Drawing conclusions from NDEs: it's all good or striving for perfection?

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#1
Moved from the Donald Trump thread!

I wrote:
The problem is that I'm too full of ego. Once again, I'm back to that same question about ego. Should I be authentic and get involved, pissing off my pals, or try very hard to 'stay calm' and be happy just to observe?
Steve, my 2 cents. (And I'm just picking this up because you often come back to this question.) My conclusion drawn from deep NDErs is: it's all good, no matter what you do, and you shouldn't fret about it (unless you want the experience of fretting!). :)

Anita Moorjani:

I would want you to know that every part of you is magnificent - your ego, intellect, body, and spirit. It's who you are - a beautiful product of this Universe's creation. Every aspect of you is perfect. There's nothing to let go, nothing to forgive, nothing to attain. You already are everything you need to be. (Dying to Be Me, 2012, p. 182-183).

Nanci L. Danison:

Light Beings do not inhabit humans in order to evolve spiritually. Light Beings do not need to evolve because we are Source. We define Source as the highest level possible. What higher status could we possibly attain? Human life offers nothing other than learning what human life is like. (Answers from the Afterlife, 2016, p. 95).
Then Steve posted:

Thanks Ian.
....yes, though I'm afraid that I'm not convinced by either passage, the skeptic in me just isn't that keen on the people that are all "love and light lalala" :D

Maybe you're right, I just want the experience of fretting ! ;) But it's not really that I fret, rather that I'm excited by looking for an answer that fits.

Anita Moorjani is high in my estimation at the moment, because she recently had a live session on Facebook and it was gold dust, every point she made and every question that she answered hit the spot in the 29mins she was live. Really enjoyed the session, I sent it to my mum as I though that she was her circumstances were exactly described in one of Anita's problem scenarios. She loved it. Strange because I never normally listen to her Facebook stuff...mmm.

It may be that these paragraphs above are ultimately correct, at some level we are God, I can agree, but after that is where I part with the ladies as the passages stand. We're not there yet. I don't think that when we die we go back to being perfect, or as perfect as the light can be ( I don't think God is perfect, just a hell of a lot closer to perfection than we are). There are many reports from the afterlife that we review our lives in detail and spend a great deal of effort and time(if time exists elsewhere) planning our next life. Why would we need to do that if we were already 'the light'?

Maybe we are, but we get separated from God while we are growing? But what use would that be if the ultimate aim is to reach a level that we're already at? I don't think we can begin to understand the full picture, though maybe we are allowed to enter the light for a while after we pass, so that a loving God and his 'sons and daughters' can reacquaint themselves before once again becoming separated?

I think that we have a serious job to do for God, I don't think it's just a fun park. The lesson is that it can be a fun park if we make the right choices, but until we reach much higher levels of consciousness, we remain separate from the light most of the time. That's my creative ramblings on the subject for this moment in time, I bet somewhere Gods aware of my frustrations/limitations/weaknesses but also my determination/spirit/love of life and this makes him laugh deep in his belly. I wouldn't like to be perfect - it's boring!

As always I return to Manjit who constantly reminds me of what our 'truth' might be:

"And I can't help but feel that the universe, reality, consciousness, being, divinity or whatever.......is just so much more mysterious, awesome, magical, astonishing, incomprehensible, mind-shattering than anything humankind has conceived of."

There's God talking - right there.

It's all good!

This forum is my safe place. It truly can raise consciousness.
Again I feel the need to radiate gratefulness.:D
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#2
Steve, my friend, and fellow Source fart ;), be sure I don't know anything. But if I'm inclined to believe anything as most likely, it's what these two ladies (and a few other NDErs) have accessed in terms of knowledge while in, or beyond, the light. (That also doesn't mean I don't have continual doubts, questions, insecurities, confusion, etc. etc.)

It may be that these paragraphs above are ultimately correct, at some level we are God, I can agree, but after that is where I part with the ladies as the passages stand. We're not there yet. I don't think that when we die we go back to being perfect, or as perfect as the light can be ( I don't think God is perfect, just a hell of a lot closer to perfection than we are). There are many reports from the afterlife that we review our lives in detail and spend a great deal of effort and time(if time exists elsewhere) planning our next life. Why would we need to do that if we were already 'the light'?

