First comprehensive academic survey of alien contact experience. Please continue to ignore|308|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. Roberta

    Roberta Member

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    Fair enough on Putin.

    A very small amount of Muslims 'hate us'. I don't subscribe to this view of a diverse group of people. And hundreds of Muslims going over is a tiny minority considering millions of Muslims live in the UK. What about the rise of the far-right in the UK for example, does that not bother you? And if you were concerned about Muslim extremism, how would banning them from entering your country, saying 'they hate us' and generally making it okay to discriminate against Muslims going to improve things? At least he picked on the Mexicans and called them rapists too!

    Many of the Parisian shooters were French. Not sure what the EU has to do with it...

    I don't think political correctness really has anything to do with it. Invading countries, killing thousands or even millions of people, destroying communities and infrastructure, that has a bad effect shockingly, and yeah, after all that if you try to force something on a society, it's not going to work out. It's not specific to Muslims, the effect would be the same elsewhere. At least you seem to accept those situations are our fault though.

    National borders are just another way if dividing us as a species - and historically it's pretty clear, the more divided we are, the more we fight, and the worse things get.

    Cheers!

    Robbie
     
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  2. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Michael2 has started a thread on Donald Trump in Other Stuff, so please lets move this discussion over there.

    David
     
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  3. Alan Amsberg

    Alan Amsberg New

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    I’ve decided that I am going to go ahead and talk about a certain idea on this forum. This is hard for me because it is the position that I took when I was mentally ill back in 2009 but I think the truth is that I still “believe” it and while I have tried to find alternative solutions (because it is alarming), I keep coming back to it.

    So, here it is. The solution to the whole UFO thing (and potentially many other things) is that it is part of the Revelation (upper case “R”) or revelation (lower case “r”). What I mean by this is:

    revelation - The slow revealing of God as revealed in paranormal phenomena and as being slowly decoded in the early 21st century. This is occurring because the internet has allowed this information to be collated and analysed (by the Skeptiko podcast and forum (and numerous other podcasts/blogs/websites/forums etc)). This is the “slow burn” version taking 10/20/30/40 years.

    Revelation - The revealing of God like in the lower case “revelation” but also accompanied by events similar to those predicted in the Bible’s Book of Revelation. This is the “big bang” version.

    Which revelation do I believe in? I certainly believe in the lower case “revelation”. This is happening. However, I see evidence for the upper case “Revelation” as well.

    So, alien contact, how does this fit in? Well,
    1. Consider what Mary Rodwell has said about the children in the interview.
    2. Consider this excerpt from David Jacobs’ book The Threat:
      http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vida_alien/thethread/thethread12.htm

      Is Jacob’s excerpt not Apocalyptic? It features natural and man made disasters and a “change” to the world and peace after this change. Is that not what happens in the Book of Revelation? Can we see the “abductees” as people who are being prepared for some role in the Revelation?

    Note that Jacobs is, in my opinion, way too literal. I see the standard abduction narrative as being more symbolic rather than the physical breeding program that Jacobs sees. Perhaps real hybrids exist but also, perhaps, this is just a way of disclosing that we are already hybrids.

    I also see a lot of other evidence for the Revelation: certain NDEs (I estimate that 10-20% of "big" NDEs are Apocalyptic), Biblical prophecy fulfilled and the idea that it is somehow "time" (because of nuclear proliferation, genetic engineering, AI singularity, environmental degradation, over population etc).

    Note that I am not a Bible thumper and I certainly don't believe everything in the Book of Revelation. I came to this via thinking about UFOs actually but that is a long story. Quite funny in a way (but not entirely). While psychotic I actually emailed Nick Pope and phoned Stanton Friedman (his phone number was on his website) and interrupted his dinner. I later emailed and apologised. Both were fine about it and glad that I had received psychiatric help.

    Psychosis is an interesting experience but I can’t say I recommend it.
     
  4. David LoVecchio

    David LoVecchio Member

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    Ok so this is my first post here at the Skeptiko community and forgive me if I am a bit blunt but that's one of the things that originally drew me to the show: a very low tolerance for BS.

    I'm inclined to believe that something very strange is going on in regards to the whole "contact with non-human beings" experiences but I am not so quick to jump on the bandwagon that believes that these beings are aliens from some other planet. What I do believe is that people are having highly strange experiences that definitely deserve serious attention and should be thoroughly investigated. In some cases these experiences appear to be correlated with a physical scar/mark that shows up on the experiencer's body. Jacques Vallee's investigation into the case of "Dr. X" comes to mind (although I am reluctant to mention it because as much as I trust Vallee is not lying or being lied to a definite identity for Dr. X would help to solidify the case).

    When I heard Mary talk about the studies her organization was doing I was initially encouraged. That all changed when she explained that the information they're soliciting doesn't include individual names, addresses, etc. and they are simply trusting people to report honestly.

