Global Warming: Are Sea Levels Rising?

Well suppose Andrew and I and Michael get together and figure a few things out and then present our conclusions - or simply invite those interested to join the discussion. The previous global warming threads seem to have pulled in people with no interest in this forum - just a desire to win the CAGW argument at all costs. Typically that means posting huge numbers of threads rather than actually discussing specific points.

Let me use an analogy. A 'sceptic' of NDE's (say) could GOOGLE a mass of articles and post link after link. Sensible debate soon breaks down - there aren't enough hours in the day to read all the stuff posted - that is one reason forums need a moderator.

I know that Andrew did not come here just to push this issue - he has an interest in the paranormal - which gives him more street cred, if you like :)

I mean, maybe Andrew will convert me - who knows? Nobody gets converted in an n-way debate dominated by links to other material.

David
Seriously, I think you've lost the plot David... as Typoz says, if you wanted to start a private conversation with someone you would just go and do it... the publicity you've given it shows that what you're actually trying to do is censor the discussion in public... it's ridiculous... Alex himself has invited people to discuss AGW on Skeptiko... you need to resign, or Alex needs to relieve you...
 
Seriously, I think you've lost the plot David... as Typoz says, if you wanted to start a private conversation with someone you would just go and do it... the publicity you've given it shows that what you're actually trying to do is censor the discussion in public... it's ridiculous... Alex himself has invited people to discuss AGW on Skeptiko... you need to resign, or Alex needs to relieve you...
pls take a couple day vacation from the forum and contemplate why yr here. email me directly when yr ready to come back.
 
pls take a couple day vacation from the forum and contemplate why yr here. email me directly when yr ready to come back.
Why don't you just get rid of your senile moderator? He's the problem.

You don't know how to hire and fire. That's the other problem.

I'll give him the bad news myself if it makes you too uncomfortable. Just say the word and he'll be gone by sundown. What do you say, boss?

David Bailey, forum member: :)
David Bailey, forum moderator: :(
 
It's OK to express cool-headed, reasonable disagreement with other posters, and with moderation decisions. It's not OK to slag off and insult others, including moderators. I know you can be cool-headed and reasonable, because in your latest incarnation you have (very pleasingly!) been almost entirely that.

Please, criticise moderation policy and decisions, not moderators themselves - but please don't perform that criticism in this thread, which has a different topic. Let's take the personal acrimony out of it, hey? David as a moderator has the forum's best interests at heart. So do you and Max. There's a lot of common ground, man! So, to reiterate: if you dislike a moderation decision, or general moderation policy, then (calmly and rationally) say so, say why, and say what you would prefer, but don't attack the decision-maker, whose aim is the same as yours. As the sports saying goes: play the ball, not the (wo)man.
 
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Why don't you just get rid of your senile moderator? He's the problem.

You don't know how to hire and fire. That's the other problem.

I'll give him the bad news myself if it makes you too uncomfortable. Just say the word and he'll be gone by sundown. What do you say, boss?

David Bailey, forum member: :)
David Bailey, forum moderator: :(
IDK about that. I was never a member of a forum before skeptiko so I'm learning as I go.

A while back I instituted the NAR (no asshole rule). I know the name is jarring, but it's actually based on a very solid business book written by a Stanford professor: The No Asshole Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't

The bottom line is we all gotta make sure we're not being a jerk... at least not too much of a jerk, too much of the time.

So, pls take a couple days off to think about all this and then email me directly when you want to come back.
 
IDK about that. I was never a member of a forum before skeptiko so I'm learning as I go.

A while back I instituted the NAR (no asshole rule). I know the name is jarring, but it's actually based on a very solid business book written by a Stanford professor: The No Asshole Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't

The bottom line is we all gotta make sure we're not being a jerk... at least not too much of a jerk, too much of the time.

So, pls take a couple days off to think about all this and then email me directly when you want to come back.
If the 'no asshole rule' doesn't apply to the moderators the quality of the forum can spiral downwards.
 
If the 'no asshole rule' doesn't apply to the moderators the quality of the forum can spiral downwards.
I think it does, but I don't think it fits David's actions in asking to take a conversation offline. Why don't you email me directly and we can discuss. I'll take you offline until then.
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

Bannings and topic deletions are becoming a sign a very particular set of identity politic promotion + censorious safe spacing is occurring, perhaps ironically it seems to me an identity partially built around criticism of other people's safe spaces and identity politics...
 
