Joy Lin, From Engineer to Spirit Medium |347|

#1
Joy Lin, From Engineer to Spirit Medium |347|
by Alex Tsakiris | May 2 | Consciousness Science

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Joy Lin didn’t go looking for spirit communication, but when they came she answered.

photo by: Skeptiko
Welcome to Skeptiko, where we explore controversial science and spirituality, with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host Alex Tsakiris and on today’s episode, mediumistic, healer, channeler, communicator, and life-coach Joy Lin is joining me.

Now, a quick backstory here. I originally heard about Joy through her interview about a year ago on Mysterious Universe, there’s a link in the show notes. It’s a fantastic interview. It tells the story of Joy who was a very well-educated engineer who suddenly and dramatically started having these experiences with spirits. So, she thinks she’s going crazy, goes through all the conventional kind of medical explanations and ultimately winds up with a Reiki healer who says, “No I’m sorry, it’s not that, it’s just that you’re connected now and you’ve got to deal with it.” And she has dealt with it in a pretty amazing way.

Now, I know Joy because I contacted her, and I tell the story later in the interview, to do a healing for me, because I was going through a health issue and I decided that, while I was at the same time doing conventional therapy (which was a disaster by the way) I would also seek alternative treatments of various kinds, including Joy, and while I can’t say her healing, per se, changed anything for me, the intuitive information that she brought through in the healing was dramatically profound and I said, “Wow, you’re the real deal, I have to have you on Skeptiko, because there’s all these issues that keep coming up about what’s really going on with mediumship, what’s really going on with healing, what’s really going on with good and evil and these other realms?” And she has some incredible stories about that by the way, very chilling, if you will, so all that stuff got wrapped into this interview. It was a long discussion, she was here in the studio, we just talked, conversationally, and I had to kind of try and edit it into something meaningful and I hope you enjoy it. It’s about an hour long and it was really cool having here in the studio. Here’s my dialog with Joy Lin.
 
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what do you make of the evil spirits joy was talking to to do her bidding are they out there do we have to worry about them or can we do what thou wilt
I think this is two separate issues. There are "evil" (ignorant / undeveloped) spirits are out there and you deal with them at your own risk.

From my web site:
"You can never gain any benefit to yourself by interacting with selfish spirits. Such spirits may promise you some benefit, but being selfish, they will not deliver on their promise though they will use you for their own purposes which may leave you permanently under their influence doing things that are harmful to yourself and other people."
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/natural_mediumship#natural_warning
One should be very careful before undertaking these exercises. You should read the chapter Further Adventures of a Student Medium, and my blog posts How to Get Rid of Spirits and What to do if You Start Developing Psychic Abilities and the books "Confessions of a Psychic" by Susy Smith and "Thirty Years Among the Dead" by Carl Wickland first to learn about some of the risks involved. These books should scare you. After a while the fear will subside and rational caution will remain.

You should not undertake the study of mediumship if you abuse addictive drugs or alcohol, or if you are involved in activities that are harmful to other people, or if you are suffering from emotional or mental illnesses. You should only undertake the study of mediumship if your intention is to act in the service of God and humankind. You should understand that the purpose of psychic development is to advance the spiritual development of yourself and others. Like attracts like, and any type of selfish behavior or selfish motivation for gain or renown you have in learning to communicate with spirits will attract spirits that are also selfish. You can never gain any benefit to yourself by interacting with selfish spirits. Such spirits may promise you some benefit, but being selfish, they will not deliver on their promise though they will use you for their own purposes which may leave you permanently under their influence doing things that are harmful to yourself and other people.

If you are certain that your motivation is pure, you may begin these exercises.
(there are links in the original)

If you believe in "do what thou wilt" you should also understand the law of karma and how it affects your experience in the afterlife and reincarnation. More below ...


Joy Lin: ... We are living a human experience, we are trying to ‘survive’, get ahead and trying to live in this reality and sometimes escape to another realm or our true-self or our soul-self and having that balance, but it’s the experience the soul wants to have and if the soul or the egos says, you know, “I want to get ahead, I want to be rich, blah, blah, blah, how can you help me in my career?” It’s one of the human survival, but during that course of that journey to, “I want to make money, to find love,” the lessons the soul learns will be what it needs to develop spiritually.
This how most people get from life what they came here for. You don't have to do anything. Life does it to you. How else could it be that billions come here but few are spiritual seekers?