    No. No. No. No.

    It's not that I have such a strong mistrust of people to be honest but when investigating something as profound as this subject the ability to follow up with witnesses, even visit them in person is critical when it comes to finding out what's going on. People also make mistakes all the time about what we think we see or experience. There is a passage in Vallee's book "Confrontations: A Scientist's Search for Alien Contact" that is entirely relevant here:

    "...do not take anything for granted. This is a field where every statement should be verified, every assumption challenged. How to maintain this critical attitude while keeping an open mind is difficult. Human nature begs for certainty and clear answers." (from Chapter 6. Beacon Probe)
    Back to the interview: my ears perked up at Mary's use of the word "containers" in reference to the bodies we inhabit. I recalled this exact phrase being used in the same context when Linda Moultan Howe had her meeting with Richard Doty, a disinformation specialist who was then working for the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. In that instance Richard Doty made claims that the aliens (he called them E.B.E.s - Extraterrestrial Biological Entities) referred to us as "containers" but didn't elaborate as to what we contained. The fact that this language has a disinformation specialist as its source should raise a red flag.

    Mary also mentioned that some experiencers reported believing that they, and others, had all agreed to be a part of this contact experience previously in some other form of existence prior to being born on Earth. I first came across this idea in the 1995 book "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind: Alien Abduction, UFOs, and the Conference at M.I.T." by C.D.B. Bryan. It should not surprise me to learn that many of the people responding to Mary's survey/inquiries have been exposed to this book. This doesn't mean that the scenario being proposed is not a possibility but shouldn't she account for the idea that as human beings we are capable of unknowingly being influenced by the culture we consume?

    All in all I applaud the fact that she is trying to shed light on an incredibly intriguing phenomena but my applause falters and then halts when it comes to her methodology. I'd love to read about what her group is doing in more detail but when I click on her Facebook link to http://www.acern.com.au/ I get a "Server Not Found" message.
     
  5. Alan Amsberg

    Alan Amsberg New

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    I agree with this. There is a signal to noise ratio problem in all the paranormal and in this "abduction" stuff the problem is even worse. What makes it difficult is that most "experiencers" aren't happy to go public (and who can blame them). So we have to trust investigators who are in touch with the "experiencers". What makes it even worse is that many in this space are, for want of a better word, flaky. I like Mary, I think she is making an important contribution, I might buy her new book when she publishes it but I do think she comes across as "flaky". But, it is hard. Maybe I would be flaky if I was doing what she is doing.

    But, there is something here and it is very strange. For just how strange, read Mike Clelland's book "Owls, Synchronicity and the UFO Abductee" which he just published.
     
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  6. AltrusianGrace

    AltrusianGrace Member

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    Just a side note: I had brief email correspondence with Jacobs last week. I had asked if there were any cases that involved psychedelics. Except for one that involved weed one with cocaine, there were none he could think of. I think the rest of his answer implied that psychedelics would only change a persons perception of what was happening and that this was an entirely physical phenomenon.

    I wasn't trying to argue, minimize or discredit the abduction experience, just wanting a viewpoint from this kind of hard research. I replied with speculation if entheogens might be an advanced organic technology that puts us in contact or could act as a catalyst for this for those who are not born as contactees. I also inquired about his thoughts on DMT and how those trips can sometimes mirror what happens in abduction cases. I havnt received a response, I understand as he's probably busy, but I have a feeling I've been dismissed by a strict materialist.

    Alan, more in relation to your post, first I commend you for being able to speak about your own experience with mental illness- and being able to interject a bit of humor. Second, as I'm researching heavily into the relationship UFOS have with the psychedelic experience, I have revisited the notion that Jesus was a mushroom. There are over 700 visual representations of psilocybe and amanita muscaria shrooms in Judeo-Christian art dating back almost 2000 years. What you state about (R)evelation, I am in agreement that there is a process of revealing happening. I'm just putting this into my little container of research, mind you, and relating it to that. As more and more people take psychedelics, or just enter altered states through whatever means, the more people are being shown the base truths of reality and often in a quantum spiritual context. As for the big R, this I think is a repeating cycle of the earths growth and evolution. Through shamanic experience, many have the realization that the earth itself is alive. As a living being, it must go through the process of growing, maybe it sheds its skin in a way (serpent symbology) and is renewed through cataclysm and again a new Eden. Just some thoughts I was having...
     
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  7. Alex

    Alex New

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    totally get where you're coming from, and agree... particularly as this stuff bleeds over to our understanding of the spiritual... i.e. almost every spiritual tradition has told us we ought just give up on trying to "understand" higher consciousness.

    BUT, we're playing the consensus reality game while we're here. when extremely large, slow moving (then very fast moving) objects are seen by multiple (in some cases hundreds) of unrelated eye witnesses and picked up on radar, we have to take notice. we have to do our best to work it into the game we think we're playing.
     
