Jim Marrs is not a Scientologist |340|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Alex

    Alex New

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    Jim Marrs is not a Scientologist |340|
    by Alex Tsakiris | Feb 14 | Skepticism

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    Jim Marrs is a top-notch investigative journalist, so what’s he doing promoting L. Ron Hubbard’s Battlefield Earth?
    [​IMG]

    photo by: Galaxy Press
    On this episode of Skeptiko…

    Alex Tsakiris: There are a lot of people scratching their heads saying, “What the heck is Jim Marrs doing getting in bed with those Scientologists?”

    Jim Marrs: I am not a Scientologist, and I’m not going to be a Scientologist.

    (re Jim’s still evolving investigation of the John F. Kennedy assassination)

    Jim Marrs: I get people all the time that say, “Will we ever know the truth about the Kennedy assassination?” and I try to explain to them that that’s not really what they’re asking. What they’re truly asking is, “Will there come a day when some government official will get up at a press conference, before all of the mass media, and say, “Okay, okay, alright, here, we’ve lied to you for 70 years but here’s the real truth, and we’re going to lay it all out here,” and no, that ain’t going to happen.

    (re Jim’s investigation of the U.S. psychic spying program)

    Alex Tsakiris: One thing that kind of irks me is, the narrative that gets played out is, “Oh, this was all just kind of normal defense intelligence stuff… we had to do it because them darn Russkies were doing it, and we had to have a leg-up on them,” which there is some truth to, I mean, clearly the Russians were involved in this, but it does seem also like we were using that as an excuse.

    Jim Marrs: Yeah absolutely, that’s a lot of facile rationalization. I think the reality of it was, it was the people who actually knew what was going on and saw the positive results from the remote viewing. I mean, who doesn’t want somebody around who can tell them what’s happening on the other side of the world?
     
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  2. Far.From.Here

    Far.From.Here New

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    Ouch. That was uncomfortable.
     
  3. E.Flowers

    E.Flowers New

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    Are there any podcasts with consciousness as their main topic coming up in the near future?
     
  4. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    That was a fascinating interview, and I have a few thoughts.

    If remote viewing works even a fraction as well as people say, it has to be in use within the military all over the place.

    The idea that we are all subject to some sort of mind control, and it sends a few people crazy. I think that is an idea that will stay with me for a long time, but I don't know about that being responsible for school shootings - were rapid firing weapons readily available back in the 50's?

    One nugget from Jim's website that really rings true: Nixon invented the war on drugs as a way to control anti-war movements!

    One thing that I don't understand, is why people like Jim remain able to publish their stuff.

    @E.Flowers I'd say that this one has a serious consciousness component.

    David
     
  5. E.Flowers

    E.Flowers New

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    It does have some interesting segments, but its mixed with a lot of material. I was hoping to hear from someone like Parnia or Campbell soon.
     
  6. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Everything is consciousness.

    ...as a metaphor.
     
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  7. Mind control has been elevated to a fine art in our society.

    One way people are controlled is by political news. The reality we see on video or read about that is called "news" is vastly different from the reality of our everyday lives. Politicians and journalists are professional liars who sell hate and fear for personal gain. But so many people are influenced by the fake realty, the news reality, and they fall for the "warfare illusion" that we are at war with our neighbors who voted for a different party or a different candidate. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

    The way I resist this is that whenever I notice a news story creating an emotional reaction I become suspicious. They try to use fear and hate to control us. It changes how we relate to reality including how we relate to other people. From a spiritual point of view we know that the "truth" the ultimate reality, is based on love and tolearance and forgiveness. Anything that separates us from that mind set is leading us astray. (This doesn't mean we should ignore problems, it means we should approach problems with equanimity not anger.)

    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2016/01/jonathan-haidts-constructive-approach.html
    A Constructive Approach to Bridging the Conservative / Liberal Divide​


    More forms of mind control:

    http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threa...bout-almost-everything.1505/page-5#post-81467
    ... many controversies are skewed to one side by moneyed interests who use media and internet savvy to create a false reality that fools most people including doctors and scientists who then spread the misinformation
    http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/the-donald-trump-thread.3146/page-156#post-107079
    A lot of the crazyness of these weird times we are living in, by the left and the right, is caused by cynical manipulation of the media, to make the opposition react in ways that make it look bad and to make supporters more emotionally involved in the cause.​

    The internet is controlling your brain with alert notifications.
    http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threa...ing-your-brain-with-alert-notifications.2086/
     
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  8. Michael Larkin

    Michael Larkin Member

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    Alex's question at the end of the interview:

    What do you make of the connection between scientology and what military intelligence was doing in looking into the mind?
     
  9. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    I have no idea... is there a Scientology bible somewhere that will give me a primary source full explanation of their religion? All I've ever heard about Scientology is that they're a creepy cult that persecutes detractors and defectors and L. Ron Hubbard started the religion as a cynical bid to control people and make money. Of course, like Jim Marrs points out, the same could be said and has been said of many prominent religions and there's good and bad apples in every institution.

    This was a great interview!
     
