I think I'm deluded

#1
I've been mulling this over, and I honestly do think I'm fooling myself or being credulous. Especially for survival evidence. To me it seems like wishful thinking, on my part, that I'd even accept it to be true. For it to be so, it would have to apply to all creatures in the universe and on earth, and all life. In a way, survival feels preposterous. But then, perhaps I am just prejudiced.
 
#2
What if evolutionary biology has been inadvertently engaging in necromancy, summoning and trapping spirits?

According to a podcast called Brain Science Podcast, episode 108 Consciousness a social Perception, there is a neuroscientist who said that the mechanisms that relate to consciousness behave very strangely, like two mirrors that face each other. Two mirrors facing each other is a way to summon a spirit or create a portal that a spirit can pass through. It might be the case that evolutionary biology inadvertently created molecular configuration that trap spirits. Just as mirrors that face each other can be used to create a portal for spirits to enter through, evolutionary biology may have inadvertently summoned a spirit. That spirit experiences pain and pleasure (and is very motivated by pain and pleasure). Natural selection created a program of pain and pleasure that controls us. Then, when we are seriously injured or the heart stops, the cage that traps our soul has a breach, and our soul tries to leave the body.
 
#3
What if evolutionary biology has been inadvertently engaging in necromancy, summoning and trapping spirits?

According to a podcast called Brain Science Podcast, episode 108 Consciousness a social Perception, there is a neuroscientist who said that the mechanisms that relate to consciousness behave very strangely, like two mirrors that face each other. Two mirrors facing each other is a way to summon a spirit or create a portal that a spirit can pass through. It might be the case that evolutionary biology inadvertently created molecular configuration that trap spirits. Just as mirrors that face each other can be used to create a portal for spirits to enter through, evolutionary biology may have inadvertently summoned a spirit. That spirit experiences pain and pleasure (and is very motivated by pain and pleasure). Natural selection created a program of pain and pleasure that controls us. Then, when we are seriously injured or the heart stops, the cage that traps our soul has a breach, and our soul tries to leave the body.
I appreciate you trying to help, but that is absolutely unsubstantiated, there is no evidence to say that two mirrors is a way to summon a spirit.
 
#4
I've been mulling this over, and I honestly do think I'm fooling myself or being credulous. Especially for survival evidence. To me it seems like wishful thinking, on my part, that I'd even accept it to be true. For it to be so, it would have to apply to all creatures in the universe and on earth, and all life. In a way, survival feels preposterous. But then, perhaps I am just prejudiced.
I seem to remember you saying as much before. I think we all have our doubts. All but the most arrogant feel that dread of being wrong and being laughed at for being gullible. It is sometimes that very dread that drives us to prove to ourselves that it is not all wishful thinking.

All I can suggest to you is to go back to basics. Look at your personal philosophy. Some people are more comfortable with the materialist status quo served up by the majority of scientists, academics and media. The rest of us have to seek out like minded people - such as many on this forum - to act as sounding boards. It is not unknown for a proponent to move back towards the skeptical view but I have a feeling that the opposite happens more often. I don't think, however, that anyone here can reassure you - we all have our own demons to contend with so there are no slam-dunk arguments to tip the scales for you.

Many proponents here are philosophically close to the ideas spelled out by Bernardo, even if they have never read a word he has written. For example, I used the same analogy as his whirlpool (I called them eddies) way back in 1998. When I read his posts here I just thought, thank you for explaining what I'm not capable of putting into words.
 
#5
I appreciate you trying to help, but that is absolutely unsubstantiated, there is no evidence to say that two mirrors is a way to summon a spirit.
Personally, I'm not willing to face to mirrors toward each other and attempt to contact a spirit in order to substantiate it for you. You are more than welcome to try, but it yourself, but I assume no responsibility for whatever happens. Having said that, if we do have a soul (and I'm pretty confident that we do) then evolutionary biology is probably doing something that is equivalent to summoning and trapping a spirit. How could it be any other way?
 
#6
I've been mulling this over, and I honestly do think I'm fooling myself or being credulous. Especially for survival evidence. To me it seems like wishful thinking, on my part, that I'd even accept it to be true.
Philosophers who have seriously studied the empirical evidence about psychic research have come to the conclusion that there are only two rational choices: psi and an afterlife or super psi, and the latter is not reasonable for certain reasons. So I do not know what you have knowledge of this field.

For it to be so, it would have to apply to all creatures in the universe and on earth, and all life. In a way, survival feels preposterous. But then, perhaps I am just prejudiced.
I think no one has said that only humans to survive biological death. In fact it may all living beings go into another realm after biological death but we would know only the postmortem interactions of members of our own species.
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#7
In terms of objective certainty, I find agnosticism is the best path unless one is hit by definitive evidence. In terms of livable truth, well, you have to take a path or just sit around being frozen with indecision.