Alex Tsakiris: This is when I think shut up and calculate gets really dangerous.
Very good point. Some scientists (people) should avoid studying spiritual phenomena because their attitude toward "evil" can get them into trouble. Materialist scientists who engaged in psychical research got a different flavor of phenomena than those who had a spiritual bent. They only fooled themselves when hey said it was because pk was at the root of the phenomena and spiritual investigators got what they believed they would get.

Alex Tsakiris: ... I love to get that out there, because you always have to factor that in and we now have to offer some kind of explanation, some kind of topology for what the extended realm looks like that incorporates that into it. And that’s what I hate, when we just gloss over it and say, “Well, we’re all evolving and eventually we’ll get to the same place.” You know what? I’d like to avoid going down that dark, demonic alley for a few lifetimes. I think I should avoid doing that. I think I will be happier if I do that. Is that a choice that I can constructively make, or is it, “Hey, wherever your path is, that’s it.” I don’t know.
Regarding topology, evidental mediums and NDErs tend to support the view that in the afterlife you go to a region that fits your mental state along with like minded people. People who are nasty, who like being nasty, and who want to do more nasty things go to a place with others of like mind where they interact. But there are people who will incarnate and, according to plan, be an "offender" to help people who, according to plan, need to learn something from being a victim. It's not really possible for most of us to figure out who is who.

Livets Bog vol. 1, s. 28
http://www.martinus.dk/en/ttt/index.php
...
When the individual"s sense perception is so far advanced in its development that he is capable of experiencing as a realistic fact that - everything is very good - by then the revelation of the Eternal Truth is completed, for indeed that experience could not exist without being identical with the actual experience of that same Truth's scientific basic analysis". In other words, the individual no longer lives with the old superstition or idea that something is evil. On the contrary, he experiences and understands that all the so-called evil - in a divine or cosmic understanding - constitutes just as indispensable a factor in promoting an individual's development, or the forming of consciousness, as the so-called good. And the good and the evil are thus considered identical in the divine basic analysis. Of course this does not mean that evil is also pleasant, but rather that, for the sufficiently advanced being, it will be considered just as much a blessing as good, and that these two realities can therefore only be analysed as expressing correspondingly the "unpleasant" good and the "pleasant" good.

Any seeker of Truth who has developed so far as to be able to experience and carry out the above analysis, solely by his own sense perception and without any theoretical knowledge learned from other people, has thus reached the end of the journey with regard to the revelation of the Eternal Truth or the basic analysis of life,...

When starting out, a student of Buddhism usually considers the purpose of the training to be to provide an end to the suffering caused by life's difficulties. But when he reaches a more advanced stage he considers that the purpose of life's difficulties are to help him advance in the training.

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/occasionally-i-post-something-to.html#misc_zen_practice
Shodo Harada Roshi is quoted at Man on Cloud Mountain Segment 4 at enlightenmentward.wordpress.com

That small narrow way in which I had been looking at my enlightenment, my thing to have to do. I have to do this for myself. That is what had been bothering me all along from the very beginning. Through that day on the mountain when I realized that there was no self to be bothered with it. I had been crushing myself and making myself miserable worrying about this problem of my enlightenment and realizing it for myself making my self come to a conclusion that was, in fact, found in the living of every single day. If I did nothing, if I didn’t even worry about my problems things always came to me. And those things that came to me in every single day, to accept those was my training and my way of expressing my enlightened mind. No matter what it was that came to me every day, the next thing that came, the next situation I found myself in, to live that totally as my training was what I had to do. Not to go isolate myself up on a mountain closed off from everyone, turning them all away and worrying about my own small state of mind. That wasn’t the point at all. But to go and be what every day brought to me that was my practice and my expression of my enlightenment. And ever since I realized that my whole life has been completely different. I know there is no problem for myself because there is no one there to feel that there is a problem. Just to take what every day brings and do that with my best, total, whole hearted effort as a person of practice. That was the way to live.
Alex Tsakiris: But doesn’t it seem like some people are not exercising their free choice or their free will and are getting into situations that they don’t necessarily want to get into, because they have, from a very practical sense, they’ve developed a set of beliefs that have led them to a particular…?
Sometimes the choice is made before birth.