  10. Alex

    Alex New

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    Jim Marrs is the real deal... worthy of admiration. After the interview we had a chat during which he said, "I get it... you had to ask... I would have if I were you."
     
  11. Alex

    Alex New

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    I think Parnia is great, and I reference his work all the time, but I'm not sure I have a lot to ask. also not sure he'd be all that excited to do another interview with me :) that said, I wouldn't change anything about the first interview. while I understand his need to play it safe with the scientific/medical establishment, I think his "probably a trick of the mind" thing was a big misstep back then.

    I have some plans for the simulation hypothesis stuff :)
     
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  12. Alex

    Alex New

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    totally agree... then again, the Stargate guys consistently point out how shortsighted and politicized these military guys can be. more on next episode.
     
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  13. K9!

    K9! New

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    Alex, your guest lost a lot of credibility when he tried to compare Hubbard to some of the truly great science fiction writers. Battleship Earth sucks. I know that I'm being harsh, but it's a terrible book.
     
  14. Maggie Cox

    Maggie Cox Member

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    Over 50 years ago I had a friend who was into Scientology, it took a lot of his money before he finally realised that he was being conned. I haven't heard anything good, and have watched a very concerning tv programme about the organisation and the control it has over its members. I agree with K9! and I wondered about the rest of the interview once I heard Jim Marks views on Scientology.
     
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  15. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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    I liked the film :)
     
  16. Far.From.Here

    Far.From.Here New

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    Here is my general statement and below are the results of about 10 minutes of poking around looking at Mars' claims on Hubbard.

    My gut is that Scientology was looking for someone with real credibility among the "2nd Matrix" folks. Shills like Alex Jones have an audience, but his type doesn't have the credibility that Jim Mars does. Mars appears to be engaged in typical apologist behavior when it comes to Scientology. The only way for Mars to not be stained by this activity would be full disclosure. How much is he making? How many appearances has he made where he mentions Scientology?

    It is really strange to see Mars in the role of a sales man for Scientology. Obviously money is behind it. The question is how much?

    I remember the outrage when IANDS was being "infiltrated" by the evil Eckankar group. This issue is related. Here we have someone who is well respected shilling for an organization that really appears to be very dirty.

    My other issue was that Mars seemed to be playing dumb. Oh, Scientology doesn't appear that bad to me. They seem like nice people. The man who spent his life digging deeper than anyone on key issues apparently has a surface understanding of one of the most controversial organizations of the 20th century?

    My other issue is that Alex really soft-balled it. Now I feel like Alex is kind of dirty because of it. The whole thing left me really puzzled.

    -------------------------------

    Mars says L RON Hubbard was quite a guy.

    Mars says In the 1940s/1950s he was right up there with A C Clarke, Bradbury and Asimov.

    My gut feeling is that that statement is simply wrong. Hubbard appears on zero lists of must read science fiction. He did have some popular science fiction during those years, but I don't hear anyone other than Mars saying these writings hold up to the test of time like the masters of Science Fiction.

    See here how Scientologists inflate sales of his books in later years.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/la-scientology062890-story.html

    ==========

    Mars says Scientologists were infultrating the govt and revealing corruption.

    That sounds like a whitewash of Operation Snow White.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

    One example of Scientology viciously attacking an individual.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

    According to Mars, Scientology and the gov't battle and eventually the IRS grants tax exempt status. The story appears to be headier than that:

    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/timeline.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  17. K9!

    K9! New

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    But why would he hurt his credibility to use his reputation to push their merchandise? From now on when I notice that he is a guest on a show, I'm going to see it as a paid advertisement for a really questionable product rather than a serious interview with a journalist. Why would anyone want to tune in for a Scientology infomercial?
     
  18. E.Flowers

    E.Flowers New

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    The AWARE II study is up in May and he was all over the news back a few months ago. I agree that comment was unfortunate, but I don't think that it was really directed towards this audience, but served more as some sort of defense mechanism to avoid being called "woo woo" or something like that. He is, after all, operating in a very difficult market for this kind of thing (the heavily skeptical U.K.). In last December he was interviewed in public radio and discussed the stance that consciousness' "source" may not be the brain with relative normalcy (maybe he already secured the funds for the final stages of AWARE II?), which is a posture that he had prodded in his book before. Whether saying that -just a few months before the project is due- points towards them getting a hit, I don't know... But at least it points to them not having a patient that went into an OBE and missed a target.

    I think of Parnia as a "secret" proponent, he is cautious as hell and puts his career first, but every once in a while there are these blurbs that reveal what is in his mind.

    I'm happy to learn that we are delving back into the VR stuff soon, that particular field is getting increasingly hot and systematically becoming more "mainstream". The proposed experiments are also a welcome sight that could very well have repercussions about the way the public sees consciousness if successful.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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  19. Alex

    Alex New

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    I agree with you... I think it was a big misstep on his part. I'm also surprised he didn't do more research into this controversial group before taking the deal.
     
  20. K9!

    K9! New

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    I think a more appropriate question might be:

    Is Jim Marrs a Scientologist or just a useful Wog?

    https://scientologymoneyproject.com/tag/jim-marrs/
     
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