As such, I think your fear of being deluded seems a bit bizarre though. What is the worry here? -> That you'll spend tons of money on some religion or other, or buy tons of books about the afterlife?

Seems to me one can simply accept there's more after this without spending money on anything. Beyond that, what's the danger of this supposed delusion?
 
#8
In terms of objective certainty, I find agnosticism is the best path unless one is hit by definitive evidence. In terms of livable truth, well, you have to take a path or just sit around being frozen with indecision.

As such, I think your fear of being deluded seems a bit bizarre though. What is the worry here? -> That you'll spend tons of money on some religion or other, or buy tons of books about the afterlife?

Seems to me one can simply accept there's more after this without spending money on anything. Beyond that, what's the danger of this supposed delusion?
I just read David Darling's book on Zen. And he argued well for a reconciliation between reductionism and the filter theory. Completely blew my mind.
 
#10
Well don't leave me hangin' bro - what did he say?! :)
He basically said how the self and the soul was an illusion. We know this due to brains being easily altered, split personality, injuries, amnesia etc. However, he concludes that "we are conscious despite the brain, not because of it" He's essentially invoking a filter model. Moreover, he reconciles it perfectly with evolution, natural selection etc.
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#11
He basically said how the self and the soul was an illusion. We know this due to brains being easily altered, split personality, injuries, amnesia etc. However, he concludes that "we are conscious despite the brain, not because of it" He's essentially invoking a filter model. Moreover, he reconciles it perfectly with evolution, natural selection etc.
My understanding is that there's some evidence suggestive of ego survival in the afterlife?

Honestly I'm not well read in NDE stuff, so I don't really know. But perhaps some of this Zen stuff could help you come to terms with your feelings regarding ego dissolution?

Personally, I found Alan Watts to be helpful in this regard.
 
#12
My understanding is that there's some evidence suggestive of ego survival in the afterlife?

Honestly I'm not well read in NDE stuff, so I don't really know. But perhaps some of this Zen stuff could help you come to terms with your feelings regarding ego dissolution?

Personally, I found Alan Watts to be helpful in this regard.
Oh no, the ego dies, that's for sure. (his view) I'm glad it doesn't survive. Ego's for me are a severe cause of suffering.
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#13
Oh no, the ego dies, that's for sure. (his view) I'm glad it doesn't survive. Ego's for me are a severe cause of suffering.
Personally I suspect individual identity is subsumed into something larger, but I'm not fully convinced by my own intuition. OTOH I've had experiences in my youth that suggest the dreaming & waking worlds blur together and dying wakes us into a new dream, but I can also see my own brain as tricking me as my best veridical evidence is spotty.

Yet even at my most materialist, the thing that leaves me in doubt is I had a similar experience to Alex Grey when he demanded God give him a reason not to commit suicide. Yet I didn't acquire LSD, so I had no visions. My experience was more the intervention of what felt like the Divine Feminine that apparently comes to some ayahuasca & psilocybin users even if there are no views of spirits or divergent realities.

But to be clear I wasn't on anything at the time. I don't even think I had drunk coffee that day. :-0

Why would a goddess, or perhaps The Goddess, care about whether or not I killed myself? Was it just a trick of the brain to keep me from offing myself? Anyway, during that transcendental experience I was convinced that souls are real and have a choice between reincarnation into this world or passage into other realms.

I accept it might have all be a well timed neurological spasm or whatever, but like other experiencers that feels like a cop out.

Don't know if any of that is helpful, but from my personal experience I can't say what happens after death but I suspect it's more interesting than just brain death = mind death.
 
#14
Personally I suspect individual identity is subsumed into something larger, but I'm not fully convinced by my own intuition. OTOH I've had experiences in my youth that suggest the dreaming & waking worlds blur together and dying wakes us into a new dream, but I can also see my own brain as tricking me as my best veridical evidence is spotty.

Yet even at my most materialist, the thing that leaves me in doubt is I had a similar experience to Alex Grey when he demanded God give him a reason not to commit suicide. Yet I didn't acquire LSD, so I had no visions. My experience was more the intervention of what felt like the Divine Feminine that apparently comes to some ayahuasca & psilocybin users even if there are no views of spirits or divergent realities.

But to be clear I wasn't on anything at the time. I don't even think I had drunk coffee that day. :-0

Why would a goddess, or perhaps The Goddess, care about whether or not I killed myself? Was it just a trick of the brain to keep me from offing myself? Anyway, during that transcendental experience I was convinced that souls are real and have a choice between reincarnation into this world or passage into other realms.

I accept it might have all be a well timed neurological spasm or whatever, but like other experiencers that feels like a cop out.

Don't know if any of that is helpful, but from my personal experience I can't say what happens after death but I suspect it's more interesting than just brain death = mind death.
It sounds like you had a mystical experience, Darling talks about them in his book.
 
#15
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