Maybe we are, but we get separated from God while we are growing? But what use would that be if the ultimate aim is to reach a level that we're already at? I don't think we can begin to understand the full picture, though maybe we are allowed to enter the light for a while after we pass, so that a loving God and his 'sons and daughters' can reacquaint themselves before once again becoming separated?

I think that we have a serious job to do for God, I don't think it's just a fun park. The lesson is that it can be a fun park if we make the right choices, but until we reach much higher levels of consciousness, we remain separate from the light most of the time.
If I understand correctly and try to explain what that second lady came up with, to answer your questions, we first have to clear up what "we" are. In her view, first, human animals, like most/all things and beings in the universe, are creations in Source's mind. The thing is that, from what she "learned" (re-accessed in her NDE as she became again the light being she had previously been, or remained in another dimension if you will, a stage most NDErs don't get to as what they get are initial stages where they are unconsiously manifesting imagery in accordance with their still-human beliefs and also being guided in their scenarios by other light beings, and then also - I'm just following her story, whether you want to believe it or not - merged with Source itself and accessed all its knowledge (though she did not remember all of it coming back but tried to retain as much as she could), "we", human beings, are actually an amalgam of light beings - which are Source-parts - which have incarnated into these human animals, which are Source thoughts. When we die, we go back to the "perfect" light beings we always were - who don't have to learn unconditional love because we already are that - and the animal human just dies (remember it's a character in Source's mind, like the characters in your dreams). (By the way, light beings also incarnate into other animals, plants, rocks, whatever, to get the experience of what those beings are.)

She published her original books almost a decade ago, but her latest one, from which I quoted, just came out, and it's cobbled together from years of newsletters where she responded to questions from people, questions very much like the ones you're asking. I've just perused it and read parts of it so far but I'd recommend it if you're interested in looking to see if it answers questions you may have and may help you find a "fit". It sounds like a good summary and starting point to get what her "knowings" are.

I think her answers to what you have just written would include the fact that we don't get "separated from God" - Source is everything and everywhere. We are light-beings - creations of Source but part of Source itself - who inhabit characters in Source's mind. That funky mixture of a light being and a fear-and-whatever-else-based animal is what creates the pecular human "soul"/personality that we are drawn to experience because it is so funky. :)

My apologies to N. D. if I'm getting anything she's saying wrong. Re: the life review. For those NDErs who experience the life review as a judgement of sorts, even a self-judgement, but supported by unconditional love, they are still in the initial stages of the still-human-in-transition "soul"/personality. From the light being and Source perspective, the life review is to transition from our human perspective to a more objective one to understand and assimilate and put together cohesively everything we've just experienced. I can't attempt to answer your other (good!) questions because I haven't read and assimilated her latest book yet, and don't want to just paraphrase everything she's written, but please note that she has chapters devoted to these topics - the life review, reincarnation (including life planning), evolution - where she answers these (in great detail) and tries to re-adjust the (as she has learned or remembered) faulty "soul concepts" we are still saddled with. For example, someone asks, "If it's true we don't have separate identities, that our personalities were created by Source solely to fulfill its desire to experience its imagined physical universe, why do we need a life review where we take stock of our behavior on earth and determine if we met the goals we set for ourselves pre-birth? Doesn't the very concept of reviewing an individual life imply we really are separate beings?" (p. 191, Answers from the Afterlife). But I'll let you, or others, get the book and read on to see her answer to this and other similar questions if you're interested. :)

---
As an aside, let me say I'm more attracted to "it's all good" views than traditionally religious judgemental ones, but that doesn't mean this material doesn't destabilize me. Temperamentally, I'm very anxious and go through a lot of very severe mental challenges on a regular basis, and it would be a lot more comforting to me to believe in things that are denied in some of Nanci's books, and that I'm not just here to "experience" things on a wild and fun but sometimes very frightening or anguishing ride (apparently, as both Anita and Nanci say, life isn't meant to be hard and suffering, but it takes a lot of work for me to work on my traumatized animal human fear-based instincts and reactions and negative beliefs), but what she and some others have come up with from their NDEs sounds the most plausible to me - and is founded in part by how they explain the process they went through in the afterlife that led them to go a lot deeper into Source, and puts other more "naive" NDEs in perspective (all NDEs are not equal, IMO).
 
#3
Hi Ian

Thanks for changing threads, I was worried that we'd totally go off topic, which it looks like we might have done.

