Jasun Horsley, Socio-Spiritual Engineering |392|

#21
Very interesting interview, Alex -- I applaud your efforts to bring these dark social engineering agendas to light in a thoughtful, non-sensationalized way. I've read a number of Jasun Horsley's blog posts over the last few years -- he's one of the few intellectuals discussing the reality of elite pedophilia and ritualized child sex abuse -- and I believe he claims to be from an elite family who practiced this type of ritualized abuse. I've just downloaded Prisoner of Infinity and am glad to see that he's immediately tackling this aspect as an integral part of the socio-spiritual engineering agenda. The ritualized sexual abuse of children is a major aspect of the elite's public and private agenda. The uses for/reasons behind it include not only the satisfaction of deviant-psychopathic desires and/or the creation of useful, traumatized (and controllable) Manchurian candidates, but as Jasun makes clear, it is also a deeply religious-spiritual practice for some of the more demented among us. Specifically, as Jasun explains on his blog and in POI, a primary reason for the ritualized rape of children at elite levels is to intentionally "transcend" social taboos -- in order to commune with the Divine! Says Jasun:

"Ordinary social, community order is constructed around the idea -- the tangible reality -- of the existence of discontinuous beings and it requires certain codes to maintain that order (thou shall not kill, steal,or lust after your neighbor's wife, for example). Conversely, mystical experience and religious doctrine pertains to the opposite idea, that of a continuity of being in which everyone is equally subservient to (and inseparable from) the Divine Order (God). So ,while social order is maintained largely through the implementation of religious taboos, the mystical and religious imperative is to transcend the social order and discover the underlying continuity of being. This inevitably entails the breaking of socioreligious taboos."

This is obviously a deeply disturbing and deeply demented "spiritual" belief system -- as is the belief that deeply sexually traumatized individuals are more in touch with their psi powers and (genuine) alternate realities -- i.e., break their psyche, force them to fragment, and they are somehow more in touch with the Divine? What does this all say about the nature of the Divine?

I also listened to Streiber on THC a while back and felt instinctively that there was something wrong/false about him. His telling of his "experiences" were too classical in story structure -- more like a novelist creating a fiction than a man recounting true experiences. It was also the first time I had heard of his strange childhood as a child victim participant in military mind control programs at Randolph AFB -- putting him in a catch-22: how can we trust someone who has been deeply traumatized/fragmented to distinguish between reality and fantasy -- and yet, by not trusting him, aren't we allowing such horrific mind-control programs to continue to victimize? No wonder whistleblowers like Cathy O'Brien are dismissed as wackos by those who haven't done the research. Their stories sound insane and they seem broken.

Final thoughts on the podcast -- I think Jasun made a good point about John Mack that Alex seemed to immediately discount. John Mack is often considered genuine by the ufo-abductee-experiencer community because of his Harvard credentials but also because he was (allegedly) fired from Harvard (giving him street cred). But couldn't that have been an intentional set-up too? Is it possible his efforts were also part of the larger socio-spiritual agenda? Layers upon layers of deception.
 
#22
Socio-spiritual engineering may be practiced by folk who have a genuinely deeply vision of what is going on, as opposed to the sociopaths driven by a blend narcissism and grasping greed. We'd better hope so (I do). In our complex cultures such engineering en masse is nigh impossible, so fragmentation and isolation is a useful method. That also means that the non-conforming and non-compliant are harder to manage - so distract most, and ignore the rest. Such engineering is business as usual (for any social creature actually), and has been so for many millennia. Its nothing to get excited about.
I'm not so sure that's true. It seems that the technology that enables "engineering en masse" has been greatly improved and accelerated in the past couple of decades. If the MIC and Silicon Valley have perfected various methods of mind control that in fact can be utilized en-masse (e.g., various wireless technology, "smart" home technology, nanotechnology in food/water/air, sound wave technology, remote access mind control -- not to mention the simple mind control/social engineering efforts via social media), I think there probably is something to get excited about (even if you can't do anything about it).