  8. Alex

    Alex New

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    yeah, defiantly... but at the same time something very different.
     
  9. Alex

    Alex New

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  10. Alex

    Alex New

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    this is a fascinating questions... one that I flap back and forth on over and again -- are we special? are we living in a special time? is we in the middle of a shift in conscienceless?

    one thing I always come back to is that throughout history many (many, many) groups have thought the same... history has proven them all wrong.
     
  11. AltrusianGrace

    AltrusianGrace Member

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    Yeah there's no one single convenient category to put this stuff in. It doesn't help that academia is so compartmentalized and specialized to the point where everyone has blinders on and everyone thinks it only relates to their specific field.
     
  12. Alex

    Alex New

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    welcome David. ok, tolerance level set to low :)


    right... we're all nodding our heads. but wait a minute, what if that's the main freak'n point! WFT is going on when we can live in a highly advanced society and completely ignore that fact that this kind of strangeness is occurring. factor in the well-documented gov dis/misinformation campaign spanning 75 years and you have a pretty scary and bizarre situation.

    agreed. I've contacted the folks from FREE in order to get a lot of the questions you've raised answered. I know they are scrambling and resource strapped, but their inability to build and maintain a decent website is pretty idiotic.
     
  13. Tater Tot

    Tater Tot Member

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    Hello all,

    I am new to the forum, but a avid Skeptiko listener.

    I am someone who has had experiences with some other kind of intelligence via consciousness, as well as a few “nuts and bolts” experiences (which is where it all started) and after listening to this episode about "UFO Experiencers” I thought that now would be a good time to share my story because I believe the folks on this forum will find it interesting.

    A little about me prior to this event. I was pretty much an Atheist/Materialist leaning Agnostic who was heavily opposed to organized religion and put all my trust into science. Although I wasn’t completely closed down to the paranormal, I just didn’t give it any mind. As a result, when I had my experience It took me a long time to integrate it into my worldview and I had to go through as much of a scientific process as I could (I’m a musician not a scientist) to accept and validate it. This process is one of the main reasons I want share my story, so people see this phenomenon from a different angle, learn how this possibly could be studied, and see how someone like me now takes the idea of consciousness and spirituality seriously.


    Im going to apologize about the length right off the bat, the whole thing is a little long and Im going to post it in 3 sections (4 including this one). I am very thorough when telling any story, especially one of this nature, so thats why its a little lengthy.

    So section #1 is going to be about the “nuts and bolts” experience and what inadvertently led me to the the consciousness experience.

    Section #2 is going to be about the consciousness experience and the process I went through to investigate and validate it for myself.

    Section #3 is my proposal I wrote up discussing possible ways that we could study it scientifically. A way in which ordinary people can participate and replicate.


    Finally I want to make sure it is known that I am not doing this for attention in any way. Nor am I claiming to be the guy who can prove ET Contact. All I’m trying to do is share my experience partially because its therapeutic, it helps me learn, and there is a real mystery in the subject and should not be laughed off any more. Real people are being seriously emotionally effected by this and its irresponsible of society to treat them so disrespectfully. It needs to be studied!!

    SO thank you all again for taking the time to read. Skeptiko has been true help for me during this whole process. I’ve listened to every episode and it has helped me accept that I’m not crazy and realize its ok for me to accept my experience and share it with other people. Alex you have truly helped me in ways I can’t express. Thank you so much. Keep doing what you do.

    :)
     
  14. Tater Tot

    Tater Tot Member

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    Section #1

    The following is the beginning of my experiences with ufo’s. This is before I heard about CE5 and tried it out. These two experiences is what enabled me to actually take it seriously once I came across it.

    it started with the disclosure project and the fact that large number of government officials coming out with they’re stories, this grabbed my attention. I then read Leslie Kean’s book “UFOs: Pilots, Generals, and other government officials go on the record” which really made me realize that the UFO subject wasn’t something that could just be written off. Although I wasn’t quite onboard with the consciousness aspect of it yet, I thought the “nuts and bolts” aspect was completely feasible considering all high level people saying there is something to it. The more I researched the more my desire to “see” one increased. I just wanted some validation. Even though I completely I found it inconceivable that every single one of these people were all lying and in on some elaborate hoax, I still needed to see it with my own eyes. Boy.. was I about to get what I asked for.