If at any time while reading this reply you get frustrated or annoyed or in any way feel unsettled by what I'm saying, just return to this >
To be frank, when I defer to Manjit, I really do. I'm really saying I haven't a bloody clue what happens to us. :)

I have seen Nancy Dennison's NDE video(s)? I have to say that I don't get warm feeling from her. Would I be right in guessing that maybe we're all the same, all the NDE videos we watch are kind of graded from 'best' to 'worst'. On a scale of 1-10 ND would be like a 5. Wayne Morrison would be a 9 for comparison. For me.

She says she had completed her cycle of many thousands of lifetimes, but volunteered for this one only to become a self confessed 'animal' as a lawyer before her NDE. This doesn't make sense to me. I have my own favourites, but I wouldn't bet too much on what any of them say. I'm content just staying open, and storing them away.

All I know for certain are these 'facts' .I've never experienced an NDE as far as I'm aware, but who knows:
It feels right when I talk about love, unbounded love. I have some sense of what even a real nasty bastard might feel when entering the light, encountering the power of that love.
I get the same joyous feeling at times when I talk about gratitude, when I see true acts of kindness.
When I hear acts of amazing forgiveness.
When I hear bass playing in a song, or just some particular song.
Listening to Anita Moorjani on Facebook, it just felt real. What she was saying made more that logical sense, it went much deeper.

In the last couple of months I've been experiencing something rather unusual. Since my stroke I have had a tendency to laugh or cry at much lower thresholds than I had before. This has definitely improved over time, although I nearly died laughing when some friends and I were talking a couple of months ago. Seriously, something really hit the spot and I couldn't stop laughing until I realised that I couldn't breathe and I might pass out. I listened to the warning signs and forced myself to stop. :eek:

This is different, I have experienced it before on occasion, but in the past six weeks or so I have noticed an increase in both intensity and frequency. I start crying tears of joy when I think of certain things. Rather than being distressing, like the laughing episode eventually became, I enjoy the feeling that accompanies these tears. It is quite unconscious, I can't help myself. When I'm alone I can freely express my joy at being alive. When in company my eyes might start to water, but I don't let it go fully.

I believe I'm doing this whenever I see 'the light' shining, no matter what form this takes. It could be anything, from a cute animal video to the beautiful form of an aeroplane, today when someone was describing their own NDE experience. But basically I think it's when I'm feeling thankful for things, the awe I feel when I start to learn about how incredibly amazing even 'simple' things like plants actually are. The joy of being alive, the miracle that we are, even if the atheists are right, and this life is all that we have - it's amazing!

I'm not trying to say I'm special or anything like that, because for sure I know that I'm not. I lose my rag and swear like most of us do, I definitely have weaknesses. Maybe as we display gratefulness and other virtues, more gifts open up to us. It is one of the few times that I would say I am in contact directly with something more, possibly even god. He is showing me grace in return for my displaying humility and awe at his workmanship.

The light is definitely there, we just have to work hard and occasionally it breaks the surface. I am reminded of how I was drawn to the Ted talk by Elizabeth Gilbert. It talked about poets 'getting things' and how as an author her biggest problem was likely to be the success of her first book. It is my favourite Ted talk. I cry whenever I see it! I am fascinated by how musicians can channel things, that authors can write things down that it seems they couldn't have thought of themselves. The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran - how does a man learn such wisdom? It comes through him, not from him-as he himself describes our children.

Sorry for going off on one Ian. ;) It just seemed more meaningful than me guessing about the afterlife. Hope that you find it interesting, it is to me.

I can say 'It's all good' because I'm getting around to feeling that even the worst case is good. If I'm suffering some well known psychological disorder, unless it endangers anybody, do me a favour and don't tell me! :)I hope Nancy is right, it sounds brilliant! It's 1:15 in the morning now, so I'd better get to sleep. Thank you and Goodnight.
 
#4
Light Beings do not inhabit humans in order to evolve spiritually. Light Beings do not need to evolve because we are Source. We define Source as the highest level possible. What higher status could we possibly attain? Human life offers nothing other than learning what human life is like. (Answers from the Afterlife, 2016, p. 95).
I don't agree with what she's saying here 100%, since it clashes with what many other NDErs and in particular the one I consider the deepest NDEr ever (you know who I'm talking about :D ) has to say on the issue, that part of the purpose of life is to grow in our ability to love and joyously endure hard times. The ultimate example is to reach the level where we are infinitely happy, loving, thankful and forgiving while we're being tortured, kind of like Jesus H. Christ 3.0.