Alex Tsakiris:...] I mean, this is the big question. Like you said, and you kind of kind of chuckle, like UFO, alien communication, hey, go down that path, there seems to be a reality to that. Go down psychedelics, there seems to be a reality where people are reaching this realm. Then go down the super spiritual path or the non-doer path and they’re going to say, “Avoid all that, go past that whole… go all the way around the block, ignore all of it and just go to… there’s a consciousness beyond that that doesn’t deal with any of that.”
I have never heard anyone in the Spiritualist community say to avoid UFOs (aliens). There are many worlds with life on them. Some types of beings are more in touch with their spiritual nature and can exist with one foot in both worlds. We can incarnate on different worlds at different times. Mediums encounter aliens during readings. It happened to us during my mediumship class. Remote viewers encounter them too.

From my web site:
https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/mystical_experiences#mystical_aliens
The subject of alien intelligences comes up occasionally in the context of mediumship and spiritual healing. One of the members of my development circle worked in a health profession and he would sneak in spiritual healing while he had his hands on the patients doing conventional treatments. His healing guides were aliens, they would come through during mediumship class occasionally.

We are not the only group that has had this type of contact. Alien contact is something that comes up for mediums whether they are spiritualist or not. It isn't talked about too much because mediums have a credibility problem among some people to begin with. The UFO pseudo-skeptics are just as malicious as the psi pseudo-skeptics. Mediums don't really need the additional personal attacks they would attract if they were more forthcoming about it.
...
Remote viewers have also reported contact with aliens. Psychics, remote viewers and mediums, are all communicating with entities that appear to be aliens.
I am in favor of medical research on psychedelics but otherwise there can be a lot of problems including problems with purity of illegally purchased substances, karmic consequences of patronizing organized crime gangs that sell illegal substances, addiction, you need someone around who can help you if you have a bad trip. And why would you believe that something that causes hallucinations can give you a correct vision of the non physical realms? (As far as I know, no one is saying psychedelics are 0% hallucinatory even if they do seem to produce some veridical experiences.)

With the right type of mediation you don't need drugs: "But this type of serenity meditation creates a feedback loop causing the brain to release endorphins, serotonin and dopamine. ... it's not normal meditation ... And it doesn't cause vomiting or diarrhea like Ayahuasca does. It's 100% free. And as far as I know it's legal everywhere."


Alex Tsakiris: But haven’t you run across people that, I have, that have channeled and learned stuff and it’s pretty whacko or it doesn’t seem to kind of fit with…?
Do they routinely bring through veridical information the way evidential mediums do? Otherwise you have no way to assess their reliability. Even evidential mediums are not 100% accurate. Can you give an example of someone who routinely brings through veridical material the way evidential mediums do and who is also getting wacko stuff?

Regarding the hierarchy vs sphere - I think we run into limitations understanding some things because we are limited by our physical existence and experience. I think you have to accept that you might not be able to understand everything 100%. It doesn't necessarily mean some people are wrong because they say something different.

Alex Tsakiris: So let me ask the dumb question like, why do we need healing, I mean, why isn’t God just healing us? God, and I’m not sticking a religious guy in there, I’m just using that as a short cut.
Because everything is a lesson. And I think there are physical limitations to what is possible in a physical world. The physical world is organized by natural laws and we live in biological bodies that are governed by natural laws. No one lives forever. If the physical world was perfect like the afterlife then what would be the point of incarnating? Who is to say what amount of suffering is appropriate? Spirits before they incarnate seem to have a different opinion than people experiencing an incarnation. Unfortunately for us incarnated people, it is our spirit-selves who make the decision.


If anyone is interested I described my experiences taking classes in mediumship here:
http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/psi_experience

And I've described a method of spiritual healing here:
http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/spiritual_healing
 
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#3
The first few minutes were a rehashing of ideas over astrology... which prompted me to do a birth chart... before today I didn't even know what sign I was.

So I went to a top search result, http://astro.cafeastrology.com/

put in my info, and was actually very shocked at how accurate and detailed my chart summary was. I then put in my fiancee's info and read her chart summary... again... surprisingly accurate. I then got a co-worker to do it, and once again... very much fit him. So if a computer is doing astrology (assuming it is not a neural network), that should definitely eliminate the psi component of it, right?