    The first encounter occurred while driving down I80 E in central/eastern Ohio at about 3 am. My wife (girlfriend at the time) and I were driving back to Pennsylvania from Chicago for fishing season. I remember that I thought to myself how cool it would be to see a UFO right now, it was then we noticed something hovering very low on the side of the highway up ahead. Both of us said “what is that?” and kept our eye on it as we approached. It was so close to the ground, I would say it was two highway street lamps stacked on top of each other and it was a pretty big craft. We drove right underneath and I looked right up at it, it was a big triangle with white blinking lights on each of the three corners and a “swimming” red light right in the middle, the exact same kind reported in the Belgium wave during the 80’s, the ones that the Belgium Air Force scrambled jets to try and intercept. I couldn’t do anything but sit and stare until we drove past it, I was in complete shock and I couldn’t even compute it until we were past it and gone. I had just seen a UFO up close and I couldn’t even wrap my head around it, not a light in the sky, a physical craft right in front of me. A few days later I randomly came across a article in the Huffpost talking about “Dudley the Dorito” and attached was three videos from different places across the globe. 1 video was taken in TN about a week after my sighting in Ohio and it was the same friggin thing that I saw, it was just higher in the sky in this video. I then later searched through reports on the Ohio MUFON website to see if I could dig anything up, I came across one report from the same general time, reporting the same craft, and in the same general location. These really put into perspective how real this event was. My worldview had been changed.

    On a side note, My wife (who was driving) won’t really talk about this incident. She usually just says “I was so tired from driving I don’t know what I saw” and leaves it at that. She did at one point say that it looked like a cylinder, which I assume it was what she saw when we were far away from it. The Side view did look cylindrical, it wasn’t until I was right underneath it that I realized its triangular shape.


    Now the 2nd encounter was again both witnessed by me and my wife, except this time she was wide awake and can corroborate the whole encounter. We were driving to a gig out in the suburbs of Chicago and were in a steady rolling traffic, very congested, but moving at about 50 mph. Up ahead I spotted what I thought at the time a black “balloon” floating over and slowly lowering towards the cars. I remember pointing it out to my wife and she was concerned about it floating into traffic, but I told her not to worry because the wind from the speeding cars would blow it back up into the air. This is when things started getting weird. We were approaching this “balloon” and we got about 3 or 4 cars back from it, I was watching it get closer to the roof of a car and expecting it to blow away and do 100 little flips at any moment, but it didn’t. It completely stopped above the car and started tailing it just inches above its roof. I mean it kept the EXACT speed of the car (50mph)! It continued to do so just for a few seconds then it proceeded to rise in a straight line (while keeping speed) above the car, then it moved to the right (in a straight line) above the next car over and lowered back down inches above its roof, tailed it for a few seconds the rose straight back up into the air. It then slowed its speed and I drove right underneath it and looked right up at it. It wasn’t a balloon at all, it was just a solid black ball almost the size of a basketball. There wasn’t any propellers, no holes on the sides, no fins, no nothing. It was solid circular object and aerodynamically not possible , at least as far as I know. I didn’t even process the reality of this until my wife started screaming “WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT!?” and the fear in her eyes made me realize that she saw it too. I had no idea what to say to her, nor did I know what to say to myself. The whole experience was like I was locked and time slowed down, I didn’t even realize it happened until it was over and the thing was gone.


    Afterwords we did some digging and found some videos on youtube about a new crop of surveillance drones that the Japanese Government just released at the time. They were the first circular flying devices out there ( I believe) and they move almost exactly like the black ball did. Only difference is this device has a wire frame, fins, and a propeller. What I saw did not, I am confident that this absolutely wasn’t it. But, it is the best representation of how this thing moved.

    Here is the video link:

    Next we called the cops. But they basically got mad, yelled at me, and told me it was a balloon.

    Finally I reported it to Mufon and I did a phone interview with an investigator. I described it exactly as I typed it above and specifically told him that it wasn’t a balloon, but he emailed me and insisted it was. So I basically wrote him back telling him that he wasted my time and thanks for nothing.

    My frustration got me digging more and eventually I came across CE5.
     
  15. Tater Tot

    Tater Tot Member

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    Section #2


    My first CE5 (Close Encounters of the 5th Kind) experience(s)/experiment.

    The following is my first CE5 experience(s)/experiment. I grouped all of these little events into one big event because they all tie together. It took close to 6 or so months for my “experiment” to be completed.

    It all started with the movie “Sirius”, I had recently had two ufo encounters with physical craft up close and personal, and I learned about this new ufo movie that was about to be released and streamed through an internet service called Yerka. I thought in my mind " Its staring the same man who organized the Disclosure Project so this has to be legit”, so I decided to pay the small fee to stream it online and watch it. I thought the movie was great and informative, but I was a bit skeptical about this “weird” part about contacting ET’s using your mind. " What the heck was that all about?”, "What kind of crazy stuff is this?” , “What are these crazy hippies thinking?”, “Why would anybody believe this stuff?”, these were all questions going through my mind. I’m not a believer of organized religion and at the time I felt like I was watching some weird religious cult type of thing, but for what ever reason it intrigued me, especially when I figured out that you can try this thing called CE5 on your own, for free (this made me take it a little more seriously, I don’t trust paranormal claims with a price tag).

