Wormwood
Member
I do not remember which shows thread this occurred in, but some time back I was attempting to explain why I feel that “non-traumic” OBEs are a more valuable form of data (depending upon the experiencer) to be used in our understanding of these “afterlife states.” I was having a difficult time conveying myself in that thread. I just came across this post by Jurgen Ziewe on the NDE Facebook page. Apparently, he was having issues getting his posts approved as his experiences are not TECHNICALLY NDEs. But his post made me remember that conversation and my futile attempt at explaining myself. So I’ll paste what Jurgen wrote here as he perfectly explains what I was attempting to get it.
It’s my strong contention (with an air of caution) that In attempting to discern potential afterlife states that we would be strongly advised to rely less on actual NDEs and more so on OBEs attained by expierinced, grounded, and dogma free individuals, and also on credible channeled information. Indeed, we see lots of common threads amongst credible OBErs and what is generally considered good channeled information by serious non-dogmatic afterlife researchers. This data is almost never discussed in this forum. Which is fine, but that’s a point I wanted to make. Here’s Jurgens post:
“When researching testimonials of NDEs and their presentation by some authors, I found some writers have appropriated those testimonials and accounts to align them with the Christian belief system. It is obvious that NDEs are not investigations / explorations, they are almost exclusively experienced against a hyper dramatic background, connected to physical trauma, initiated suddenly and unprepared. People are catapulted out of their bodies, often still encapsulated in their lower energy body until they project via the “tunnel” phenomena into the astral realm, with no time to adjust or find their orientation. They are then confronted with the most powerful and often life changing experiences to be had as a human being.
Such trauma provokes an intensive response from the deeper layers of human consciousness, the archaic primary self. Very often this makes itself known as a spiritual being of light and is frequently identified as the Christian Avatar of Jesus - rightly or not (and then pounced on by Authors with a Christian bias, sometimes with a view of catering for a ready market).
Although many of the testimonies are congruent with experience to be had via deep meditation, OBEs and higher awareness such as during Samadhi, there seems to be little interest in correlating these to NDEs. People going through NDEs and reporting them, often have no prior knowledge or experiences of the Out-of-Body phenomena, are nearly always first-timers without any other reference system other than religion.
There are few “repeat NDEs”, if any. On the other hand Deep Meditation and Astral projection allows for a much broader intake of information, which could be helpful. Even though they may often be constrained to the lower levels of consciousness, they still confirm some of the testimonials of NDE experiencers. More so when the higher energies are activated which promotes experience which are congruent with those so often reported in NDEs, ie profound experience of unconditional love, meeting deceased relatives, the presence of beings of light etc.
I noticed that my contributions here are often dismissed and don’t make it into this forum, like my recent video presentation, despite the fact that I documented hundreds of “NDEs” in my books, though not brought about by trauma but spontaneously via deep meditation, including OBEs and profound states of higher consciousness. Because they are often congruent with those reported by NDEers, I thought my observation and those of others could be helpful here, as they embrace and open up a wider field view and context.
However, I understand if the focus here is specialised on trauma victims. If so I would appreciate your feedback on this. In which case of course I won’t be wasting anyone’s and my time posting here. To find out more on the background of this, simply visit the link here”
It’s my strong contention (with an air of caution) that In attempting to discern potential afterlife states that we would be strongly advised to rely less on actual NDEs and more so on OBEs attained by expierinced, grounded, and dogma free individuals, and also on credible channeled information. Indeed, we see lots of common threads amongst credible OBErs and what is generally considered good channeled information by serious non-dogmatic afterlife researchers. This data is almost never discussed in this forum. Which is fine, but that’s a point I wanted to make. Here’s Jurgens post:
“When researching testimonials of NDEs and their presentation by some authors, I found some writers have appropriated those testimonials and accounts to align them with the Christian belief system. It is obvious that NDEs are not investigations / explorations, they are almost exclusively experienced against a hyper dramatic background, connected to physical trauma, initiated suddenly and unprepared. People are catapulted out of their bodies, often still encapsulated in their lower energy body until they project via the “tunnel” phenomena into the astral realm, with no time to adjust or find their orientation. They are then confronted with the most powerful and often life changing experiences to be had as a human being.
Such trauma provokes an intensive response from the deeper layers of human consciousness, the archaic primary self. Very often this makes itself known as a spiritual being of light and is frequently identified as the Christian Avatar of Jesus - rightly or not (and then pounced on by Authors with a Christian bias, sometimes with a view of catering for a ready market).
Although many of the testimonies are congruent with experience to be had via deep meditation, OBEs and higher awareness such as during Samadhi, there seems to be little interest in correlating these to NDEs. People going through NDEs and reporting them, often have no prior knowledge or experiences of the Out-of-Body phenomena, are nearly always first-timers without any other reference system other than religion.
There are few “repeat NDEs”, if any. On the other hand Deep Meditation and Astral projection allows for a much broader intake of information, which could be helpful. Even though they may often be constrained to the lower levels of consciousness, they still confirm some of the testimonials of NDE experiencers. More so when the higher energies are activated which promotes experience which are congruent with those so often reported in NDEs, ie profound experience of unconditional love, meeting deceased relatives, the presence of beings of light etc.
I noticed that my contributions here are often dismissed and don’t make it into this forum, like my recent video presentation, despite the fact that I documented hundreds of “NDEs” in my books, though not brought about by trauma but spontaneously via deep meditation, including OBEs and profound states of higher consciousness. Because they are often congruent with those reported by NDEers, I thought my observation and those of others could be helpful here, as they embrace and open up a wider field view and context.
However, I understand if the focus here is specialised on trauma victims. If so I would appreciate your feedback on this. In which case of course I won’t be wasting anyone’s and my time posting here. To find out more on the background of this, simply visit the link here”