Regarding the question of good and evil and hierarchy and free-will: when it comes to questions of "should" and "ought", we have the serious and the unserious perspectives. The serious perspective involves "should" and "ought" and builds structure and avoids negative Karma. The unserious perspective says, "whatever, we'll all get there eventually and we're just having an experience" and in people who don't already have a lot of mental structure, discipline, and integrity, the unserious perspective can lead to going off the deep end in their explorations of experience creating a lot of painful consequences.

The serious perspective creates a lot of stress but avoids bad consequences and builds things. The unserious perspective frees from oppressive structure eliminating stress. I think we have to learn to have both and be pragmatic about switching them out as the situation calls for it. I tried to explain with an example here:
Regarding the question: "is the world perfect exactly the way it is?"

What "perfect" means depends on how you frame it.

One of the other closely related fundamental questions of life is: "Is it serious?"

For a year, I taught 4 and 5-year-olds Sunday school, and a lot of insight into these questions can be gained by watching a group of children play with legos. After all, we're merely highly sophisticated children and we are all engaged in either creation or destruction - the imposition of structure or the return to chaos. One child builds a spaceship, another a gun... another builds a new Tower of Babel rather unimaginatively stacking one Lego on top of another to dizzying heights. Construction peacefully progress thus for approximately 60 to 90 seconds until a new dynamic takes over. Legos become scarce and fights break out over resources needed to complete construction. The one building the Tower of Babel gets accused of hoarding all the pieces and so in short order the partially completed guns and space ships and dinosaurs become operable and go into battle. "Pew Pew Pew!"

Now when the destruction phase begins we find that some conscientious children take their projects very seriously... "Stawwwp!!" they moan as pieces are snatched away for the greater good of the collective where they are of course used to develop the next generation weapons. "Pew! Pew! Pew!"

The serious child (usually the one building the precarious tower that begs to be knocked over) continues with ever more shrill and squealing refrains of "Stawwwp!!" The unserious devil child wreaks havoc on her creation. The space ship and dinosaur remain engaged in dramatic battles - whizzing around the room faster and faster and louder and louder until the apocalypse comes: someone trips and busts their head, imaginative combat crosses a dimensional threshold into visceral veridical reality in the form of a great shove and a punch, the serious child is still screaming in rage and sadness at being "taxed"... and the only thing the adult can do at this point is shake them out of their micro-scale reiteration of all of humanity's problems with an offer of goldfish and juice.

Now back to the question...

There is the serious perspective on life and the unserious perspective. We need both I think, and we need to get really good at swapping them out as necessary. We need to discover each of the above types of children within our own being and integrate them. Sometimes we need to seriously build something better. Sometimes we need to laugh maniacally and smash it. The serious perspective builds structure, but when it becomes too stressful, the unserious perspective zooms out to reframe reality so that it is perfect as it is. Neither perspective is wrong unless it is not balanced with the other.
 
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#4
It's hard to always know when something is the right action or the wrong action:

Once there was a Chinese farmer who worked his poor farm together with his son and their horse. When the horse ran off one day, neighbors came to say, “How unfortunate for you!” The farmer replied, “Maybe yes, maybe no.”

When the horse returned, followed by a herd of wild horses, the neighbors gathered around and exclaimed, “What good luck for you!” The farmer stayed calm and replied, “Maybe yes, maybe no.”

While trying to tame one of wild horses, the farmer’s son fell, and broke his leg. He had to rest up and couldn’t help with the farm chores. “How sad for you,” the neighbors cried. “Maybe yes, maybe no,” said the farmer.

Shortly thereafter, a neighboring army threatened the farmer’s village. All the young men in the village were drafted to fight the invaders. Many died. But the farmer’s son had been left out of the fighting because of his broken leg. People said to the farmer, “What a good thing your son couldn’t fight!” “Maybe yes, maybe no,” was all the farmer said.​
 
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#6

Those aren't actions but instead are circumstances?
That's a good point. Most of us live our lives trying to do what is "best" or what is "right". I'm just not sure how meaningful that is as we zoom out into other realities, perhaps including the "afterlife" realm. I really don't think we can know the answer from here. We have a lot of age old ideas about right action. Just not sure how much they apply outside of this particular physical existence.
 
#7
Joy Lin has told me she is in the process of registering to join the forum, so I thought I would ask her a few questions.

Can you describe your first encounters with these phenomena?

