Jim Marrs is not a Scientologist |340|

#42
I enjoy listening to Jim Marrs, entertaining for sure. But his 'they're nice people' attitude towards the Scientologists is kind of cringeworthy to me. I was raised in a religion that is perhaps just one rung down from it, Mormonism. Many Mormons are very nice people, my family are very nice people. But being raised in a religion that DEMANDS your money, time, strict obedience, and absolute loyalty is scary. I know, I lived it growing up hard-core mormon. I'm sure there are many nice Scientologists, but I don't want to get very close them.

I'm also gay, and being gay in a cult-ish environment that demonizes you is SCARY. All the while I was being put through one of those so-called pray-the-gay-away programs in my early 20s, meeting in Mormon church houses, meeting with the leaders in the church's headquarters, they had smiles on their face. But it was a thoroughly destructive and awful experience.

I actually became interested in NDE's (and is why I follow Skeptiko) because I had to figure out if the religious fear-mongering was correct, or if it was nonsense. When I saw that a lot of people were reporting experiences that were transcendent, uplifting, loving and beautiful, I realized there was a huge disconnect between the 'loving' environment I was raised in and what seemed to be the actual larger reality of existence.
Hi Mr. C... I defiantly get where yr coming from. I think Mormons often get a free pass -- they're clearly using a lot of cult techniques... worse yet, some weird cultish stuff seems baked into the DNA.

then again, I've made a couple of Mormon friends thru the show and found them to be not only "nice" but insightful about this stuff. so, I get where they're coming from too: community... common values... and some freedom to navigate around some of the bad stuff. personally, I'd never make that deal with the devil, but I understand why some people do.

I think Scientology is couple steps further down the dark path... they're a freak'n cult.
 
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#43
IMO, Democrats and Republicans are as bad as one another.
agreed... I honestly don't understand people who identify as being Left/Right/Progressive/Conservative... I mean, that's not even a conversation I'm willing to waste time on (except for Rick Archer :)).

Think Obama was an exception? Read this Guardian article here: remember that the Guardian is a lefty newspaper.
Yeah, Obama brought us more wars than ever before, a double-down on the Patriot Act, crushing of whistleblowers, and more torture than ever before. I never seen a more complete betrayal of what stood for as a candidate. And I voted for the guy... at least the first time.

I agree that the reason Hillary didn't get in was in part because so many people, even Democrats, disliked her.
the ray of hope I cling to is that Truthers defeated Hillary (BTW I voted for her too... then, I learned about Pizzagate).
 
#44
Hey, I didn't wish for Trump; I just didn't wish for Hillary, and as it turned out, Trump won because the Republicans didn't manage to come up with anyone better who wasn't part of the establishment. I'll admit to a tiny amount of schadenfreude, but that's just the devil in me...;)
I think the Republicans won because despite not wanting to do so, they went with the candidate who was getting votes. The Democrats were never going with Sanders no matter how popular he was. Hillary was getting the nomination from the start, and that clearly upset a lot of people who felt like their voice was not being heard. The Democrats did this to themselves by not putting forward the candidate people were asking for.
 
#46
. It is Karma, of that I feel certain, without really knowing what karma is.
I think its a koan. There are different types of koans but one type is a story or riddle that tests the student because it tends to lead people into thinking in a dualistic way (good/bad, winning/losing, right/wrong). An advanced student will not be fooled by the koan. When the mind is in a state of non-attachment, dualistic thinking ceases.

Life is a koan.
 
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#49
Gosh. Hmm. I was right on board with this interview, right up to the point that this guy started espousing his political views. Hillary=Socialism, and Trump=Everything Our Founding Fathers Envisioned For Our Great Country. Are those pearls of wisdom from his top-notch investigative reporting? Or does the investigative journalism come in with his statement about all of the illegal voting in the last election? For someone who claims we're all mind controlled by the "liberal" media he sounds an awful lot like that other large non-liberal media outlet. First of all, let me tell you why Hillary didn't win the election, it had absolutely nothing to do with our rejection of the "march towards socialism" and everything to do with the fact that...Everybody hates Hillary Clinton! Even us Socialist Democrats didn't like her. Trump won because he ran against the absolute only person he could beat. Period.

And, unfortunately, because I listened to this interview on my radio instead of Skype, I was unable to witness the copious amount of drool coming out of Alex's mouth as he gushed all over this meatball.

This interview would have been better served on a ham radio.

What the hell has happened to this show? If fucking sucks now.

Over and out.
So, you were "right on board with this interview"... right on board with the idea that a shadow government executed a coup d'etat in order seize power from JFK. and you're right on board with the idea that elements of this shadow government have basically been in control (including both Republicans and Democrats) since then. and you're "right on board" with the idea that 9-11 was an inside job perpetrated by elements of this shadow globalist force. So, you're on board with what Jim Marrs has to say about all that, but you just can't bear the part about Trump v. Hillary.

Sounds more like classic trolling.
 
