Jim Marrs is not a Scientologist |340|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Feb 14, 2017.

  1. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    Perhaps, but when immoral scum like the CIA and Wall Street are orchestrating both the destruction and re-construction, it's a safe bet what they are building is not for your benefit.
     
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  2. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    Sure, but have you listened to much of Alan Watts or Terrence McKenna? What was your opinion? I found that listening to them was extremely fun and interesting and even helpful to me as I reconstructed my own paradigm after stepping out of fundamentalist Christianity. I personally feel that fundamentalist Christianity helped me form some basic stable and powerful internal structures, and then I sort of outgrew literal interpretations and explored the mythical and mystical perspectives which yielded a new and better internal structure. The mystical and philosophical perspectives presented by Alan Watts and Terrence McKenna were somewhat new to the West, but are certainly not new to humanity. In my opinion, the joining of the best of the West and the best of the East can yield something even better than both.

    Here's a fascinating trialogue of Terrence McKenna, Ralph Abraham, and Rupert Sheldrake at the Esalen Institute:


    And Alan Watts:


    That on was long... here's a couple of short ones...



    Jan has identified some connections between these people and institutions with the CIA... okay, well what do we do with that? Does that make what they are saying wrong or evil or dangerous? I don't see it that way, (although liberating ideas can be dangerous) but Jan seems to jump to that conclusion based on the fact that these philosophies can be destructive... again I don't disagree, but perhaps the particular mode of thought that evolved in the West has become brittle and too rigid with its basis in materialism and the "billiard ball" metaphor for reality.

    In short, I think these people have some valid and powerful things to say that resonates with me and has personally benefited me (and others), so to hear Jan throw them all in the junk bin (and to do it an a pissy arrogant childish way) seems to me to discredit Jan's judgment. He's hyper-rational and having fallen in love with the trivium method (which is a great method) he has made an exceedingly rigid doctrine out of the process and lost connection with the heart.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2017
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  3. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    I believe we should integrate what Jan is uncovering into our understanding of how the world works.

    Once upon a time I trained to be a C.P.A., then later to be a government policy analysit. From that training I learned to used the concepts of Profit/Loss, Return on Investment, and Cost:Benefit Ratios. That’s how I evaluate things.

    Create a two-column table listing all the positive and negative outcomes which have resulted from the influence of Watts’ and McKenna’s philosophies.

    Does the Good column outweigh the Bad column?
     
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  4. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    I agree. His "brain" research database thing is pretty cool.

    Reducing something so complex to a binary categorization that applies to all people everywhere does not seem to be possible in my opinion.

    I would say the benefits for me personally having listened to and integrated the things these guys have said have been great and I don't know of any costs.

    But that is just me and I was already a very stable structured person when I came across these ideas, so the undoing of some structure was liberating with enough structure left over to avoid falling into the abyss of chaos. For a person who is already on the edge of chaos and has had no prior discipline or mental training, some of these ideas might not have a beneficial effect... and for example lead the person to drop acid and run around in public shouting "I am God!" in an insane manner.
     
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  5. Does he have any of this in written form with references? - Admittedly I may have missed the link if it was posted here.
     
  6. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    http://www.gnosticmedia.com/links/brain/

    I downloaded the Brain a few years ago before I really knew who any of these people were so it wasn't really relevant to me at the time. I should probably take a look at it again in the future when I get time again...

    I think he has sources cited therein connecting these people... just don't remember exactly what the connections were.
     
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  7. Thanks...does he have a text laid out with references rather than a forest of links?

    I was hoping he might have a document written in the style we'd expect from academic historians - seems like it's far too easy to come up with conspiracy theories for politics one doesn't like and then bury paltry evidence in a difficult to navigate/understand website design?
     
  8. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    I don't know of any other way.

    Try out the Trivium Method as a way of ordering your thinking and analysis. It's good.

    Grammar: What is.

    Logic: How things "that are" fit together and work.

    Rhetoric: How to employ the workings of "what is" to express yourself.

    Really do listen to the interviews listed here: http://www.triviumeducation.com

    The 3, 4, 5 Trivium is built into the Universe for a reason. It's for You.
     
  9. malf

    malf Member

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    Curious - do you see parallels in the anomaly mining of conspiracy theorists and how "proponents" try to assert materialism as nothing more than nonsense?
     
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  10. Not at all. In fact the "connect the supposedly obvious dots" gamified reward structure that I notice in conspiracy theory websites follows a similar structure to materialist/mechanistic "skeptics" who we've seen will pretend to speak with scientific authority but unravel when asked basic science/math questions.

    Look how the board "skeptics" were undone by my simple questions all centering around the inquiry- "Is there any reason that I should believe you know what you're talking about with respect to science or math?". Even I was surprised by the churlishness and I've been exposing how "skepticism" is a fanatical religion for some time.
     
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  11. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    As I said, I am a big fan of the Trivium method and if I do have kids, I hope to teach them with it.

    But can you classify a baseball bat as either good or bad? It's just a tool. Sometimes ideas and metaphors about reality are just tools that can be used for good or evil depending on the context.

    Now when you systematize ideas into an ideology and then into an institution and then observe how that operates in certain contexts, it might then be easier to do the kind of cost/benefit analysis you're talking about.
     
  12. Arouet

    Arouet Member

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    Is that what you asked. I thought it was whether they had taken certain STEM degrees? The way you put it here is much more reasonable! Well done!
     
  13. I corrected you at least once, IIRC it was multiple times.

    Nice try at lying.
     
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  14. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    All I can say is download his "brain" and play around with it. My recollection of it is that it was like an encyclopedia with many primary sources... but like I said it's been a few years.
     
  15. Far.From.Here

    Far.From.Here New

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    LOL. I can't even imagine the level of frustration that is required to raise the ire of the Sci.
     
  16. Heh, I just like to call it like I see it after a point. Gabriel was able to do it with that splash of English charm but I only have my American ugliness. :)
     
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  17. Arouet

    Arouet Member

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    You reframed it? I don't recall. Well, what's important is that you've dropped the silly STEM thing and are now posing a reasonable question. I don't imagine anyone would object to the way you put it now. I certainly wouldn't. Again, well done.
     
  18. The question was framed this way either from the beginning or within a few posts of clarification.

    Since this is a roundabout way of accusing me of something, feel free to provide some evidence for the claim that I only just reframed it. I'm dropping this now since it has nothing to do with this show thread.
     
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  19. Arouet

    Arouet Member

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    It really doesn't matter when. I'm glad we've resolved this issue and understand one another. That's a positive step.
     
  20. E.Flowers

    E.Flowers New

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    There was a British government site for the project that is now down. AFAIK, Ben Williams is probably the only source out there dedicated exclusively to AWARE II. But at the moment, he seems to be waiting for a page hosted by Parnia's workplace to go online.

    Don't quote me on this, but I think that the actual recruitment stage of AWARE I ended on schedule. I recall that the part that took ages was writing the academic paper and having it accepted for peer review... I may be wrong (???), since back then my knowledge of -and hence interest in- NDEs was more superficial.

    Anyways, the part that is supposed to end in May is the recruitment stage. The analysis and submission process should take several months after that.
     
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