But at the same time, it is absolutely nothing wrong with not doing that. We can go full Hitler and/or Breivik and it's all good nonetheless. Even if we nuke the planet to pieces, the reaction on the other side is going to be "Lookie what they did! ROFL xD" rather than "Oh you were so bad, serious punishment time! >("

There are way beyond septendecillions of physical worlds out there. They all have their unique history, and sometimes in some histories there will be armageddons, there will be centuries or millions of years of dark ages where evil reigns. That's cool, and it's also fun to experience, at least from a meta-perspective!

We're in eternity. What do eternal beings do with themselves? They explore everything about themselves and about reality, put themselves in different beings and characters in different worlds and social scenarios of all kinds and explore everything. Sure, some of us are probably not even interested in this whole reincarnation thing altogether and dance on rainbows all the time in the spirit realm for G64 years on end. Nothing wrong with that either! We all do whatever we want.

If we reasonably assume the afterlife is 100% ultra-rational, how could it be any other way? I would never leave the spirit realm if it in any way, even ultra-slightly, jeopardized my eternal spot there. In fact, I wouldn't be happy to be there in the first place if there was a chance for anyone to lose that guaranteed place of being home in paradise! So what we really need to ask ourselves is how an ultra-rational and ultra-compassionate realm of divine perfection would reason about things.

Being on a mad quest my whole life to reason these things out, I was drawn to Ayahuasca to find out the meaning of (my) life. What did it have to tell me? Literally: "Life is at least an ultra-joke!"

Yeah, we take this world way too seriously. But that's also part of the charm of being here, in many ways, from a meta-perspective. Does it matter when you play with Barbie dolls whether you marry Ken or whether you live as a single party-girl, or whether your Barbie dies young of cancer? Life and this world matters roughly that much to the spirit realm. It's all just role-playing for entertainment anyway. But pretending and/or believing that it matters while we are here is just what we do to immerse ourselves in it, it makes it more fun!

Temperamentally, I'm very anxious and go through a lot of very severe mental challenges on a regular basis, and it would be a lot more comforting to me to believe in things that are denied in some of Nanci's books, and that I'm not just here to "experience" things on a wild and fun but sometimes very frightening or anguishing ride
First of all, living life with mental challenges is 10x times more challenging than mere physical ailments. When people complain about cancer or being amputated or having asthma I just laugh - mental issues are on a whole other level. In fact, not only is it not in the same ballpark, it's not even the same game. I want you to know that you are hardcore for being able to live this life, a real superstar, and if anything I'm just impressed. Living with anxiety is to live life on 'Expert' or even 'Nightmare' mode. Those who doubt this have it easy, for they have not experienced panic attacks or psychosis on a daily basis, or have never had a really bad psychedelic trip straight into a horror-land of pure evil, insanity and existential dread that makes Lovecraftian prose seem like rainbows, kittens and sunshine in comparison, and that lasts for thousands of years.

EDIT: I just have to add this video for illustrative effect


apparently, as both Anita and Nanci say, life isn't meant to be hard and suffering, but it takes a lot of work for me to work on my traumatized animal human fear-based instincts and reactions and negative beliefs
I think it's not meant to be "only" that, but it's definitely part of the equation. Diseases, handicaps and other "bad" things are part of human life. I do think the point of these things is partly to experience them in the very dispassionate sense, but also to overcome them lovingly. "I love this ultra-shitty life!" is the attitude you want to arrive at :D
 
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#5
"Drawing conclusions from NDEs: it's all good or striving for perfection?"

Yes.

It's all good because everything leads to perfection.

Livets Bog vol. 1, s. 28
http://www.martinus.dk/en/ttt/index.php
...
When the individual"s sense perception is so far advanced in its development that he is capable of experiencing as a realistic fact that - everything is very good - by then the revelation of the Eternal Truth is completed, for indeed that experience could not exist without being identical with the actual experience of that same Truth's scientific basic analysis". In other words, the individual no longer lives with the old superstition or idea that something is evil. On the contrary, he experiences and understands that all the so-called evil - in a divine or cosmic understanding - constitutes just as indispensable a factor in promoting an individual's development, or the forming of consciousness, as the so-called good. And the good and the evil are thus considered identical in the divine basic analysis. Of course this does not mean that evil is also pleasant, but rather that, for the sufficiently advanced being, it will be considered just as much a blessing as good, and that these two realities can therefore only be analysed as expressing correspondingly the "unpleasant" good and the "pleasant" good.

