I'm glad you elaborated, because this thread could have gone in a completely different direction.Well often parapsychologists have the problem that even if they have statistical evidence of an effect they have mechanism of action. am just wonderig what the mechanism of action of OBE clairvoyance would be.
I'm glad you elaborated, because this thread could have gone in a completely different direction.
As for this new question there's only one answer. The answer is, nobody has a frickin clue.
Welcome to this forum.
If paranormal perception in near death experiences were 'proven' what would this mean?
If paranormal perception during near death experiences were proven what would this mean, what model of the universe would this support?
It appears irrational to me.The members of the lower dimension, or physical, interpret these phenomena as occuring only in their world, having no experience of other realities, which is altogether a rational approach, but narrow minded in the end.
Even so why is that not physical. Perhaps these words,"materialism, physical, physicalism, are defined too narrowly.It would prove perception involves a possible nonphysical mechanism, either a disembodied consciousness made the observation, which would be the more parsimonious explanation if not for the entrenched physicalistic bias of the scientific establishment, or super-psi perception. Frankly, there hasn't been any satisfactory materialistic explanation of the full spectrum of NDE since Blackmore's outdated dying brain hypothesis. And even if there were, it wouldn't automatically falsify the survival hypothesis. Think of a "Flatland" scenario, where objects or people in a higher dimension can always perceive things in the lower dimensions, while the reverse applies only in rare instances eg. NDE,
OBE or psychic experiences. Events that bridge these two domains, spiritual and material, can leave traces in the material world, for instance increased electrical activity at the moment of death, like a hypercube in the fourth dimension casting the shadow of a cube in the third dimension. The members of the lower dimension, or physical, interpret these phenomena as occuring only in their world, having no experience of other realities, which is altogether a rational approach, but narrow minded in the end.
Even so why is that not physical. Perhaps these words,"materialism, physical, physicalism, are defined too narrowly.
But Wiseman has agreed that by the rigid high standards of evidence imposed by science as it is currently practiced, PSI is already proved. The issue is that sceptics want to introduce some additional criteria, which means PSI can always be denied. It isn't about science, it hasn't been for a long time now. Rather it is about avoiding doing science.So we are left with anecdotes and some research, such as the ganzfeld that indicates something interesting is going on, but these lines of evidence will never pass the rigid high standards of evidence imposed by science as it is currently practiced.
But Wiseman has agreed that by the rigid high standards of evidence imposed by science as it is currently practiced, PSI is already proved. The issue is that sceptics want to introduce some additional criteria, which means PSI can always be denied. It isn't about science, it hasn't been for a long time now. Rather it is about avoiding doing science.
Physicalism represents the philosophical position which in essence states that reality is represented only by the physical world and it derives its influence to the immense success of physics in describing the physical world. It is a monistic ontology, opposed to idealism or dualism.
Veridical OBE perception, psychic experiences or any other psi phenomena will seriously challenge this position, since it will involve a mechanism beyond the five physical senses, a sixth sense if you will. You can see here why psi and NDE research is seriously opposed by skeptics and the scientific community in general, since it invalidates their ontological consensus or worldview, which is physicalism or materialism, no matter how open minded they claim to be. The unpredictable and erratic nature of these phenomena relating to consciousness precludes replication, a powerful tool of verificating any hypothesis in the physical sciences. So we are left with anecdotes and some research, such as the ganzfeld that indicates something interesting is going on, but these lines of evidence will never pass the rigid high standards of evidence imposed by science as it is currently practiced.
But Wiseman has agreed that by the rigid high standards of evidence imposed by science as it is currently practiced, PSI is already proved. The issue is that sceptics want to introduce some additional criteria, which means PSI can always be denied. It isn't about science, it hasn't been for a long time now. Rather it is about avoiding doing science.
Let's say ghosts which represent the spiritual immaterial world are proven to be real, would that make them any less physical than a photon, the weak force or you? I feel the use of two particular isms are too rigid.Physicalism represents the philosophical position which in essence states that reality is represented only by the physical world and it derives its influence to the immense success of physics in describing the physical world. It is a monistic ontology, opposed to idealism or dualism.
Veridical OBE perception, psychic experiences or any other psi phenomena will seriously challenge this position, since it will involve a mechanism beyond the five physical senses, a sixth sense if you will. You can see here why psi and NDE research is seriously opposed by skeptics and the scientific community in general, since it invalidates their ontological consensus or worldview, which is physicalism or materialism, no matter how open minded they claim to be. The unpredictable and erratic nature of these phenomena relating to consciousness precludes replication, a powerful tool of verificating any hypothesis in the physical sciences. So we are left with anecdotes and some research, such as the ganzfeld that indicates something interesting is going on, but these lines of evidence will never pass the rigid high standards of evidence imposed by science as it is currently practiced.
What do you mean by shown to exist?On another note, it would be interesting to see if poltergeist activity can be shown to exist. There you have a seemingly nonphysical force influencing things in physical reality.
Just to clarify woo woo. It's not that skeptics outright reject such things it's the way such things are presented: first a conclusion is reached then one reasons their way to it. Have you seen examples?I am using philosophical jargon more as a convenience to illustrate the different viewpoints that are out there, since I too believe reality is far more complicated than it appears. My best guess is a sort of idealist many layered filter hypothesis, where reality is like an onion with many strata that sometimes mingle with one another but are distinct in terms of properties, with consciousness being probably fundamental, although I have some reservations on how we define consciousness or individual selves. You have the physical world, the universe with its 12 or 26 dimensions and possibly a multiverse of universes with different properties + Everett's many worlds hypothesis with its infinite array of universes derived from the wave function not collapsing into one reality but two. Then you have the so called "astral planes" or locales in Monroe's terminology with their own strange characteristics and entities(there's so much to discuss here), then you have the DMT realms of self transforming machine elves and alien insectoids(Terence Mckenna and Rick Strassman), the Dharmadatu, Nirvana or Summerland were few mystics have claimed to have visited, and maybe some NDErs where you are closest to what an Universal God Intelligence Cosmic Consciousness might be. And the list goes on and on. Good luck making sense of all of this. The materialist or skeptic will instantly cry woowoo, delusion, hallucination because obviously it is difficult to grapple and accept that these things might exist.
On another note, it would be interesting to see if poltergeist activity can be shown to exist. There you have a seemingly nonphysical force influencing things in physical reality.
Do you really need to have this defined?What do you mean by shown to exist?