Jason Louv, A Strange Mix of Scientism and Magick |385|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Yes they can, why would a more honest description of their practice be psychology?
    Maybe their viewpoint is they can manipulate "Physical" matter and that's their "magick" I haven't seen the interview, he sounds like a charlatan though
     
  2. malf

    malf Member

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    Perhaps anyone who doesn't see the magic in the physical world isn't looking hard enough.
     
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  3. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Because using the term Magick implies manipulation of super-natural forces.

    An atheist materialist like Jason Louv using the term is absurd.
     
  4. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Nah not really. He might think he's manipulating physical forces, which are not "supernatural"
     
  5. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Magick is the immersion of using seen and unseen forces. Some magicians are atheist and work with nature or their subconscious mind. One occultist who comes to mind is that guy with the glasses and long hair, styxx is his name I think? His videos are posted on here. I'm an atheist practioner, but I do believe in unseen forces not yet rediscovered
     
  6. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    The problem with religion is they presuppose God, the problem with atheist is they presuppose that God doesnt exist or its very unlikely. When people hear magick they automatically assume the person is in to spirituality and worships a God or gods. And yes some do work with deities, not all some work with their subconscious mind and or hallucinations, some work with nature and her known practical laws and there are many other forms
     
  7. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    I have daily psi now me and other family members it's not a big deal to us since we have been doing it since we were kids. Do I have a scientific model for it? No, do I have evidence for it? Yes! mainstream science says it doesn't exist and beg to differ since I experience it almost daily and it can't be tested in a lab. So you think I am going to waste my energy on useless "logical" drivel. No I'm going to sharpen and hone it, for safety, as a guide to possibly help other people. Do I think there is a God? I don't know, life after death? Who cares I'm alive right now why waste my time wondering all day, I can't even comprehend eternity or conceptualize it so why think too much about it? I'm trying to be great I don't treat my psi and clairvoyance as a hobby and read over logical stuff by pretentious writers or pseudo skeptics like Shermer or novella who are industry paid frauds
     
  8. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Jesus was a pacifist
    Bhudda, which I haven't dived in to deeply was a pacifist who was a bit too stoic.
    Mohammed.... I've only heard things and seen out of context Memes and quotes.

    I'm interested in the quaran, I read a English version it's read similar to the Bible
     
  9. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Styxx is not a Materialist.

    Are you?
     
  10. JoeR

    JoeR Member

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    For what it's worth I thought Alex and Jason seemed to "lock horns" over different perspectives on Science. I thought Jason was arguing that Science (The Method), is the best tool man has developed. I agree with that from the perspective that Science is a subset of "reality", and a reliable tool. In it's purest form the method yields measurable and repeatable results. Science and Magic don't need to be mutually exclusive, they both can exist, and neither has all the answer despite what some Materialists or Magicians may argue.

    I thought Alex was arguing from the perspective of the negative consequences of the "miss-use" of the Scientific Method, i.e. where Science has negative consequences, either by mistake or worse for nefarious or political purposes. Both arguments are valid, but they are different arguments.

    I obviously could be incorrect but that was the impression I had from the interview. Not bad overall but the level of confrontation prevented them from taking these interesting topics further. Alex did a good job of keeping his cool as Jason became emotional, which I think is understandable.

    I listened to him on THC and Rune Soup and like many others wasn't sure what to make of him. This interview brought out the emotion in him, which I think demonstrates he is passionate and believes what he is preaching. That's a good thing, whether you agree or disagree with him.
     
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  11. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    I'm pretty sure he is or was and stated in his very early videos,unless I'm mistaken. I'm not a materialist that word smells of condensecion. I'm uncategorized, I could say I'm a free thinker but nah. Psi and telekinesis doesn't have to be conflated with God or an afterlife. It's really that simple, I don't have beliefs they are traps. PSI and telekinesis are real I've experienced them. Doesn't mean I have to believe in a God or afterlife
     
  12. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Let's try to avoid really brief questions like that - it makes it super hard for others to read a thread containing discussions like that!

    David
     
  13. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Well bringing passion to a subject can't always be good - for example, Hitler brought plenty of passion to his speeches!

    I felt he brought passion to his comments about science because he didn't have any depth to what he was saying at that point. I mean, if he had looked at Skeptiko for a few minutes, he would see that try to tie ψ phenomena to science, and we criticise some science for having gone off the rails! All he had to do was say he didn't know/wasn't interested in science.

    David
     
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  14. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    I never asserted they did. I said that using the term Magick implies manipulation of super-natural forces.

    An atheist materialist like Jason Louv using the term to describe his work is absurd and fraudulent.
     
  15. Vortex

    Vortex Member

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    The censorship is the land of the First Amendment? Wonder who is next... I'm afraid, some of my most beloved alternative news sites are now uder threat:

    Attack the System on the Censorship of the InfoWars

    (Watch the video - and read my comment below: I explain that, while I dislike Jones and disagree with him a lot, I'll stand for his free speech... especially understanding that the free speech for him also means the free speech for me, 9/11 Truth movement, Anti-Imperialist Left, Counter-Cuture Left etc.).
     
  16. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    No its not conflating magick with supernatural is deceptive. Magick doesn't need a God or gods. You can simply use the known laws of nature and manipulate them to your will
     
  17. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Supernatural is just a term used for things we don't yet understand or perceive yet as a whole
     
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  18. malf

    malf Member

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    Wifi still feels pretty magical to me.
     
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  19. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    I never asserted it did.

    "Super" means "above" and "beyond" natural laws.

    Magick implies manipulation of super-natural forces.

    An atheist materialist like Jason Louv using the term to describe his work is absurd and fraudulent.
     
  20. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Magick doesnt apply that nesscarily, you need to research more from that remedial conclusion
     

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