Any seeker of Truth who has developed so far as to be able to experience and carry out the above analysis, solely by his own sense perception and without any theoretical knowledge learned from other people, has thus reached the end of the journey with regard to the revelation of the Eternal Truth or the basic analysis of life,...
When starting out, a student of Buddhism usually considers the purpose of the training to be to provide an end to the suffering caused by life's difficulties. But when he reaches a more advanced stage he considers that the purpose of life's difficulties are to help him advance in the training.

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/occasionally-i-post-something-to.html#misc_zen_practice
Shodo Harada Roshi is quoted at Man on Cloud Mountain Segment 4 at enlightenmentward.wordpress.com

That small narrow way in which I had been looking at my enlightenment, my thing to have to do. I have to do this for myself. That is what had been bothering me all along from the very beginning. Through that day on the mountain when I realized that there was no self to be bothered with it. I had been crushing myself and making myself miserable worrying about this problem of my enlightenment and realizing it for myself making my self come to a conclusion that was, in fact, found in the living of every single day. If I did nothing, if I didn’t even worry about my problems things always came to me. And those things that came to me in every single day, to accept those was my training and my way of expressing my enlightened mind. No matter what it was that came to me every day, the next thing that came, the next situation I found myself in, to live that totally as my training was what I had to do. Not to go isolate myself up on a mountain closed off from everyone, turning them all away and worrying about my own small state of mind. That wasn’t the point at all. But to go and be what every day brought to me that was my practice and my expression of my enlightenment. And ever since I realized that my whole life has been completely different. I know there is no problem for myself because there is no one there to feel that there is a problem. Just to take what every day brings and do that with my best, total, whole hearted effort as a person of practice. That was the way to live.
What would be the point of having an experience if it didn't change you?

You have to consider all the evidence and develop a theory that accommodates all of it. People, including NDErs, sometimes take a message from one NDE and assume it is a universal message when it might be just a message for the individual. For example, I saw a video where Moorjani said the message from her NDE was "be true to yourself". She had been so focused on taking care of other people that she ignored herself and it caused the illness that led to her NDE. That message is what she needed, but no one can doubt that there are other people who never worry about others and are only concerned with themselves. When they have an NDE they will get a very different message. Is it a contradiction? No. Different people need different messages. Our understanding of the afterlife is limited and the afterlife we learn about is just one level in an unknown number of levels below the ultimate. How can we expect to understand what is a contradiction and what isn't when we only understand a tiny fraction of what lies beyond the earth life? In particular, it may not be correct to assume that the purpose of incarnation, (growth, experience, etc ...) , is the same for all souls.


http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/06/what-near-death-experiencers-have-to.html

Arthur Yensen:
Between lives, with the great knowledge of our oversouls, we choose the next life we are going to live and how much karma we are going to meet and settle. For example, if you abused animals, or people, in one life your oversoul would probably cause you to reincarnate into a situation where you'd get abused to make you realize the misery you've caused others.

Betty Bethards:
As you are ready, and as you choose, you will be shown your past lives. If you do not believe in reincarnation it may take a long time before you are able to deal with this. Eventually, you must learn to understand yourself in a continuity of growth over many lifetimes. You must recognize all the strengths you have built and all the karmic ties you have created which must be dissolved.

David Oakford:
The being told me that each planet has a theme for learning and that any of them can be chosen by a soul when we are between physical lives.​

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/09/evidence-that-god-exists-people-who.html

George Rodonaia
Anyone who has had such an experience of God, who has felt such a profound sense of connection with reality, knows that there is only one truly significant work to do in life, and that is love; to love nature, to love people, to love animals, to love creation itself, just because it is. To serve God's creation with a warm and loving hand of generosity and compassion - that is the only meaningful existence.

Arthur Yensen
salvation is simple. All one has to do is to love so unselfishly that his soul-vibrations will rise high enough to fit him into heaven.​


Experience produces growth. You don't have to do anything special it works automatically.
 