    After watching some example videos and researching the protocols on siriusdisclosure.com, I decided to give it a try (It took me some time to convince myself, because I felt like I was doing some cuckoo stuff that I needed to do in hiding so none of my friends and family would label me as crazy). Since I was living in Chicago I decided to try it out in the living room of my apartment away from the commotion of the city. For whatever reason the videos of the flashbulbs (a random flash of light, like a camera flash, that doesn’t have a source) were intriguing and I thought to myself “ I can get one on video”, so I decided to take a cellphone camera and point it at a plain non reflective wall, with nothing on it that could possibly produce a flash of any kind. I also did it at night time, closed all the blinds,turned off all the lights, and did it while no one else was in my apartment. I found a youtube video of one of Dr. Greer’s meditations and decided to use it, I started and unfortunately didn’t make it through because my iPad had ran out of batteries (face palm). I got a little frustrated and almost convinced myself that I should just stop this nonsense, but I decided to try again after a little charge. So I tried it again, I had the camera set up and recording and I made it through the whole meditation. I followed the protocols as best as I could, I suspended all disbelief and intended it to work, I “projected” a message/thought asking them to please communicate with me via my camera, I did CTS (coherent though sequencing. Envisioning your location on earth then rising up from that spot into space, like your operating google maps), and made sure they knew that my purpose was for educational reasons and to help me grow. Afterwords I grabbed the camera and walked into my kitchen, turned off all the lights, and watched the video not knowing what to expect. About a minute or so into it a I spotted the exact thing I was looking for, a flashbulb. It jumped out at me and right then and there was my “OH SH**” moment. I couldn’t believe it…it worked!!?? I just stared in disbelief, there was no way that anything in that room could have produced that flash of light, I made 100% sure of it, but yet it was the exact same thing I saw in Dr. Greer’s videos. My mind was spinning “what did I just see??” I quickly calmed down and reminded myself that it could just be a camera glitch and I can’t jump to any conclusions. Despite my skepticism I still needed to know, so I started to dig.

    First I searched for hours on the internet researching a variety of different camera glitches and watching videos, getting familiar with what they all looked like, and could not find anything that matched a single point of light, flashing like a camera flash, randomly one time within a 30 minute video. So next I showed it to some coworkers, who were openminded enough to chat about such subjects, and one of them suggested that I try and be “scientific” about it, see if I can keep replicating it. Being someone who likes and trusts in science I thought that was a great idea, so I decided to try it again. I set up “experiment #2” and I had success again, same process and same results (I got two different flashes, both with different colors and shapes). Astounded, I immediately set up “experiment #3” and again, same process and same results. Now I’m really starting to wonder whats is going on, could this all be real? “experiment #4” was unfortunately unsuccessful because I believe I treated it too much like a game. I had told my brother about what was going on and I think I was more concerned with impressing him, forgetting that If I was indeed communicating with something, I still needed to be respectful.

    I was a little disappointed that #4 didn’t work and wondered if reality was about to kick in and I realize that I’m just fooling myself. Regardless I continued on with “experiment #5” and this one is a very import experience. It was more than successful, it made me realize that there this is way more “weird” than I anticipated. This was the first time I felt what I call “the energy”, which makes it sound kind of silly, but I don’t know how to exactly put it in words, so that will have to do. During meditation I felt the hairs stand straight up on my arm and my sense that something was there with me kicked in pretty heavily. Then a jolt of “energy” shot through me that was so intense that I can’t put it exactly put it into words. It hit me like a taser and had this weird combination of qualities, it was like something orgasmic along with the rush of doing a line of cocaine (yes I tried it once in college) but more intense. It started at my forehead and flowed straight down my neck, belly, and through my groin I have never experienced anything like that ever and It shook me down to my spirit (remember I’m non religious). It just left me sitting there in aw of this emotion and feeling that overtook me, I still can’t fully express what it felt like and I just feel goofy trying to. After coming back to reality from my energy burst, I checked the video and found another flashbulb, except this one was different. There were two lights side by side (my mother thought they looked like eyes) that were neon aqua blue and neon purple and I just had this sinking feeling in my gut that this wasn’t a camera glitch. My mind was skeptically asking questions, but my intuition knew what I just experienced was real, this wasn’t just a misfire of my brain or a camera glitch, I felt it and experienced it, this was no longer a cool little video phenomenon, it was something that effected me on a personal level.