So while it probably doesn't do your YouTube watching friend any good in the mental health department to dwell continuously on the evils of the world and the dark elitist agenda that is becoming blatantly apparent, ignoring it completely seems only to enable the virus to spread unchallenged. You of all people here should know there is a spiritual war being waged.
 
#23
So is the entire sub (super?) culture of the world's elite like-minded around this deviant, malignant behavior? Are those new to those circles conscripted into participation with 100% efficacy? (Thinking of, for example, the rise of the uber rich/powerful silicon valley crowd; many (most?) of which would be first generation elites.) There's no sub-sub group among them with any moral compass?

I mean if this is truly real, what's the end game here?
 
#24
So is the entire sub (super?) culture of the world's elite like-minded around this deviant, malignant behavior? Are those new to those circles conscripted into participation with 100% efficacy? (Thinking of, for example, the rise of the uber rich/powerful silicon valley crowd; many (most?) of which would be first generation elites.) There's no sub-sub group among them with any moral compass?

I mean if this is truly real, what's the end game here?
I don't think there's 100% conscription, no. But I do think there are those among the SV crowd who have extremely suspect backgrounds (i.e., coming from high level military intelligence families or very connected families who were already part of the uber rich, etc) (similar to what Dave McGowan uncovered with Laurel Canyon), and the creation and rise of SV itself is awash in SRI and military industrial complex fingerprints. Also, studies have shown that extreme wealth erodes empathy -- I believe Princeton University did a detailed study on this.

But I think you could imagine the downward trajectory: If you suddenly found yourself a SV billionaire through sheer luck/hard work, you may find that you like being at the top and having others cater to your every whim/fantasy/sexual desire. People don't say no to you anymore. It surely must have a corrosive effect -- at least on those with shaky moral compasses to begin with. So maybe you start to become willing to do things you never thought you'd do to stay on top. Maybe initially, you are willing to use your position to change laws for your benefit (even if the changes harm others less fortunate/connected), then maybe you are willing to invest in shady or harmful businesses that make you even more money (e.g., weapons, trans-humanist technology, spyware, etc.), then maybe you are willing to support an engineered war to increase weapons sales for that business you own/heavily invested in, etc.... Maybe it begins that way. And then maybe once you are at these upper echelons, where you have women and men throwing themselves at you (or being provided to you as a "perk" of your status/position), you start to think about transcending even those boundaries of willing adult participants. And then maybe you become willing to join -- or get entrapped into -- the Eyes Wide Shut Child Rape Club. As Alex says on this podcast -- that's the moral line in the sand -- and once you cross that line, you're all in.

Have you ever seen the show Altered Carbon on Netflix? It's a sci-fi show about being able to put your consciousness into different physical bodies (called sleeves?). In that show, the immortality technology is mostly available to the "elite" (and their minions), and the "elite" get their jollies by raping/beating up/torturing and ultimately killing prostitutes (with the promise to the poor prostitute that they'll get a new sleeve/body after they allow themselves to be so tortured and killed). Why would this be the "pleasure" of a normal functioning human being at any socio-economic level? Yet, the creators of this show recognized it as something someone with enough money/power might ultimately find pleasurable. It doesn't touch too much on the pedophilia aspect -- but it's implied there as well. Perhaps once you have all the money and power in the world, healthy normal,consensual adult sexual relationships cease to satisfy. Read the Marquis de Sade for more.

I don't know the end game. But I do know that denying this is actually happening -- and more often than you think at those levels -- does nothing to make it stop. Why is it that every time I raise something about this topic, Silence, that you demand to know if "everyone" is involved? If "everyone" is not involved, does that make you sleep better at night? What is it you are trying to ascertain by this constant line of questioning?
 