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Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#6
This is different, I have experienced it before on occasion, but in the past six weeks or so I have noticed an increase in both intensity and frequency. I start crying tears of joy when I think of certain things. Rather than being distressing, like the laughing episode eventually became, I enjoy the feeling that accompanies these tears. It is quite unconscious, I can't help myself. When I'm alone I can freely express my joy at being alive. When in company my eyes might start to water, but I don't let it go fully.

I believe I'm doing this whenever I see 'the light' shining, no matter what form this takes. It could be anything, from a cute animal video to the beautiful form of an aeroplane, today when someone was describing their own NDE experience. But basically I think it's when I'm feeling thankful for things, the awe I feel when I start to learn about how incredibly amazing even 'simple' things like plants actually are. The joy of being alive, the miracle that we are, even if the atheists are right, and this life is all that we have - it's amazing!
Thanks for sharing that, Steve. That's awesome.
I don't agree with what she's saying here 100%, since it clashes with what many other NDErs and in particular the one I consider the deepest NDEr ever (you know who I'm talking about :D ) has to say on the issue, that part of the purpose of life is to grow in our ability to love and joyously endure hard times. The ultimate example is to reach the level where we are infinitely happy, loving, thankful and forgiving while we're being tortured, kind of like Jesus H. Christ 3.0.
Yeah, that might well be. I hope you're right here, and that in this respect she's wrong. (It also would make it more easy to fit, rather than to dismiss, a whole bunch of NDE- and other-derived information.)

And thanks for the compassionate words, Hjortron.
I do think the point of these things is partly to experience them in the very dispassionate sense, but also to overcome them lovingly. "I love this ultra-shitty life!" is the attitude you want to arrive at :D
That definitely sounds like a challenge! :) I'll try and work at it...
 
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#7
First of all, living life with mental challenges is 10x times more challenging than mere physical ailments. When people complain about cancer or being amputated or having asthma I just laugh - mental issues are on a whole other level.
I disagree with this. Don't you think that one affects the other? Are you saying that having cancer or asthma or anything physical won't potentially bring massive anxieties? I can only speak for myself, but my physical disabilities were /are secondary to the mental challenges that the stroke brought with it. I know that one of my friends who had skin cancer still worries daily that it might come back. Pain is a head game - everything is a head game. So l don't see how you can separate them, saying one is 'more challenging than the other'.
 
#8
George Rodonaia
Anyone who has had such an experience of God, who has felt such a profound sense of connection with reality, knows that there is only one truly significant work to do in life, and that is love; to love nature, to love people, to love animals, to love creation itself, just because it is. To serve God's creation with a warm and loving hand of generosity and compassion - that is the only meaningful existence.
(I'll do an 'Alex' on this.):)
Nice.
 
#9
You have to consider all the evidence and develop a theory that accommodates all of it. People, including NDErs, sometimes take a message from one NDE and assume it is a universal message when it might be just a message for the individual. For example, I saw a video where Moorjani said the message from her NDE was "be true to yourself". She had been so focused on taking care of other people that she ignored herself and it caused the illness that led to her NDE. That message is what she needed, but no one can doubt that there are other people who never worry about others and are only concerned with themselves. When they have an NDE they will get a very different message. Is it a contradiction? No. Different people need different messages. Our understanding of the afterlife is limited and the afterlife we learn about is just one level in an unknown number of levels below the ultimate. How can we expect to understand what is a contradiction and what isn't when we only understand a tiny fraction of what lies beyond the earth life? In particular, it may not be correct to assume that the purpose of incarnation, (growth, experience, etc ...) , is the same for all souls.
I agree with this. It is enough for me, to read what all the NDErs say but still not invest emotionally too much with any one. Yet still see the divine in those that shine for me. Take what you feel is right for you and let the rest go. Maybe it's my sceptical nature, maybe my intuition, I don't know. I get the sense that a lot of this doesn't matter, the details aren't what matters in this case. I think that I should, we should, trust our own individual instincts on this. The path to seeing that it's largely about others has to be tread alone, it is not an easy path.
 
#11
As this thread is largely about NDEs, I hope nobody minds me writing this here.