    I continued to talk to different people including a few of my adult students ( I was teaching private guitar lessons at the time), one whom was a phycologist and a very smart man. He was very intrigued by my story and suggested to me that I needed to start treating it like a science experiment (I am not a scientist and I don’t pretend to be) and try to get the flashbulb on multiple cameras. He also told me that I need to have a experiment group and a control group (hence why I labeled them experiments) and see what happens when I record a video with no meditation. So that is exactly what I did. I did a total of 10 “experiments” and 9 “controls” with 3 different cameras (two cell phone, one digital camera, and one camera per experiment/control), 9 of the 10 experiments were successful and were captured on all 3 cameras and the flashbulb showed up n 2 of the 9 controls (*side note* It showed up on the last couple control videos and It was near the end of this whole experience. So I was thinking of the “beings” a lot more and I feel,whatever it is, possibly knew I was thinking about them. (Maybe they were connected to me more than I thought?). They came in a variety of shapes and colors and just two of them had energy bursts associated with them.

    I had a friend help me edit down all my videos and put them into one short video so I could share it. You can view it here:




    Watching the video will give you a glimpse into the experience, but now I want to share what else I did to help validate to myself how strange these videos really where.

    During my experience I consulted some people whom I thought would have some expertise in digital/cellphone videos to see if they could identify the “flashbulb” and explain what it really was.

    First, I took my cellphone into a Verizon Wireless store and spoke with an employee. We were alone in the store and I felt like I could be honest with her, so I told her about CE5 and what I had gotten on my camera. I showed the videos to her and she could not explain it at all, she said she never had seen anything like that happen, didn’t have an explanation, and actually was a little freaked out by the whole thing.

    Second, I took my phone to a cell phone repair shop and pretended like I had no idea what was wrong with my camera. I told the clerk “ I have these weird flashes of light appear on my screen, do you know whats causing it?” and showed him a few of the videos. He had no idea what was causing it and he had never seen anything like that before. He told me that I needed to download a new video app and see if that would fix it, that was all the advice he gave me. I didn’t really bother to tell him any more because I didn’t feel he was the type of person who would be open to this sort of thing and I wanted to just see if he easily recognized it as a camera glitch without any et influence.

    Third, I called a second cellphone repair shop and described the random flashes of light that were appearing in my videos and wondered if they have ever hear of such a thing. The girl on the phone said she “never heard of anything like that” and I said “really?? In all of your experience and probably the hundreds of customer service calls you have received, you never ever heard of a glitch like this?” and she replied “No, never."
    I found this rather strange.

    Fourth, I met a woman during a rehearsal dinner for a family members wedding, and she ended up teaching digital photography and video at a university in Missouri. So naturally I asked her about my videos. I described them to her and showed her still pictures from a few of them ( I didn’t make the youtube video yet and I didn’t have the videos with me) and even she couldn’t explain what was going on. She was very intrigued by them. I asked her “how do you know that I didn’t fake this?” and she replied “trust me, I would know. I can tell that you didn’t”. I then asked about the possibility of it being a glitch. She then explained to me that the flashbulbs occurred in different quadrants of the frame from video to video, which didn’t match the characteristics of a normal glitch. She explained that usually glitches will remain in the exact same spot and continuously do the same thing, not happen randomly once or twice in different locations throughout multiple videos on 3 different cameras.

    Fifth, I joined a Facebook group related to ufo topics and posted my youtube video. Right away one of the group administrators messaged me and very politely told me that he works with CGI and special effects. He wanted to review my video (probably to make sure Im not a hoaxer) and I told him please do, I would love to have your opinion. He messaged me saying that “experiment #5” was really strange. He explained that when you move a video screen shot to screen shot, that the pixels shift and move, which is called “noise”. He then said the flashbulb flashed in and out with in 3 frames and during those frames the pixels didn’t move, it did “something it wasn’t supposed to do.” He seemed perplexed by this and it was enough for me to realize that he couldn’t seem to explain it either. He then went on and commented on my initial post assuring people I wasn’t a hoaxer.

    All this stuff in a nutshell was my first CE5 experience. It took a long time for me to go through all of this and come to grips with the reality of this situation. It forever changed me and started me on to the realization that our consciousness is more than our brain, the “I” that resides in you is the real you and you are them :) We are one, the creator and the created.

    Finally, I wanted say that this whole “flashbulb” experience has been “officially" confirmed for me. I have now, on a few different recent occasions, have seen these things in person with my own eyes, one of them with other people seeing them too. Each time after meditation and an intentional attempted contact. So What it comes down to for me is this. Camera glitches don’t happen outside of the camera, and figments of the imagination don’t appear on cameras.
     
  16. Tater Tot

    Tater Tot Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    24
    Section #3

    Proposal

    Hello all! I’ve been kicking around this idea in my head for a while and I just wanted to type it up and put it out there to see if it would generate any interest. If not then oh well :)

    It was after listening to an episode of the CE5 Minneapolis podcast that I really started thinking of a possible solution (a component of the solution would probably be more accurate) to what I think is a major hurdle for the CE5 community. In the episode, Paul was preparing to give a presentation to his fellow college alumni and it was dedicated to how exactly he was going to convey this information effectively without turning people “off”. I think we all know this is EXTREMELY hard to do and sometimes impossible, especially when the current paradigm totes they’re model of consciousness as absolute fact, when there has been no definitive studies on the origins and complete nature of consciousness (neuroscientists themselves admit that they are far from knowing how “the water is turned to wine”). So how do you successfully engage the general public in a way that will make them realize there is something to this and why is so important that we do so?