#50
then again, I've made a couple of Mormon friends thru the show and found them to be not only "nice" but insightful about this stuff. so, I get where they're coming from too: community... common values... and some freedom to navigate around some of the bad stuff. personally, I'd never make that deal with the devil, but I understand why some people do.
Yeah, I very much agree, there are a lot of very good insightful people in Mormonism. I don't want to diminish those people, my admittedly somewhat knee-jerk initial post probably came off that way. My own upbringing gave me a unique experience in understanding the 'from within' experience of this particular church. I think the fact that I'm gay was specifically the thing that helped me wake up from it because I didn't fit from the get go.

It's funny because now I have a sense that there probably is a god or god force, whatever you want to call it, thanks to the widespread reporting through NDEs. Many people who leave the LDS church end up going to the opposite end and become materialistic athiests and I also tend to recoil from that also, it's why I've appreciated Skeptiko so much.

So now I'm in this odd position where I share similar beliefs with my parents to a degree, I just don't believe I have to pay a church 10% of my income to be in the good graces of that higher power.

I also actually credit mormonism with helping me to be open to other possibilities like alien contact, whatever that may actually end up being. Mormon theology puts forward that there are other planets with other 'children of god' populations. In fact Mormonism has among its more esoteric teachings that god lives on a 'celestial' planet called Kolob (not kidding). I don't know what the alien abduction thing is all about, it's likely connected to all this in some way, but I do credit Mormonism with helping me open to it.
 
#51
Yeah, I very much agree, there are a lot of very good insightful people in Mormonism. I don't want to diminish those people, my admittedly somewhat knee-jerk initial post probably came off that way. My own upbringing gave me a unique experience in understanding the 'from within' experience of this particular church. I think the fact that I'm gay was specifically the thing that helped me wake up from it because I didn't fit from the get go.

It's funny because now I have a sense that there probably is a god or god force, whatever you want to call it, thanks to the widespread reporting through NDEs. Many people who leave the LDS church end up going to the opposite end and become materialistic athiests and I also tend to recoil from that also, it's why I've appreciated Skeptiko so much.

So now I'm in this odd position where I share similar beliefs with my parents to a degree, I just don't believe I have to pay a church 10% of my income to be in the good graces of that higher power.

I also actually credit mormonism with helping me to be open to other possibilities like alien contact, whatever that may actually end up being. Mormon theology puts forward that there are other planets with other 'children of god' populations. In fact Mormonism has among its more esoteric teachings that god lives on a 'celestial' planet called Kolob (not kidding). I don't know what the alien abduction thing is all about, it's likely connected to all this in some way, but I do credit Mormonism with helping me open to it.
it's cool that you can see the other side of Mormonism. I can't imagine living thru the "pray you're gay away" stuff. I mean, when you step back it just looks crazy... who would choose such a God?
 
#54
I enjoy listening to Jim Marrs, entertaining for sure. But his 'they're nice people' attitude towards the Scientologists is kind of cringeworthy to me. I was raised in a religion that is perhaps just one rung down from it, Mormonism.
This was my reaction as well. I immediately thought of Mormonism and the folks I have known who were "really nice people" (I lived in Cedar City for a while.)
 
#56
Great interview. Glad to see you go after him, and get more skeptikal than you are with many of your guests. But puhleeze he is being so obvious! Scientology IS a military mind control program. End of story. Hubbard was in Naval Intelligence, the oldest of all intelligence agencies. And Scientology is finally suffering serious credibility issues, so bring in deep cover Marrs to shore it up as much as possible. How can he not know it is based on child abuse and mind control? I urge everyone to listen to Leah Remini on the Joe Rogan podcast from a couple weeks ago. MIND BLOWING. The occult and military intelligence as a unit go back to John Dee and Queen Elizabeth, Walsingham and Francis Bacon. Hubbard was a Crowleyite and Crowley was a MI6 agent and a master of mind control. Agent 666. All from England, the country that has invaded 188 other countries.

It is telling that the conspiracy crowd was heavily weighted and instructed to be for Trump. C'mon give me a break. Why not vote for Jill Stein? She campaigned on opening 9-11 up for reinvestigation. The orange guy is so obviously a huckster. i can see rubes in Wisconsin and some hard up white folks easily falling for it....but people who claim knowledge of the deep state to actually support this orange buffoon is deeply suspicious.

The best way to control the opposition is to lead it. Marrs has outed himself. All conspiracyites who actually support Trump have outed themselves.

Now to go way out there. My take is that 'they' are creating a new world religion based on science with aliens as the gods. It will unify the world. This end game is really about using the aliens. You need a religion to control the masses. That's rule number one. Science is the destroyer of religion, that was really the goal of the Royal Society. So you have to use science as the foundation of a new religion. Aliens will prove "Science". They will have to be hologrammed because they do not exist. Scientism already has the form and shape of a religion with evolution and the big bang as it's founding principles. Especially since evolution is so obviously Not True. I wish Alex would do a show with some of the leading demolishers of Darwinism. It's ripe and ready to fall.
Berlinski on evolution. Must see
Leah Remini on Joe Rogan. Unbelievable: http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/leah-remini
peace
 
#57
Great interview. Glad to see you go after him, and get more skeptikal than you are with many of your guests. But puhleeze he is being so obvious! Scientology IS a military mind control program. End of story. Hubbard was in Naval Intelligence, the oldest of all intelligence agencies. And Scientology is finally suffering serious credibility issues, so bring in deep cover Marrs to shore it up as much as possible. How can he not know it is based on child abuse and mind control? I urge everyone to listen to Leah Remini on the Joe Rogan podcast from a couple weeks ago. MIND BLOWING. The occult and military intelligence as a unit go back to John Dee and Queen Elizabeth, Walsingham and Francis Bacon. Hubbard was a Crowleyite and Crowley was a MI6 agent and a master of mind control. Agent 666. All from England, the country that has invaded 188 other countries.

