Earthbound spirits, not going into the light and NDEs

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#1
Mediumship and other sources* frequently talk of earthbound spirits, spirits that either aren't aware that they are dead or that there are higher spheres, or are unable or do not want to leave this sphere. They "do not want to go into the light". It's often reported that these spirits may attach themselves to incarnate humans or possess them.

(*Those sources can include NDEs, like George Ritchie's, where he is made to witness this "aspect of reality".)

I'm not sure if I buy into this or not. But regardless, a question I have (which partly explains why I'm hesitant to buy into it) is: if that's true, why aren't there NDEs where the person sees the light and refuses to go near it or into it? Maybe there are, and if so I'd love to hear about them. Are there NDEs where the person reported seeing the light and refused to go into it, for example becoming aware that this means "death" (no coming back)?
 
#2
I wish I could say something here that would help to answer your question, Ian but I'm struggling to think of a case where the person has sort of turned down the chance to go into the light. The "magnetic" quality of this light seems to be overwhelming and irresistible for most people. I vaguely remember someone recounting an experience like that but until I can bring it to mind it's not much use, sorry.
 
#3
The "magnetic" quality of this light seems to be overwhelming and irresistible for most people.
The funny thing is, there was an NDE account I came across (sorry, can't remember the source) where someone left their body, and visited a home nearby where a woman was just giving birth. I think the baby did not survive. However, the NDEer said he felt an almost irresistible urge to press his face into the back of the baby's head so that he would be looking through its eyes. An unusual account to be sure, but it seemed to suggest that there may be strong magnetic-like pulls to things other than 'the light'.
 
#5
There are plenty where there is a point a person is allegedly told not to go beyond as this would mark their physical death. Is that analogous?
I'm not sure but it raises a thought. Supposedly so-called earthbound spirits are so engrossed in their own thoughts, as well as clinging to some version of an earthly reality that they would be unable to hear any such instructions, whether they were told to stay or to move on might be unimportant, it simply would not be heard.
 
#6
The funny thing is, there was an NDE account I came across (sorry, can't remember the source) where someone left their body, and visited a home nearby where a woman was just giving birth. I think the baby did not survive. However, the NDEer said he felt an almost irresistible urge to press his face into the back of the baby's head so that he would be looking through its eyes. An unusual account to be sure, but it seemed to suggest that there may be strong magnetic-like pulls to things other than 'the light'.
Yes that vase was a Mr William Martin, very interesting out of body experience.
 
#8
I'm not sure but it raises a thought. Supposedly so-called earthbound spirits are so engrossed in their own thoughts, as well as clinging to some version of an earthly reality that they would be unable to hear any such instructions, whether they were told to stay or to move on might be unimportant, it simply would not be heard.
I'd say there is a lot of ADC communication that would support your view.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#11
The "magnetic" quality of this light seems to be overwhelming and irresistible for most people.
Thanks Tim. What you're describing is related to my questioning about this. I may have run across an NDE where somone is afraid to go near the light or hesistant, but if I did I can't remember it. I'm bringing this up because I was talking to someone who was convinced someone she knew had been possessed by an earthbound spirit, which brought to mind the stuff I've heard and read about this - but then that question about NDEs came to mind. To me, I see a potential point of contradiction there between NDE data and other survival data.
 
#13
if that's true, why aren't there NDEs where the person sees the light and refuses to go near it or into it? Maybe there are, and if so I'd love to hear about them. Are there NDEs where the person reported seeing the light and refused to go into it, for example becoming aware that this means "death" (no coming back)?
I recall reading a NDE where the guy was a Christian pastor and when he died he saw his body and was very concerned about it. An angel came to take him away and he saw the tunnel from the outside and saw souls going up it, but the angel said he was not allowed to go that way. He was taken before the throne of God and was still very concerned with his life. He began begging and pleading with God for his life and wanted very much to go back. God sat there patiently listening. When he was finally done begging, God's demeanor became fearsome and he had some harsh words for him saying that he only cared for himself and all his 30 years of Christian ministry was only for himself. Then his request was granted and he was sent back. It scared the hell out of him and he changed his life for the better.

Not quite the same as what you're asking for, but I thought it was interesting that he wasn't allowed to go through the tunnel and saw it from the outside... So I guess because of his selfish state of mind he was unable to see the light.

I'm pretty sure the light is as good as it's cracked up to be, but the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if maybe this isn't going on?
 