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#25
It seems that the technology that enables "engineering en masse" has been greatly improved and accelerated in the past couple of decades. If the MIC and Silicon Valley have perfected various methods of mind control that in fact can be utilized en-masse (e.g., various wireless technology, "smart" home technology, nanotechnology in food/water/air, sound wave technology, remote access mind control -- not to mention the simple mind control/social engineering efforts via social media), I think there probably is something to get excited about (even if you can't do anything about it).
Can you offer some concrete evidence for that statement?

David
 
#26
Can you offer some concrete evidence for that statement?

David
Well, David, I could point you to books and articles I've read and interviews I've listened to about various emerging technologies and the dangers they present... if I were interested in doing the work for you. Or you could do your own homework if you had any genuine interest, and come to your own conclusions. I'm sure some of the technological advances noted above are not news to you unless you've been living under a rock? Also, I would never say anything I haven't experienced myself is "concrete evidence" -- and even personal "experience" -- as discussed in this very podcast -- can often be suspect.
 
#27
Well, David, I could point you to books and articles I've read and interviews I've listened to about various emerging technologies and the dangers they present... if I were interested in doing the work for you. Or you could do your own homework if you had any genuine interest, and come to your own conclusions. I'm sure some of the technological advances noted above are not news to you unless you've been living under a rock? Also, I would never say anything I haven't experienced myself is "concrete evidence" -- and even personal "experience" -- as discussed in this very podcast -- can often be suspect.
Right - well usually people who have interesting information, like to share it when asked - both to the person who asked, and to everyone else. In the same way, those who wrote the articles to which you refer, wanted to share the information with you.

I guess you work in a different way.

David
 
#28
Right - well usually people who have interesting information, like to share it when asked - both to the person who asked, and to everyone else. In the same way, those who wrote the articles to which you refer, wanted to share the information with you.

I guess you work in a different way.

David
Right -- well, usually when people are being sincere, rather than snarky, they don't ask for "concrete evidence" -- since any book or article or podcast I'd share can hardly qualify under that standard.

If you are genuine in your interest, you might start with John Marks' The Search for the Manchurian Candidate or Colin Ross' The CIA Doctors and work your own way forward from there.
 
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#29
Right -- well, usually when people are being sincere, rather than snarky, they don't ask for "concrete evidence" -- since any book or article or podcast I'd share can hardly qualify under that standard.
I wasn't really getting snarky, but I just feel the discussion could do with a few more examples - even if we are only talking about allegations. I'd like something specific to read.

David
 
#30
(There was a study done on puppies where a scientist lavished excessive love and devotion to growing dogs and they ended up rather apathetic about him in the end. When he treated puppies cruelly they grew up hating him, but were able to build up their identities apart from him. However when he randomly chose to treat them lovingly or cruelly they became desperate to please him, very needy and anxious.)
Interesting (though of course that's a horrific study, which shouldn't have been allowed in the first place).....We seem to be in the same existential situation as those poor puppies - but the 'scientist(s)' who is/are making experiments on us is/are hidden behind the Veil.
 
#31
I wasn't really getting snarky, but I just feel the discussion could do with a few more examples - even if we are only talking about allegations. I'd like something specific to read.

David

Ok, David, here are some mainstream media articles that provide a few examples to get you going.

https://news.yahoo.com/blogs/techno...-weapons-straight-sci-fi-movie-215550863.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-weapon-attacks-at-us-embassy-in-cuba-deepens

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99472&page=1

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/23/magazine/the-sound-of-things-to-come.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm


If you don't think the MIC/intelligence agencies are weaponizing sound/wireless/computer technology....or if you think that government-sanctioned (initiated) mind-control efforts ended with the Church Committee, I don't know what to tell you....guess we all have to make up our own minds on this (while we still can ;)).

