one is playing into the hands of those other institutions that want to distract from their own shortcomings.

    I'm not against prosecutions for child abuse: but let's have them for any and all cases. In focussing mainly on the Catholic church, the impression is being created that paedophilia is largely a Catholic issue. But far from it: it's present in most institutions. It might appear that, being an ex-Catholic, I'm defending the church, but that's not the case. It's more that I want equal attention to be paid to prosecuting paedophilia wherever it occurs.
     
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  9. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I it was this Catholic institution I had in mind:
    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...-the-children-no-chance-in-life-30884556.html

    What a horrible mess - I don't like organised religion!

    I suppose there are two things - prosecution for those involved, but also mechanisms to make abuse much less easy. Insisting that priests should never be alone with a child doesn't seem unreasonable to me given all they have done.

    David
     
  10. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    You're still singling out Catholic priests rather than Protestant clergy, people in the entertainment industry, politicians, members of most if not all large and powerful institutions. Actually, anyone is as suspect as anyone else, even parents and other kin. What you're implying, if you but realised it, is that no one should be left alone with children, whilst at the same time suggesting that one group is especially to be regarded with suspicion.

    You appear to have bought into the zeitgeist about Catholic priests, who, I repeat, are probably no more likely than anyone else to be paedophiles, as the article that Jim posted suggested. It's just that the Catholic clergy come from one of the largest and most international of institutions, and so have one of the the largest absolute numbers of paedophiles, albeit that in percentage terms they may be no more than average, and possibly even less than average.

    As long as folk play this game, they're blinding themselves to the paedophilia occurring outside the Catholic church. I say, be vigilant regardless of who looks after children, but try not to be completely paranoid.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
  11. Public schools are a cesspit of pedophilia run by government with attendance mandated by government. Why do we trust public school teachers with our children?

    http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/northeast-tarrant/article213202594.html

    June 14, 2018
    A 33-year-old school counselor is accused of having sex with a ninth-grade student nearly a dozen times and even told the student's sister that she would leave her husband for him, according to an arrest affidavit.



     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
  12. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I should point out that in the UK you pay a lot of money to go to a 'public school' and none to go to a state school - so let's not get confused here!

    Women teachers certainly should not behave like that, but somehow I find this behavior less reprehensible than that of a male pupil - assuming it was totally consensual - maybe I shouldn't.

    Well I don't like any of it, but people don't focus their dislike of something in a carefully balanced way! I think the Catholic Church did something beastly - turning people's normal human sexual feelings into sins - even before we think about their sexual abuse kids. They were, and are the ultimate hypocrites. I mean even those priests - presumably the majority - that didn't actually abuse, didn't really rise en-mass and demand that this problem be rooted out - in many cases they helped covered it up.

    I know a man who went to a Catholic secondary school many years ago, and he described how they were quizzed about whether they had masturbated! I would call this a form of mental sexual abuse (and it would probably be illegal in any other context), and these were priest-teachers just doing their job!

    I'll bet Islam has an equally terrible problem, but our wretched PC culture helps to conceal it.

    Do you think it is time to get back to the spiritual aspects of Yoga? @Alex you seemed to indicate that you are deeply into Yoga - why not expound a bit on that?

    David
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  13. You shouldn't. You are blaming the victim. Absolutely the wrong thing to do. It is not a joke. This kind of abuse does immense psychological harm to the victim. How can there be "consent" when the abuser has the power to determine the grade she gives to a student in her class?
     
  14. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I doubt whether it is often like that. The student would presumably be very close to the age of consent, and force can't be applied - if the boy isn't ready, its not going to happen! To me male and female are just different, and trying to make them equal in every aspect of life is probably silly.

    David
     
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  15. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    What kind of yoga? Americanized?
     
  16. Michael Patterson

    Michael Patterson New

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    Pell was taken to Rome because he was a hard man on finance, rather than because he had a passion for boys. The Vatican needs a lot of reforming and it may all be beyond one pope. There was a video on Australian public board casting tv asserting that a indulgent homosexual lifestyle was rampant in the Vatican and others have claimed that if the Vatican was to remove its gay priests the place would fall apart. It may be that the Vatican is a cesspit of depravity now - but was it ever otherwise? I think a review of its history would be instructive.

    I am aware the claims to which Alex refers. There is likely some truth in them, but how much is another question. The Vatican and the pope are safe targets for people to make up stuff - can't be verified and denials are easy to disbelieve.
     
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  17. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Pedophile acceptance is the next frontier in the Sexual Revolution.

    You laugh at the idea that Sesame Street will one day have a Pedophile character who teaches children to be accepting and not fear his sexual orientation.

    In the 1980's my Grandfather laughed at the idea Homosexuals would ever get married with State sanction.

    “Pedophilia is a Natural Sexual Orientation”.

     
  18. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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  19. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

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    I have to say increasingly these podcasts seem to become about Alex's personal bone to pick with the guest rather than anything about what the guest actually does.

    I've come away from this podcast, and many more recently having not learned much at all.
     
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  20. Banjo

    Banjo Member

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    This is so disgusting but true. Having grown up in Omaha Nebraska I became very aware of child rape rings due to the Franklin Credit Union Scandal. Maybe 5 years ago I knew a director and photographer who took naked pictures of his kids and posted them on instagram. A forum for mothers somehow caught wind of this and said that many of the pictures were sexualizing the kids. They flagged these pictures on IG which turned into a battle on the forum for mothers. There were some people on the forum who pointed out that when the photographer released the pictures to the public there would be people who would take the pictures to the dark web archives for pedos. The people making these warnings said they had pics taken as kids that were taken into the underground and every time a pedo gets busted and their pictures are on the computer they get notified. The people pointing this out stated that they get about one notification a month and it psychologically disturbs them. They asked the photographer to consider this and protect his kids but the photographer claimed these moms were trying to take away his right to free speech. When he started making this free speech claim I told a ladyfriend that this will get national press. She thought I was crazy but within a few days the huffington post had done and article and I think the NYT both on how he was being oppressed by these moms who were concerned that his children would have to go through what they went through. He then threatened the forum with legal action to shut down the thread which displayed his narcissism and blatant disregard for concerns about his child's safety. He then released a book selling all of the questionable pictures to whomever wanted them. When you know the agenda it is easy to predict the actions of the press.

    This video is crazy but follows the usual path..."(insert group here)Pedos are suffering terribly and are victims of their genetics and our cruel outdated cultural mores. They don't choose to be this way etc and just can't find help due to how cruel we are (meaning the culture should change instead of the pedo taking action to control themselves, seek out help and live within our culture's laws)." Probably what will come next is the media sensationalizing a statutory rape case between a person just below the age of consent and the other just above and then trying to garner support to end such laws.
     
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