    Lets start with why?

    1. So we can help other people take the steps necessary to awaken to the reality of our consciousness and all of the good stuff that comes with it.
    2. So we provide a the proverbial “key” to unlock the “door” to the outside of the “box” that most people are locked into. The current taboo mindset of this topic in general, let alone quadruple taboo on the consciousness aspect, is said “box” and is what prevents allot people from even considering this as a possibility. How can you possibly see the bigger picture if you won’t even walk into the room where it is being displayed?
    1. So we can help other people who have had experiences and have difficulty adjusting to said events. Having your sense of reality flipped over can be very emotional and hard to deal with for some people and could possibly create problems. Being able to see that they are not alone and there is legitimacy to they’re experiences could be a great help to them.
    2. So we can help further the purpose of contact, which in my mind is to help us grow into a more mature species so we can be of the greater community we find ourselves in.
    3. If we do not, our maturation as a species will maintain its course.


    Now on to how?

    The Scientific Method!! The best way we know how to acquire and test knowledge (let it be said that I am not a scientist, nor am I pretending to be, but I do think I/we are capable of engaging in the scientific process). I assume that most people know this already, but the basic way this works is that you create a sound experiment that has the proper controls put in place so we can be 100% sure we are not fooling ourselves. Once we do that, it needs to be replicated from multiple independent sources. Once multiple replications have occurred then reality of what is being tested becomes harder and harder to deny and easier to accept. This is pretty common knowledge.

    Next...
    How exactly do we engage in this scientifically and experimentally? What results do we hope to achieve? And how do we go about achieving them?



    How do we engage?:
    Not to long ago I posted a lengthy story about my first group of experiences and how I went about verifying its legitimacy. I set up an “experiment” to prove to myself I wasn’t being mistaken and forced myself to accept that reality of what I experienced. So far my “experiment” has had a very positive response from people and I propose using it as a model to move forward. I will post the link to my prior report in the comments so you can get a more detailed version of the process and the results. In the meantime here is the general layout (which there is always room for improvement)

    Experimental group:

    1. Respectfully ask our friends to participate and explain the reasoning behind it. Make sure it is known that this is not a dog and pony show and we hope to use this as a tool to teach and awaken minds.
    2. Experiment must be done indoors. This will control for any and all astronomical events, planets, and conventional aircraft that might be mistaken as contact. This will add to the strength of the data.
    3. Point a camera at a bare wall with nothing reflective at all. No mirrors, no shiny objects, etc.
    4. Do it at night and turn out all lights. Except one small light in order to give a little illumination to the room, so you're not looking at just a black screen when reviewing the video. For example, in my videos I always kept a window in the shot and I kept the blinds down and completely closed, that way the blinds would be illuminated by the outside lights without letting anything in that could interfere.
    5. Make sure all electronics are out of the shot to control for any confusions with lights generated from them.
    6. Start recording with your camera and commence the CE5 protocols.
    7. Respectfully ask our friends to communicate with you via the camera so you can document they’re response. In all of my cases it has been via “flashbulbs” of all different shapes, sizes, and colors
    8. Review video in a dark room and on a big screen if possible, and keep you eyes peeled for they’re response. When I reviewed my videos they “jumped” out at me.
    9. Repeat with multiple cameras to control for a “faulty camera”
    10. Try and get multiple videos to establish that its not a one time thing. I did 10.
    11. Collect and report all successes and failures. We don’t want to “cook the books”

    Control Group:
    Repeat the same general process for the control group minus the CE5 protocols. Just set up the camera and record for 10 minutes or so while you step out the room to do something else. This way we can compare the two groups and show that the protocols indeed play a role. Provided that everything is successful.


    Results I would hope to achieve:
    To establish a strong database of scientifically gathered data that cannot be ignored in order to help the general public and scientific community accept there is a reality to this. That this is something that needs to be taken seriously. ( Let it be noted that I am not trying to establish “what it is” or “how it works” just “there is something going on” and “pull your heads out of the sand”)


    How do we go about achieving the goal?:

    I have laid out the process and successfully completed the “experiment” now we need to replicate it. This is what my fellow CE5’ers need to do. REPLICATE. Do this yourself or with your group, especially now that winter is about to set in for some of us, and help create a data base to use as a tool to educate.