Finally, here's a report to consider with respect to the U.S. government's intentional irradiation of various human populations without consent or concern for human welfare. I'd suggest naivete if you think professed ethical concerns have put any constraints on similar "testing" in the tech arena....

https://web.archive.org/web/2007032...ov/healthsafety/ohre/roadmap/achre/index.html
 
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#33
I'm not so sure that's true. It seems that the technology that enables "engineering en masse" has been greatly improved and accelerated in the past couple of decades. If the MIC and Silicon Valley have perfected various methods of mind control that in fact can be utilized en-masse (e.g., various wireless technology, "smart" home technology, nanotechnology in food/water/air, sound wave technology, remote access mind control -- not to mention the simple mind control/social engineering efforts via social media), I think there probably is something to get excited about (even if you can't do anything about it).

So while it probably doesn't do your YouTube watching friend any good in the mental health department to dwell continuously on the evils of the world and the dark elitist agenda that is becoming blatantly apparent, ignoring it completely seems only to enable the virus to spread unchallenged. You of all people here should know there is a spiritual war being waged.
I think it is good thing that more and more people are waking up to reality that what we have been sold as real isn't. I am not proposing anybody ignores the dark agenda completely. But I am saying that it is not necessary to know the details of an agenda we cannot influence, and which actually may be none of our business.I see there are multiple intersecting games being played, and we need to know which game we are in. What I also see is that there is a lot of useless information floating around about games we are not in. It is often information we can not check or verify, and we believe it or not according to our inclinations.

Sun Tzu's The Art of War is worth reading. There are ways of winning a conflict without fighting. One way is to deplete an enemy's resources by tying them up in things that deflect intent, weaken resolve, and sow doubt and confusion.

We are given information about "the dark elitist agenda", but, have you noticed that there is nothing about the "light agenda"? There are some fights, while fascinating and worrying, that are not ours to be involved in. If we have no balanced awareness then we can become entranced by things that we cannot influence - and all that happens is that our psychic energy is wasted.

You can't use the virus analogy here to support your case. In case of an epidemic isolation is the best strategy, not getting out as a volunteer -as noble as that may be - because that will spread the virus faster than people who elect quarantine.

I see a lot of knowledge pride at play. A lot of people who cannot tell the difference between useful knowledge and stuff that convinces them they belong to a minority who have the good sense to know what is really going on. I have gone back to the THC podcast recently to listen to Whitley's interview, and stayed to listen to a few other shows whose topics interested me. What I found was a blend of well-founded concern mingled with really naive analysis (just back your gut and leave the analysis to the experts) and over-egged claims supported by woefully ignorant critiques. Yes, we are being lied to routinely, and it is a good thing to go looking to the whys and wherefores to satisfy your needs. But why, then, think that what you have found constitutes anything resembling a deep and coherent analysis that should be published? We are constantly being induced to waste our time on rubbish, and by doing so I say we are playing into the hands of the 'dark elite' - when we should be quarantining ourselves we are being lured out to become infected.

I think any decent grasp of history tells us there are always multiple games being played. Innocents, deluded by noble lies, and driven by poverty, are induced to become players in the games of the 'dark elite'. We saw this in World War 1, and in the Gulf wars. Had citizens ignored the grand games of the the plutocrats those awful tragedies would not have unfolded.

We now have the technology to describe and spread ideas to people who never had the inclination to read and research. Apparently these days being a random mental ball bouncing around YouTube constitutes research. Like hell, it does. So the dark agenda has been revealed or exposed? Its been around for millennia. And if any of us think we have a hope of getting our heads around it, let's be realistic. We have no chance. Consequently a lot of alarmist hype gets picked up and repeated as unverifiable content - and we have no way of knowing what it is.

Is there a spiritual war going on? There sure is a lot of energy invested in getting us to think there is. But I want to put this in context. We have been long conditioned to think we are the smartest fucks in the universes even if we no longer personally believe that, our psyches are riddled with that propaganda. There may be agencies that see us as fair game, as prey. There may be other agencies who have a more conservationist spirit and want to keep us safe. But if so, on what level is that a 'spiritual war'?