#14
I was talking to someone who was convinced someone she knew had been possessed by an earthbound spirit, which brought to mind the stuff I've heard and read about this - but then that question about NDEs came to mind. To me, I see a potential point of contradiction there between NDE data and other survival data.
Hi, Ian I would think it would be very difficult to distinguish mental illness of some sort from what we might term "possession," the former would be my explanation for someone's odd behaviour rather than the latter. Personally I trust the prospective NDE data more than other categories of "survival" etc but that's just my opinion and mediumistic evidence, though not by bag...can be very impressive of course.
 
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#15
I think the possession -v- mental illness boils down to evidence. I agree Tim it's hard to determine in many cases the likelihood. The difficulty is that it's not easy to know what the probability of possession is -v- mental illness - even if medicine recognised it as a possibility. There are also, apparently, different degrees of influence from 'overshadowing' or inspiration all the way through to full possession.

There's an interesting book called "thirty years among the dead" which details the research of a state psychiatrist into influence of disparate entities on patients presenting with mental health problems.

I think we have to assess the body of evidence as a whole both NDE and ADC. I don't think we can exclude elements of it and arrive at an accurate picture (if we can at all). Each type of evidence has pros and cons with respect to other types as far as I can see.

There is a lot of concurrence between ADC and NDE evidence, and points on which they seem to diverge. This is true within the body of evidence for each as well. Rather than simply treating such differences as conflicting, my personal view is to try to see if there is a reasonable way to understand the whole picture without rejecting information simply because it doesn't conform to one particular model.
 
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#16
I think the possession -v- mental illness boils down to evidence. I agree Tim it's hard to determine in many cases the likelihood. The difficulty is that it's not easy to know what the probability of possession is -v- mental illness - even if medicine recognised it as a possibility. There are also, apparently, different degrees of influence from 'overshadowing' or inspiration all the way through to full possession.

There's an interesting book called "thirty years among the dead" which details the research of a state psychiatrist into influence of disparate entities on patients presenting with mental health problems.
You know far more than me about these things, Obiwan. The less I say the better. :)
 
#17
You know far more than me about these things, Obiwan. The less I say the better. :)
We're all on a journey Tim. I don't believe it's wrong to comment even on areas we don't know much about - that's how we learn I think. The subject area is far too vast and complex for one person to master the whole thing. It's more practical to focus on specific areas, as long as we don't fall into the trap of thinking it's the whole thing

I love hearing objections or other perspectives and testing to see if I need to modify my own view. I am learning to live with uncertainty . In fact, I'm starting to enjoy it.
 
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#18

There is a part two which I am looking for.. found it:




Obiwan, if there's anything I have never been more sure of, it is that I am not sure of anything anymore.
 
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#19
Personally I trust the prospective NDE data more than other categories of "survival" etc but that's just my opinion and mediumistic evidence, though not by bag...can be very impressive of course.
In my opinion reincarnation, mediumship and apparitions are stronger categories of survival than NDEs. To me it is clear that earthbound spirits do exist, and they can possess living people. For example in the cases of Lurancy Vennum and Frederic Thompson the best explanation is in my opinion possession.

There are lots of reincarnation cases in which the subject remembers how he lived as a discarnate spirit near the location of his death. There are also many cases of mediumship in which sitters have discussed with earthbound spirits. For example cases of Runolfur Runolfsson and Jon Einarsson show clearly how an angry or hostile spirit eventually progresses and becomes more evolved.

William Buhlman describes the conditions in which discarnate spirits live in his latest book, Adventures in the Afterlife. In my opinion there isn't any contradiction between these lines of evidence, and the NDEs. Some spirits go directly into the light, and others may spend long time as earthbound spirits, possess living people or reincarnate before they eventually will go into the light too.
 
#20
In my opinion reincarnation, mediumship and apparitions are stronger categories of survival than NDEs. To me it is clear that earthbound spirits do exist, and they can possess living people. For example in the cases of Lurancy Vennum and Frederic Thompson the best explanation is in my opinion possession.

There are lots of reincarnation cases in which the subject remembers how he lived as a discarnate spirit near the location of his death. There are also many cases of mediumship in which sitters have discussed with earthbound spirits. For example cases of Runolfur Runolfsson and Jon Einarsson show clearly how an angry or hostile spirit eventually progresses and becomes more evolved.

William Buhlman describes the conditions in which discarnate spirits live in his latest book, Adventures in the Afterlife. In my opinion there isn't any contradiction between these lines of evidence, and the NDEs. Some spirits go directly into the light, and others may spend long time as earthbound spirits, possess living people or reincarnate before they eventually will go into the light too.
To be fair think it depends where one has concentrated one's efforts. We can't be everywhere at once. Or can we....:)

I don't think Tim is claiming extensive knowledge of the ADC evidence.

I'd be interested to understand why Tim thinks the NDE evidence is stronger.
 
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