    My “experiment" alone has turned a few heads, but not enough. It grabs attention, but its not enough to make it something more than “some crazy thing that happened to my friend or relative” which then gets chalked up to just a ghost story or something of that nature. I can’t help but imagine what it would be like to be able to present not just my “experiment” but a whole series of replications people have done through out the world. Now that would be something that couldn’t just be brushed aside.

    Now this might sound overly ambitious and idealistic, but just imagine if mainstream scientists actually acknowledged this enough to say “there is something going on here” and masses of people started to realize there is more to the big picture than meets the eye. That in my opinion would open the flood gates that would eventually destroy any taboo around this topic and lay the path for real advancement. I KNOW I KNOW I'm probably getting way ahead of myself, but its just a thought and a hope. I entertain the idea, but keep myself grounded.



    Thank you all for taking the time to read. I would appreciate any and all feedback. I accept that my idea may not resonate with some people and may not work at all, but my intuition has been tugging at me and I need to at least put this out there. I feel this could be my small contribution to the next step.

    What ever happens… happens :) Have a good day!!!
     
    Alex and Typoz like this.
  17. David LoVecchio

    David LoVecchio Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    9
    Ok I don't even know where to begin with this. In the interest of not sounding like a complete jerk let me begin by saying thank you for sharing your experiences. Now that that's out of the way let me say I feel like there's some thread highjacking going on here. If I'm not out of line then let me propose that there are websites and groups out there that would be much more in line with the experiment you're proposing.

    Additionally videos on the web don't do much in terms of substantiating credible evidence for most things. The fact that the first image of the walls you record are well lit establishes our expectations that nothing has been added or taken away when the recording begins and the lights are now off. We don't know this though. If you want to remove that particular doubt don't cut from "lights on" to "lights off". Leave the camera rolling when you turn the lights off and provide access to the unedited source footage. Also don't film a wall that has any shelving on it or in the mid-ground for the obvious reason that objects can be placed on these. Immediately after seeing the "flashbulb" turn the lights back on while the camera is still recording. There are also relatively cheap thermal imaging cameras or cell phone extensions that would allow viewers to see the room in the dark to eliminate the possibility of any shenanigans (I believe FLIR makes a case for the iphone that does this). If you can do all of these things it will only help you establish your case and prepare you for jerks like me who have a much higher threshold for evidence than what you've offered. Lastly, if you speak to people who are qualified technicians/professionals whose testimony helps bolster your case get their names, where they work, any specific statements, etc.
     
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  18. Tater Tot

    Tater Tot Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    24

    No Thread Hijacking going on. I corresponded with Alex via Email and he gave me permission to post. I have posted in other groups of this nature (I basically copied and pasted from a previous post) and I garnered no interest. The reason I thought this group might find it interesting is that I try and offer a way they can try it for themselves.

    Additionally I understand your point of view. I know what I look like coming on here and I expect to be viewed as a hoaxer, crackpot, or the seeker of fame.
    Which is fine, its just the way it is and your entitled to your own opinion.

    Again, Im not trying to convince anybody of anything. I'm just putting my story out there for people to do what they will with it.

    As for the lights going "On and Off", I can see where your coming from and Its a valid criticism. All I can say is that these flashes occurred during a 30 minute meditation and I didn't know when the flash occurred until after I reviewed the entire 30 minute video, so I couldn't just turn the lights on after it occurred. That and the fact that I didn't think about turning the lights on and off.

    As for the qualified technicians, 3 of them were just people from Verizon/cellphone repair shops and I never got they're name. Mostly because I wasn't thinking about proving anything to anyone buy myself. The other two I would have to track down. 1 of which I would have to track down through family members, which brings allot of questions, and I am not comfortable sharing this information with certain people because I don't need to be labeled as crazy.. I know thats a cop-out in ways, but I'm human and I don't want to rock that boat.


    Besides.. My main point again is this.. Believe me or not, I want to offer a way that people can try for them selves and improve upon the process that I did. I'm not a scientist and I know there can be improvements, I think other people trying it and replicating it would help.

    Or just call me cuckoo and forget about it... Life will go on :)
     
  19. AltrusianGrace

    AltrusianGrace Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Messages:
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    Home Page:
    Greer is a joke imo. Which is why I dismissed the CE5 stuff or whatever it's called. I am interested in revisiting this "consciousness " based phenomenon based on your posts but I still think Greer is beyond the creep factor. Though it sounds like a great personal experiment for some, I'm not keen on doing the indoor stuff. I would like to know the best resources and protocol for doing this outside. From what I've seen though, don't you have to pay for this privileged information? Or go to a special ranch in the desert? Forgive me if I'm leery about something that seemed like a Warren Jeffs cult at first sight.
     
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  20. David LoVecchio

    David LoVecchio Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
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    9
    I understand and for the record I'm not calling you cuckoo. I appreciate your advocating for other people to try it for themselves and I'd like to suggest that if they do they may want to consider some of the suggestions from earlier.
     
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