I have absolutely no truck with the people who style themselves as contemporary Gnostics. What they peddle is not Gnosticism, but a contemporary paranoid conspiracy theory that focuses on the illness and has nothing to say about the cure. Its bad metaphysics as well. They insist there is a spiritual war going on, but on the subject of how an individual might respond there is nothing. Instead it is like sitting around a campfire becoming mesmerised by the flames. The war, the conflict, is all encompassing.

I see a similar thing in the seemingly endless spewing of superhero movies. The humans are powerless witnesses and collateral damage. Endless witless biff lays waste to real estate (thank God there's an exclusion clause in insurance policies). Where is the solution for the audience?

Ages ago I made myself very unpopular at uni by declaring myself an inactivist. I championed non-participation and non-engagement. If I don't participate and I don't engage then the infection cannot spread. The Gnostics had a response, which is now ignored. It is spiritual practice. Its one thing to describe the raging storm, and another to shelter from it. The solution to the storm is not try to contest with it, but find shelter and wait until it passes. The should endures, and the vicissitudes of the material world do not.

But contemporary Gnosticism, at least a certain popular version of it, has no spiritual dimension to it beyond using mythology to craft the narrative of oppression and exploitation. To me it is a materialistic and bastardised version of the original exploited because its a money spinner.

The answer is not to become a hermit in quarantined isolation, but to engage in what is good and worthy. By so doing we influence what we can, and we remain strong within that.

Here's a question - how hard are you working to make the world you can influence better? I don't want to come across as a conceited prick but I am doing the best I can, and that leaves me very little time to get into games I can't influence. I am not being smug or superior - I have simply made personal choices about where my energy goes. I make no judgements about other's people's choices - only assert their incompatibility with mine on this topic.
 
#34
Interesting (though of course that's a horrific study, which shouldn't have been allowed in the first place).....We seem to be in the same existential situation as those poor puppies - but the 'scientist(s)' who is/are making experiments on us is/are hidden behind the Veil.
But what is missing here is that here are two extremes that are rare in reality. What we can learn is that an excessive expression of kindness or harshness will deliver no good. Any decent book on rating puppies will insist that they need affection and boundaries. And that is true for humans. Mental/emotional illness arises from trauma induced by excess, but we are not in the habit of seeing excessive laxity as being traumatic - yet.
 
#35
Its bad metaphysics as well.
Yes, yes, yes. If anyone doubts that contemporary Gnosticism is bad metaphysics, they should do some reading over the last two thousands years' worth of writing on Neo-Platonism / Gnosticism / Hermeticism / the better strands of Abrahamic theology and notice the difference - one is rigorous, thought provoking, expansive and systematic (if not necessarily true), and the other just isn't.
which shouldn't have been allowed in the first place
Well, quite.

@AryaS

My problem with conspiracy culture is its tendency to devolve into unbridled paranoia. Now, don't get me wrong, paranoia can be a valid response to reality, but it does have a shocking tendency to end in a morass of half-truths, 1 + 1 = 7 thinking, patchy evidence, and universal suspicion. It's also completely impossible to refute. For example, I could assert that you, AryaS, are, in fact, not a human being but an AI algorithm. No matter what supporting evidence you provided (official documents, photo's, letters from friends and family, etc.) I could still claim the entire thing as a vast conspiracy with multiple bad actors.

Another example: This forum's own K9 posts a lot of UFO videos.... if I remember correctly she has a background in the military. So, are we to surmise that she is a disinfo agent spreading propaganda? Should we assume all the videos she posts are calculatedly designed to lead us away from the truth? Or is she double bluffing? Perhaps the videos she posts do point to the truth, but her history in the military is designed to cast doubt on them?

Do you get the point I'm trying to make?

Anyway, why couldn't conspiracy theories themselves be disinfo psy-ops designed to keep people so busy staring down rabbit holes they forgo the one thing that does actually bring change - political organising?

