Mod+ Homeopathy - beyond the ridicule

#1
Homeopathy is becoming a poster-child on the forum for a topic committed 'skeptics' are told to go kick around, leaving more respectable topics in peace (perhaps tongue-in-cheek in some cases). Homeopathy was discussed in a few threads in the old forum but, since it's being used as a laughing stock here, even if jokingly, I thought I'd stick my hand at least briefly into this particular can of worms in light of recent discoveries about water. I humbly offer this thread 'for the record' in the interest of opening minds and raising awareness of this new information - this is an open-minded speculation. I say humbly because I'm barely aware myself - I'm guessing some other members will have more supporting information than I.

Personally, I'm not interested in being told here why it can't be true from the materialist standpoint - I've been hearing that stuff all my life and am well aware of the same-old arguments and ridicule. I have no axe to grind on this topic - I don't really believe in homeopathy myself at this point - but I've learned the hard way not to be too hasty to ridicule things I don't understand. True, I've never had a homeopathic remedy do anything noticeable, not even a noticeable placebo effect, but that says nothing about the premise.

It now seems that water may be a marvelously complex substance with structure and memory. If true, that's the kind of basis homeopathy implicitly requires. Also, it seems chemists have long used solubility tables that remain accurate well below the level of having one molecule of solute per flask of water, loosely speaking. This ultra-weak solution phenomenon seems to me consistent with the quantum mechanical view that matter normally exists as a probability function or wave. A flask may not contain a molecule but perhaps it contains 10% of the probability of a molecule? That's just a speculation; obviously it's not the only possibility, but in any event it seems supportive of the premise that homeopathy is genuine. I have now exhausted my 'expertise' on this topic.

Here's a good starting point, an overview presented by a true expert:


BTW, I should disclose that I try to avoid learning much about cryptozoology so I can point to that field and say, clearly that's ridiculous! I'll no doubt come to regret that:eek:.
 
#6
I'm sorry I wasn't clearer in my intro - several people have asked for guidelines for posts, which I should have made unnecessary up front (inexperience). I posted a 'video' that does a good job explaining the situation for the consideration of anyone wishing to engage with others with similarly open minds. Also, this subforum and thread are outside the materialist discussion area known informally as BvS and marked Mod+ so by definition it is assumed here that materialism does not prevent whatever we're talking about from occurring.

To clarify, while I'm not a homeopathy supporter or detractor, this thread was intended first to provide a link to a fascinating talk by an expert on water. Like me, the speaker in the video, Rustum Roy, does not assert that homeopathy is valid. He just presents his evidence and explains how it supports the possibility of homeopathy having a valid basis (as distinct from methods of practice); I found the talk quite intriguing. Further, it's not obvious to me there's anything there that runs afoul of quantum mechanics, just Newtonian physics, but I don't know enough to be sure (I'd like an expert opinion on that).

The second reason for starting the thread was to see if there's sufficient interest outside the materialist would-be debunkers for a discussion of the evidence regarding the nature of water that lends support to homeopathy, not so much the homeopathy per se (I say would-be debunkers because, in order to debunk, you must first have bunk, which isn't proven in this area). Frankly, I was hoping to flush out a few people who know more than I do, or as much anyway, or are simply interested and open minded. But the goal here is, again, a constructive discussion assuming materialism does not prevent whatever we're talking about from occurring.

Steve001 asked, 'Why is such a contentious polarizing topic mod+?' This topic should only be 'contentious' among those whose minds are closed against it in principle. Open-minded people may disagree about the implications but should be able to discuss the data with minimal rancor.:eek:
 
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#13
I'll say here and now that homeopathy works....

a) for thirst
b) for everything else... as well as placebo

I'll get my coat.....
 
#15
“If you wish to upset the law that all crows are black, you mustn't seek to show that no crows are; it is enough if you prove one single crow to be white.” ― William James

Yeah, what he said. ― john.sundog
I agree with that quote, but when it comes to water having memory, we're basically being expected upset the law that all unicorns are purple.
 
#16
Does it have to be IRON CLAD evidence? Or just... evidence?
http://deanradin.com/papers/emotoIIproof.pdf

And why is "placebo effect" dismissed as "no effect"? It's one of the most mysterious and fascinating things to me that mere intention can produce physical effects that are often equal or even greater than "real medicine".

Why aren't people teaching placebo-fu in every school? Trillions will be saved on pharmaceuticals?
 
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