Has your engineering training informed your work as a Spirit Medium in any way? For example, have you found any way to prove that these phenomena are real - as Julie Beischel has done.

Have you considered possible ways to technologically demonstrate the other realm - e.g. EVP?

Do you have a sense as to just what range of problems can be helped by your interventions?

You seemed to be saying that evil forces exist, but that they are less powerful than we tend to imagine - that they can't really possess someone, unless perhaps someone lets them. Can you say more about that - suppose someone lets them for a while, but then wants to change their mind?

At one point you said, " So I think, literally we have an electric vibration, whether it’s the color or sound that can be translated and as we open up our vibration gets higher, we feel lighter and things that are heavier… ". I am never sure whether to take such a statement literally or metaphorically. As an engineer, you are uniquely able to talk about that!

David
 
#8
That's a good point. Most of us live our lives trying to do what is "best" or what is "right". I'm just not sure how meaningful that is as we zoom out into other realities, perhaps including the "afterlife" realm. I really don't think we can know the answer from here. We have a lot of age old ideas about right action. Just not sure how much they apply outside of this particular physical existence.
this is the same question I'm bumping up against. it seems to me the evidence is suggesting that these realities are universal.
 
#9
this is the same question I'm bumping up against. it seems to me the evidence is suggesting that these realities are universal.
Well, if we have a choice, I'll take a chance on doing the 'right thing'. I'll not always manage it, unfortunately. It's not because I'm religious, I simply see it that way because my heart usually knows it, at least that is what I feel. You can only do what you believe is best. Our ideas of 'best' may vary wildly.
 
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#11
Alex,

I'd just like to offer a word of caution about highly informal podcasts.

The problem with recording a conversation, rather than having a formal interview, is that conversations implicitly build on previous discussions that those people have had, and what gets said will be inevitably be more meaningful to the participants than to the actual audience.

David
 
#12
Hi,

Just to make a personal observation about a minor point that came up in the interview.... It's pretty valid to ask whether tarot cards/astrology have some kind of intrinsic power to their systems, or whether they're just cultural tools for tapping into intuitive abilities. I must say though, having recently gotten into tarot it does seem to me that the system itself has something to recommend it - ie. "this really works". There are occasions when the cards drawn fit a situation/question with amazing specificity, and I've tested this out by substituting a few cards and watching that specificity dilute.

It's enough for me.

As to how it might work? Who knows. Maybe it's something to do with chaos theory and attractors set via consciousness? But then again, that might lead it back to being a device for interfacing with intuitive (consciousness) abilities??!!?

A great guest to shed some light on this would have been Yoav Ben-Dov, the Israeli physicist, philosopher of science, and tarot enthusiast. Unfortunately he passed away in December. If anyone's interested they can check out his website at www.cbdtarot.com . And if you're a tarot enthusiast, check out Yoav's beautiful modernisation of the 18th century Tarot De Marseilles.

Peace,
Dev.
 
#13
Alex,

I'd just like to offer a word of caution about highly informal podcasts.

The problem with recording a conversation, rather than having a formal interview, is that conversations implicitly build on previous discussions that those people have had, and what gets said will be inevitably be more meaningful to the participants than to the actual audience.

David
noted :)
 
#14
It's pretty valid to ask whether tarot cards/astrology have some kind of intrinsic power to their systems, or whether they're just cultural tools for tapping into intuitive abilities. I must say though, having recently gotten into tarot it does seem to me that the system itself has something to recommend it - ie. "this really works".
thx... fair point... I need to reconsider.

also, the fact that million of people have poured their collective energy into the Tarot could also give a force.
 
#17
Alex,

I'd just like to offer a word of caution about highly informal podcasts.

The problem with recording a conversation, rather than having a formal interview, is that conversations implicitly build on previous discussions that those people have had, and what gets said will be inevitably be more meaningful to the participants than to the actual audience.

David
I first heard the guest on the Mysterious Universe podcast and it was a compelling interview. Unfortunately, I think Alex missed an opportunity here by starting in the middle of the story, so to speak, rather than allowing the guest to explain why the beginning is so interesting. I would recommend a redo with more focus, i.e. a little guidance from Alex but letting the guest tell her story. Just my .00002 cents.
 
#18
Can you describe your first encounters with these phenomena?