I'm nearly finished writing a second book which is about my spiritual journey post stroke. I wanted to dedicate a whole chapter to NDEs, copying some from the NDERF website as well as the book 'The Self Does Not Die'. As I am starting to finalise it I thought that I'd better get clearance to do so from the various people involved. Just in case it is a blockbusting success! ;)

Smithy is ok with it, but it's not down to him as he is only part author, so I'm waiting for permission from others. Jeffrey and Jody Long have sadly not time to communicate with individual NDErs to seek their permission. So it looks like I'll have to change my plans! It would have been perfect if I could have just copied and pasted a few random NDEs from the many on the website. I'm certain that most of the NDErs would have no objection, it's frustrating. Most of them would encourage their experience to be as widely read as possible.

So I'm open to ideas on how to overcome this challenge. The vast majority of the book will be in my own words, so it's not as if I'm ripping people off. It's not about money. I'm still our of pocket from my first book, I've sold a couple of hundred, mainly to friends and ex colleagues. I see this one perhaps doing better, but even if the same group of mainly sceptical people read this one, while knowing me personally, that would be a success in my book. It's really an attempt to get people opening their minds to things. At the same time my journey has been quite remarkable, I think it's definitely been worth writing about. Even if only a tiny percentage of those who do read it are somehow tempted into further investigation.

Any suggestions?
 
#12
I don't agree with what she's saying here 100%, since it clashes with what many other NDErs and in particular the one I consider the deepest NDEr ever (you know who I'm talking about :D ) has to say on the issue, that part of the purpose of life is to grow in our ability to love and joyously endure hard times. The ultimate example is to reach the level where we are infinitely happy, loving, thankful and forgiving while we're being tortured, kind of like Jesus H. Christ 3.0.

But at the same time, it is absolutely nothing wrong with not doing that. We can go full Hitler and/or Breivik and it's all good nonetheless. Even if we nuke the planet to pieces, the reaction on the other side is going to be "Lookie what they did! ROFL xD" rather than "Oh you were so bad, serious punishment time! >("

There are way beyond septendecillions of physical worlds out there. They all have their unique history, and sometimes in some histories there will be armageddons, there will be centuries or millions of years of dark ages where evil reigns. That's cool, and it's also fun to experience, at least from a meta-perspective!

We're in eternity. What do eternal beings do with themselves? They explore everything about themselves and about reality, put themselves in different beings and characters in different worlds and social scenarios of all kinds and explore everything. Sure, some of us are probably not even interested in this whole reincarnation thing altogether and dance on rainbows all the time in the spirit realm for G64 years on end. Nothing wrong with that either! We all do whatever we want.

If we reasonably assume the afterlife is 100% ultra-rational, how could it be any other way? I would never leave the spirit realm if it in any way, even ultra-slightly, jeopardized my eternal spot there. In fact, I wouldn't be happy to be there in the first place if there was a chance for anyone to lose that guaranteed place of being home in paradise! So what we really need to ask ourselves is how an ultra-rational and ultra-compassionate realm of divine perfection would reason about things.

Being on a mad quest my whole life to reason these things out, I was drawn to Ayahuasca to find out the meaning of (my) life. What did it have to tell me? Literally: "Life is at least an ultra-joke!"

Yeah, we take this world way too seriously. But that's also part of the charm of being here, in many ways, from a meta-perspective. Does it matter when you play with Barbie dolls whether you marry Ken or whether you live as a single party-girl, or whether your Barbie dies young of cancer? Life and this world matters roughly that much to the spirit realm. It's all just role-playing for entertainment anyway. But pretending and/or believing that it matters while we are here is just what we do to immerse ourselves in it, it makes it more fun!



First of all, living life with mental challenges is 10x times more challenging than mere physical ailments. When people complain about cancer or being amputated or having asthma I just laugh - mental issues are on a whole other level. In fact, not only is it not in the same ballpark, it's not even the same game. I want you to know that you are hardcore for being able to live this life, a real superstar, and if anything I'm just impressed. Living with anxiety is to live life on 'Expert' or even 'Nightmare' mode. Those who doubt this have it easy, for they have not experienced panic attacks or psychosis on a daily basis, or have never had a really bad psychedelic trip straight into a horror-land of pure evil, insanity and existential dread that makes Lovecraftian prose seem like rainbows, kittens and sunshine in comparison, and that lasts for thousands of years.

