Everything Doesn't Happen for a Reason

[Steve]

This appeared on Facebook and it got me thinking.
What are your thoughts?


http://www.timjlawrence.com/blog/2015/10/19/everything-doesnt-happen-for-a-reason

 

[Silence]

I left it after a quick read with two feelings: 1) the author seems quite angry and 2) the author seems to indicate with 100% certainty that his view of things is correct and other views are "bullshit".

 

[Obiwan]

I left it after a quick read with two feelings: 1) the author seems quite angry and 2) the author seems to indicate with 100% certainty that his view of things is correct and other views are "bullshit".

Quelle surprise.

 

[oleo]

I think it is very hard not to say something that sounds trite or foolish, when you're trying to console someone in pain.
There really are no words.
I also used to tell my late wife that our whole relationship had the " stench of destiny". Half jokingingly.

 

[Steve]

I also used to tell my late wife that our whole relationship had the " stench of destiny". Half jokingingly.

This was an interesting statement. Do you know it was half jokingly when looking back or do you consider it possibly your mind playing tricks? I realise that this is very real for you, so if you don't want to discuss it, that's more than fine.

 

[Steve]

I left it after a quick read with two feelings: 1) the author seems quite angry and 2) the author seems to indicate with 100% certainty that his view of things is correct and other views are "bullshit".

If you listen to the recording I think the 'angry' point seems to be right. There is a lot I could write about this podcast, as much about him than what he talks about. A friend of mine liked the post, which surprised me, as she is very with it spiritually. A few women were saying things like " I really endorse this post" and Thanks so much etc, I felt like saying "Hey, wait a minute" in many places.

 

[Baccarat]

I left it after a quick read with two feelings: 1) the author seems quite angry and 2) the author seems to indicate with 100% certainty that his view of things is correct and other views are "bullshit".

I skimmed the article and that's why I got. But to be fair I'll read the whole thing for context

 

[oleo]

The stench referred to the the fact that destiny suggests circumstances beyond one's control.
A few months after Diane's death, my sister visited a medium. The medium said that Diane was a weak spirit. That I had fulfilled my contract with her. That Diane wanted me to get on with my life. And then she told my sister that she saw me riding off on my motorcycle somewhere.
My sister swears she said nothing about my life long motorcycle addiction.

 

[oleo]

Just so there is no ambiguity.
In my opinion , the only thing that diane lacked . Was seif love.

 

[LetsEat]

This appeared on Facebook and it got me thinking.
What are your thoughts?


http://www.timjlawrence.com/blog/2015/10/19/everything-doesnt-happen-for-a-reason

Words are violence? I think not, what a slippery slope.

 

[Typoz]

This appeared on Facebook and it got me thinking.
What are your thoughts?

http://www.timjlawrence.com/blog/2015/10/19/everything-doesnt-happen-for-a-reason

I wasn't sure of the intention of this thread.

1. It seems some have centred attention on the specific article, its tone and presentation.
   
2. Or on how to relate to others after some devastating occurrence.
   
3. Others on the philosophical or practical issues raised by the question "Does or does not everything happen for a reason?".

I think the second is key to making sense of the article itself.

The third, it is an interesting question, though perhaps too sweeping to include "everything". It would take a great deal of wisdom and compassion as well as perhaps knowledge of events and consequences well beyond our normal capabilities to make the claim in all circumstances. Even then, I'm not sure it would stick.

In my own life I'm reasonably able, with hindsight, to pick out patterns which suggest, yes some things do indeed happen for a reason. As I get older I'm better able, some of the time, to identify them as they are actually happening.

However, I'd be less forthright in raising the topic with other people in the context of something which has taken place in their own life. I'd be unlikely to even consider it at first, it might not be appropriate at all. I can think of some arbitrary, made-up scenarios where it might be apt, but real life seldom conforms to our pre-scripted imagination, interactions with others take on a life of their own.

 

[materialism is bad]

I'm with the author 100%. Anyone who disagrees obviously hasn't experienced real pain for decades on and seeing no end in sight. You experience some minor temporary problems in life and think you've "learned" from the process, you have no idea what true pain is like.

 

[Steve]

I'm with the author 100%. Anyone who disagrees obviously hasn't experienced real pain for decades on and seeing no end in sight. You experience some minor temporary problems in life and think you've "learned" from the process, you have no idea what true pain is like.

You're trying to wind us up. Right?