Really, I was turned off the whole conspiracy worldview when a popular 'alternate' theory just happened to coincide with a topic I know quite a lot about. It was a genuine shock to see how even a moderate amount of specialist knowledge made it incredibly easy to poke insurmountably huge holes in a theory that was based on nothing more than misrepresentation and stating that because A was true, B was also necessarily true.
 
#36
Really, I was turned off the whole conspiracy worldview when a popular 'alternate' theory just happened to coincide with a topic I know quite a lot about. It was a genuine shock to see how even a moderate amount of specialist knowledge made it incredibly easy to poke insurmountably huge holes in a theory that was based on nothing more than misrepresentation and stating that because A was true, B was also necessarily true.
Come on, don’t be shy. Which CT do you mean? :)
 
#37
Have you ever seen the show Altered Carbon on Netflix? It's a sci-fi show about being able to put your consciousness into different physical bodies (called sleeves?). In that show, the immortality technology is mostly available to the "elite" (and their minions), and the "elite" get their jollies by raping/beating up/torturing and ultimately killing prostitutes (with the promise to the poor prostitute that they'll get a new sleeve/body after they allow themselves to be so tortured and killed). Why would this be the "pleasure" of a normal functioning human being at any socio-economic level? Yet, the creators of this show recognized it as something someone with enough money/power might ultimately find pleasurable. It doesn't touch too much on the pedophilia aspect -- but it's implied there as well. Perhaps once you have all the money and power in the world, healthy normal,consensual adult sexual relationships cease to satisfy. Read the Marquis de Sade for more.
Perhaps it is worth remembering that this was a show - its purpose was not to expose reality, but attract an audience.
I don't know the end game. But I do know that denying this is actually happening -- and more often than you think at those levels -- does nothing to make it stop. Why is it that every time I raise something about this topic, Silence, that you demand to know if "everyone" is involved? If "everyone" is not involved, does that make you sleep better at night? What is it you are trying to ascertain by this constant line of questioning?
Well this seems to reduce to an argument that anything someone can imagine - however depraved and disgusting - must be happening, and we are just burying our heads in the sand to deny it!

However, I don't deny that some pretty awful things do happen, and I dare say a significant number of politicians end up being blackmailed about sexual matters - and this may have helped to maintain "the swamp" in the US.
Well, most of these are basically crowd control technologies - and if the state was otherwise benign, controlling crowds with sound might be a lot more humane than using rubber bullets or tear gas (not to mention real bullets).

Suppose a country used one of these technologies to thwart a large crowd of people from crossing the border illegally. Depending on your point of view, you might argue that they should be allowed to enter regardless, but the means of stopping them would not be the issue.

I guess the ability to fake videos and photographs has been with us for some time. It could become a serious problem, but it is the price we pay for living in a digital world. I would say it is not used often (yet) because I am not aware of anyone complaining that this trick has been used on them - not even Trump!

David
 
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#38
No Exaggeration. I have been listening to Skeptiko for three years, and this was one of the best interviews Alex has done.

No recitation of tired old UFO stories. No dancing around hard questions by the guest. Top Level stuff. Thank you Alex!

Jasun Horsley appears to be one of the best-educated Conspiracy Researchers I have run across. I can't believe I never heard of this guy before.

His podcast is dead, but I will dig into his archives and put his blog into my RSS feed reader.

https://auticulture.com/blog/feed/

https://auticulture.com/multimedia/podcast-archive/

Anyone know which is his best book?... https://www.amazon.com/Jasun-Horsley/e/B001HCY3W6

Any suggestions appreciated!
 
#40
If he buys that, I'm beginning to think he's buying/putting out all sorts of suspect stuff.
I give most "consciousness researchers" a pass on not knowing AGW is a scam.

A person must invest a fair amount of valuable research time to methodically disassemble the disinformation in order to learn this fact. If one's life is dedicated to some esoteric metaphysical or arcane religious study, it's acceptable to just trust whatever the Experts in your peer group tell you.

If however one's area of research involves history and politics, there is no excuse for not knowing, and even worse for pretending not to know.
 
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