EDIT: I just have to add this video for illustrative effect




I think it's not meant to be "only" that, but it's definitely part of the equation. Diseases, handicaps and other "bad" things are part of human life. I do think the point of these things is partly to experience them in the very dispassionate sense, but also to overcome them lovingly. "I love this ultra-shitty life!" is the attitude you want to arrive at :D
Welcome back, Hjortron, haven't seen you here for a LONG while! Hope you won't leave us again this time... :D
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#14
Nanci L. Danison:
Light Beings do not inhabit humans in order to evolve spiritually. Light Beings do not need to evolve because we are Source. We define Source as the highest level possible. What higher status could we possibly attain? Human life offers nothing other than learning what human life is like. (Answers from the Afterlife, 2016, p. 95).
For anyone interested, here's a recent (September) interview talking about her new book:
http://www.outerlimitsradio.com/danison/
Some insights from “Answers From The Afterlife” include:

• We do not enter into human life to evolve, to learn how to love, or to learn how to be more spiritual. We souls are already pieces of Source/God’s own self-awareness and cannot get more evolved, loving, or spiritual than while in our spiritual state.

• We are souls that have full freedom of choice about whether to incarnate. We choose a theme or topic of interest as our guiding principle for incarnations and select physical lives that will allow us to experience different aspects of that theme or topic.

• What we did or didn’t do in a previous lifetime has no bearing at all on reincarnation. We do not have to earn heaven; we automatically awaken there when our physical host’s life ends.

“Answers From The Afterlife” also sheds new light on many traditional spiritual beliefs, whether ghosts are real, after-death communications without a medium, soulmates, pets in the afterlife, life in the afterlife, and more.
One interesting bit in the interview, mentioned in previous books, is that it seemed that Source was not the only "Being" - there were possibly other Sources, or that Source is part of a greater Source. She did not get all of this information and/or could not comprehend it.
 
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#15
The above post contradicts people like Tom Campbell and Juergen Ziewe. It would be interesting to get their take on what she says. Not too bothered about it, but Tom & Jurgen have spent lots of time out of body, I wonder if some NDErs like Nanci somehow go deeper than them? I feel that Jurgen gets quite frustrated when I've 'bigged up' other NDErs, either it's ego or he genuinely feels that he has a bigger picture and has been to higher planes like the NDEs often talk about.

I have heard Tom talk about NDEs but once again, he didn't seem that impressed. I must look out for more, I'll do that tomorrow.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#17
The above post contradicts people like Tom Campbell and Juergen Ziewe. It would be interesting to get their take on what she says. Not too bothered about it, but Tom & Jurgen have spent lots of time out of body, I wonder if some NDErs like Nanci somehow go deeper than them? I feel that Jurgen gets quite frustrated when I've 'bigged up' other NDErs, either it's ego or he genuinely feels that he has a bigger picture and has been to higher planes like the NDEs often talk about.

I have heard Tom talk about NDEs but once again, he didn't seem that impressed. I must look out for more, I'll do that tomorrow.
I don't know what's true or not, Steve, but just in terms of what Nanci says, she learned there are no such things as different planes and dimensions, she doesn't believe souls connect with people through mediums (although they do connect with people directly in subtle ways - ADCs) and that she believes that psychics have indeed psychic powers but do not communicate with the deceased (she admits she just doesn't know how they get their information), and that all of what is generated out of the lore of past-life regression therapy is human-invented stuff, like a lot of these things. Putting aside whether, or to what degree, Nanci's NDE-derived knowledge is accurate or not, I am personally inclined first to go to NDErs (and data gleaned from memories of past lives, the Stevenson type stuff) and then filter everything else through there. More of my 1 cent. :)
 
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#18
I couldn't find that much about NDEs by either Tom or Jurgen. I guess we each have our ideas, no matter how informed we may appear to be, we all seem to have them. All I can do, is live my life according to what I think is right, if that takes me in the wrong direction, maybe I'll get another pack of coins to try again?


 
#19
I disagree with this. Don't you think that one affects the other? Are you saying that having cancer or asthma or anything physical won't potentially bring massive anxieties? I can only speak for myself, but my physical disabilities were /are secondary to the mental challenges that the stroke brought with it. I know that one of my friends who had skin cancer still worries daily that it might come back. Pain is a head game - everything is a head game. So l don't see how you can separate them, saying one is 'more challenging than the other'.
I agree with you that to the extent that cancer and other physical suffering brings about anxieties and other mental suffering (like depression) it is indeed horrible, but that just reinforces the point I was making rather than disproving it.

Welcome back, Hjortron, haven't seen you here for a LONG while! Hope you won't leave us again this time... :D
Thanks a lot! <3
 
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