B

Backup Liker 2 the Backup

I don't agree with being mean to David, though I have myself said very unkind things to him in the past when he has particularly exacerbated me. And in typical David style he has ignored it and carried on. I think I've always made an apology when I've been especially ignorant to anyone on the site, including David.

I think lots of folks who have been around here awhile and new folks as well just want the forum to remain vibrant and to attract intelligent posters. But instead the opposite appears to be happening at times. Smart people drop off, claim they are bored or busy, or just tired of some particular forum bullshit be it moderation or the once rampant pseudo-skepticism.

I've always maintained the position that moderation should be at an absolute minimum. That anything less not only stifles debate, but it stifles the kind of interesting interaction we see among different personalities. To many of us, Alex's "no asshole rule" is turned into a kind of Sunday school atmosphere by David who continues to ask people to "tone it down" many times when the conversation is at it's most interesting. The telling confession that David feels by his moderation that he is "choosing good guests for a dinner party" is just beyond the pale. The fact is, for at least some of us, his "moderation" is just plain stifling and reeks of condescension.

I'm sure David is a fine chap to sit in the pub and share a pint with, but he is not a good forum moderator for a bunch of quirky, intelligent folks who really want to have a discussion on the internet.

Chuck
 
Bannings and topic deletions are becoming a sign a very particular set of identity politic promotion + censorious safe spacing is occurring, perhaps ironically it seems to me an identity partially built around criticism of other people's safe spaces and identity politics...
naaa... it's really just about folks with poor manners. there's an implied contract to taking part in a free podcast/forum and one clause is to respect the time and effort of volunteers like David (who in this case did absolutely nothing improper/incendiary that I can see)

Besides... no one was banned... they can all come back whenever they want. they just need to nibble on a little humble pie.
 
To many of us, Alex's "no asshole rule" is turned into a kind of Sunday school atmosphere by David who continues to ask people to "tone it down" many times when the conversation is at it's most interesting. The telling confession that David feels by his moderation that he is "choosing good guests for a dinner party" is just beyond the pale...
actually
I think David's analogy is a good one. this is definitely the direction I'd like to see things go.

as you rightly point out, forum members come and go for all kinds of reasons. I'm really, really happy with the direction David has taken the moderation.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
Sounds like several people have had issues with the moderation (including me) and unfortunately there has been bad manners in the expression of it. But I know I don't like all these leavetakings and bannings.
as you rightly point out, forum members come and go for all kinds of reasons.
Alex, this sounds a little like unconsidered disregard for the quality and long-standing status of the forum members who are recently exiling themselves or getting banned over the issue (and yes temp-banned, but I can well imagine guys like Max B and Malf saying "screw this, I'm not coming back").

Tim, Max B, Chuck, Malf, these are among the most prolific members, and who have been here since the old forum. There's like a core of 15, 20 members max who post the most, who sustain the forum outside of the Skeptiko show threads, and there are only rare instances of new members (e.g. Hurmenatar) joining that group in the years since. I don't know what the answer is but I don't like the way this is going. My 2 cents.
 
Alex, this sounds a little like unconsidered disregard for the quality and long-standing status of the forum members who are recently exiling themselves or getting banned over the issue (and yes temp-banned, but I can well imagine guys like Max B and Malf saying "screw this, I'm not coming back").
So far I have simply 'liked' posts to voice my opinion, but I really think I'm on the verge of doing something that would be dumb but at the same time deeply satisfying, for a short while! :) Thank you Ian for expressing in cool tones what I too feel, and might not have been so cool expressing.

Okay Alex, we get it. It's your toy, bought with your money. But what you can't buy is a good, healthy reputation on the internet. I have expressed my thanks to you many times for bringing this forum to us, but I am concerned and disappointed at the turn of events here.

You are the emperor of the forum Alex, but without listening to its 'people' you might well lose the heart that keeps it alive.
 
Okay Alex, we get it. It's your toy, bought with your money.
I guess you don't get it! David is a volunteer who has spent many hours filtering thru spammers, wingnuts and all sorts of trolls in an attempt to provide a forum that allows folks to share stuff about the topics covered on the show.

most posters get this and act accordingly... i.e. they accept an imperfect moderation system and show respect for the people doing the work.
 
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