Hi David! My original story was told by Mysterious Universe podcast which can be found here: http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/03/15-10-mu-podcast/ not sure if I am allowed to post another link here, but if not, I will remove it. But essentially my first encounter was not me looking for this world or this world. It was traumatic for me to say the least. Unlike other mediums/psychics I wasn't really looking to develop. I was thrown into this world and I had to learn how to swim essentially. Therefore a lot of what I teach comes from more of a grounded and practical approach, not all rainbows and puppy dogs of spiritual lightness.


Has your engineering training informed your work as a Spirit Medium in any way? For example, have you found any way to prove that these phenomena are real - as Julie Beischel has done.

I haven't pursued proof of the spirit world for any other purpose than my own sanity. hahahaha, so with my engineering brain, I questioned everything. Everything I was getting, seeing, hearing, and how I was doing it. I wasn't questioning it to prove the existence of spirit, but I did it to make sure it was real and not an illusion in my mind. I have read for strangers and described and felt how a person has died without ever meeting the person. I have asked for proof from my guides in the craziest of ways because I didn't know what or who was communicating with me, so how could I trust "it". I needed proof that spirit was real and on my side so to speak. So in that sense, my engineering brain, didn't just say a mantra or hold some crystals and hope for the best, I guess. But as a spiritual development teacher now, I have witness people with no experience with the metaphysics discover amazing abilities within themselves. That has been fascinating.


Have you considered possible ways to technologically demonstrate the other realm - e.g. EVP?

I have worked with some of those tools, like aura photography and emf readers. Energy sensitive tools are probably the best way to visually demonstrate the other side. Although a couple of times, I have drawn out things on paper that I have "seen" in the client's body... and not being a doctor or familiar with human antonymy, the clients have been in awe because I have drawn the exact shape of something the x-ray has shown or was later verified by the doctor's x-ray to be what I had seen. Weird. Yes, that is called a medical intuitive.


Do you have a sense as to just what range of problems can be helped by your interventions?

I have worked with people on predictions, past life healing, healing, mental, emotional, physical healing and blockages, karma connections, spirit connections with those who passed, house clearing, spirit attachments. People have come to me with all sorts--- including real estate investments and who they should hire in their company. I work with their guides and it is not my decision or intervention that will determine what can be done. If their guides want to help them in some way, I will be able to connect to the solution to best serve them in the moment. If their guides do not wish to disclose information because it will not help them move forward, I get nothing. NOTHING... crickets. So in essence, it is not up to me.

You seemed to be saying that evil forces exist, but that they are less powerful than we tend to imagine - that they can't really possess someone, unless perhaps someone lets them. Can you say more about that - suppose someone lets them for a while, but then wants to change their mind?

If you are open to the dark, it is not easy to change your mind and walk away... that door is open... even if you are just a little bit curious.... and we all are curious, and we all have that shadow self within us. We all want something in life... and that yearning or desire can lead to attachment and ego... Kinda like what yoda says: Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leadsto anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

I would like to think that love is strongest force in the world, hence fear is not as strong as you think... but the problem is, most of us have fear... somewhere. Our minds/ego protect us because if we can't see it, touch it, feel it, therefore how can we trust it... whatever it is. So we question and try to figure things out, and that limits us from the possible. But if we allow fear to take over, well, then we open the doors to unmentionable horrors that we see in the news today and beyond. There are things out there that don't want the light.

At one point you said, " So I think, literally we have an electric vibration, whether it’s the color or sound that can be translated and as we open up our vibration gets higher, we feel lighter and things that are heavier… ". I am never sure whether to take such a statement literally or metaphorically. As an engineer, you are uniquely able to talk about that!

well if we could measure out bio-electro field around us as we raiser or lower our vibration, we might be able to quantify these statements more. It is a mix I would say. Spiritual vibrations try their best to relate to since.... there will be a bridge built one day between these worlds... until then...

:)
 
#20
thx... fair point... I need to reconsider.

also, the fact that million of people have poured their collective energy into the Tarot could also give a force.

For me the tarot is an extension of my natural intuitive abilities. When I teach tarot I don't teach the meaning of the cards... the cards will only scratch the surface. But something uncanny in terms of how cards can tell you what is going on is the Lenormand deck... very different to tarot, but no matter how you shuffle, you lay all the cards out and it is accurate. The person doesn't pick a card or ask a question.. it just tells you what is going on... I have to say, that I find mind boggling...
 
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