 

[Bucky]

Unless the chain of causality is interrupted somewhere I dare say that, generally speaking, "everything does happen for a reason".
Surely that expression is often used in contexts where the reason is deeply meaningful to us humans. It can work as a mean to not loose hope and finding meaning in difficult situations, but it's more our interpretation of the circumstances and frankly I can't see how we would be able to objectively assess such statement.

I think the article tries to make a couple of good points but the general tone makes it sound more like a rant than a reflection on the subject of grieving.
If somebody can overcome a tragedy or loss via a "higher plan/reason" I would not go to him and scream "it's bullshit" to his face. And at times the author seems just to do that.
Similarly I wouldn't like someone to shove that option down my throat in a similar situation.

I don't know, in the end the article seems more like a tirade inspired by personal experience. It makes sense but grieving is a very personal process, there's no right or wrong way to do it, imho. From a purely rational p.o.v I can agree with the author's bottom line, though our psyche contemplates a lot more than just linear thinking.

Cheers

Edit: fixed the usual dozen typos

 

[Bucky]

I'm with the author 100%. Anyone who disagrees obviously hasn't experienced real pain for decades on and seeing no end in sight. You experience some minor temporary problems in life and think you've "learned" from the process, you have no idea what true pain is like.

Well, I think you can learn from many difficulties and obstacles in life, but I agree that there can be situations that can crush a human being and there's not much to be learned, unfortunately.
That's why generalizations rarely work.

We are also very different and have different ways to cope with hardships. When someone tells you what worked for him/her it may not work for you.

Cheers

 

[Laird]

Others on the philosophical or practical issues raised by the question "Does or does not everything happen for a reason?".

I'm going to focus on this (your third possible thread topic) from the philosophical perspective: I think we can have significant personal free will, or it can be the case that "everything happens for a reason", but I don't think that the two can be simultaneously true. I suppose though that it could be true that simultaneously we have some sort of minimal or punctuated personal free will and that "everything happens for a reason".

 

[Typoz]

I'm going to focus on this (your third possible thread topic) from the philosophical perspective: I think we can have significant personal free will, or it can be the case that "everything happens for a reason", but I don't think that the two can be simultaneously true. I suppose though that it could be true that simultaneously we have some sort of minimal or punctuated personal free will and that "everything happens for a reason".

I'm not sure why there's a problem with free will here. If I have complete free will and so does someone else, then I don't expect to control everything the other person does. Nor do I expect to control the external world, such as the weather. But I don't see that as unexpected or anything particularly noteworthy.

Perhaps you could give an example of where you might illustrate your idea. Having said that, this will probably be my last post on the subject of free will, as it has been discussed many times before on this forum, and I have already exhausted what I have to say on the matter.

 

[Laird]

I'm not sure why there's a problem with free will here.

Well, let me explain then. "Everything happens for a reason" in this context really means/implies that everything that happens to sentient beings, and in particular, to human beings, is orchestrated by a higher intelligence for some higher purpose (presumably, to teach us a lesson for our spiritual growth). But since so many things that happen to us are determined by the choices that others make (e.g. to break up with us, or to love and respect us, or to commit offences against us), then the inevitable conclusion is that the other-affecting choices that people make are orchestrated by a higher intelligence for a higher purpose, in which case: where is the room for significant personal free will, since the higher intelligence is orchestrating at least our other-affecting choices (and since, arguably, all of our choices ultimately have some affect on others)?

 

[Laird]

P.S. The notion even seems to be incoherent: [being receptive to] learning [per the orchestrated "reasons" of the higher intelligence] seems to be a choice, but per the "everything happens for a reason" logic, our choices, too - including whether or not to learn from our (orchestrated) experiences - are orchestrated, and thus any learning is not our own, but is imparted by the higher intelligence. But if the higher intelligence can already force our choices (to learn) in this way, then why not just teach us directly, rather than through an orchestration in which our choices to learn are merely illusions?

 

[Steve]

I wasn't sure of the intention of this thread.

I thought that the guys blog was interesting in lots of ways, as were the large number of positive responses that it received. It didn't seem as positive to me, so I thought I would see what people here made of it. It was like a rich vein of gold that we could mine here.

You're third point is probably as good a place as any to start mining. I have personal interest in the question: Does Everything Happen for a Reason?

I believe that some things do. Tim (the blogger) was quite determined and even angry at people that might suggest such a thing. It was interesting hearing him as well as having the talk written down. He reminded me of Sam Harris in his cool anger in places.