It is telling that the conspiracy crowd was heavily weighted and instructed to be for Trump. C'mon give me a break. Why not vote for Jill Stein? She campaigned on opening 9-11 up for reinvestigation. The orange guy is so obviously a huckster. i can see rubes in Wisconsin and some hard up white folks easily falling for it....but people who claim knowledge of the deep state to actually support this orange buffoon is deeply suspicious.

The best way to control the opposition is to lead it. Marrs has outed himself. All conspiracyites who actually support Trump have outed themselves.

Now to go way out there. My take is that 'they' are creating a new world religion based on science with aliens as the gods. It will unify the world. This end game is really about using the aliens. You need a religion to control the masses. That's rule number one. Science is the destroyer of religion, that was really the goal of the Royal Society. So you have to use science as the foundation of a new religion. Aliens will prove "Science". They will have to be hologrammed because they do not exist. Scientism already has the form and shape of a religion with evolution and the big bang as it's founding principles. Especially since evolution is so obviously Not True. I wish Alex would do a show with some of the leading demolishers of Darwinism. It's ripe and ready to fall.
Berlinski on evolution. Must see
Leah Remini on Joe Rogan. Unbelievable: http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/leah-remini
peace
As I read your post, I found myself flipping repeatedly between agreeing with you, and disagreeing! For example,

I agree with you about Scientology (though I have not explored this cult in any depth), and I love your evolution video - Berlinski deserves a lot of exposure because he absolutely hits the roots of the problems with evolution.

On the other hand, Jill Stein was never going to attract the mass vote that Donald Trump managed - so voting for her would have been really half a vote for Hillary Clinton - a woman who seemed hell bent on a confrontation with Russia in Syria.

I have created a new thread to discuss your video.

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/an-amazing-video-about-evolution.3633/

David
 
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#58
But puhleeze he is being so obvious! Scientology IS a military mind control program. End of story.
interesting... one (of many) new bit of info for me was L. Ron Hubbard's battle with military intelligence over this "technology." what do you make of history?
http://www.wanttoknow.info/mind_control/scientology_remote_viewing


Hubbard was in Naval Intelligence, the oldest of all intelligence agencies.
and "sheep dipped" as I discovered... which only adds to the intruige about his sketchy past in military intelligence.

And Scientology is finally suffering serious credibility issues, so bring in deep cover Marrs to shore it up as much as possible.
yes, strange... keep wondering if I got all of the story here.

How can he not know it is based on child abuse and mind control?
does seem out of character, then again, I'm constantly amazed by the blind spots we all seem to develop. my gut feeling is that Marrs has merely developed such a blind spot re Scientology... but who knows?

I urge everyone to listen to Leah Remini on the Joe Rogan podcast from a couple weeks ago.
thx for the nudge... have had it queued up for a couple of weeks.

The occult and military intelligence as a unit go back to John Dee and Queen Elizabeth
facinating history:

Hubbard was a Crowleyite and Crowley was a MI6 agent and a master of mind control. Agent 666. All from England, the country that has invaded 188 other countries.
I'd like to know more about this connection. do you have any good links to share?

It is telling that the conspiracy crowd was heavily weighted and instructed to be for Trump. C'mon give me a break. Why not vote for Jill Stein? She campaigned on opening 9-11 up for reinvestigation. The orange guy is so obviously a huckster. i can see rubes in Wisconsin and some hard up white folks easily falling for it....but people who claim knowledge of the deep state to actually support this orange buffoon is deeply suspicious.
I don't know... I see it much more like this:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...s-erupted-between-deep-state-and-donald-trump

Gordon White does a great job with this also:
https://runesoup.com/the-all-red-line/


I wish Alex would do a show with some of the leading demolishers of Darwinism.
I thought I did :)
http://skeptiko.com/247-roy-davies-exposes-darwin-plagiarism/
 
#60
Yes, but I think the current state of Darwinism is far more interesting.

One crucial difference between now and then, is that back then nobody knew what a gene consisted of -so the idea that there might be one or two genes for height (say) that would vary in small steps or even continuously was still possible. Now we know that genes are made of DNA, which is analogous to computer code, and supremely breakable!

An interview with David Berlinski or Stephen Meyer would be a real coup. However, Skeptiko is possibly too way out for them (!!), but it would be worth a try.

I feel the problems with evolutionary theory hit two Skeptiko issues - the problem with contemporary science, and the fact that any other explanation of evolution seems to require a (probably non-physical) intelligence.

David
 
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