Joy Lin, From Engineer to Spirit Medium |347|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, May 2, 2017.

  1. Alex

    Alex New

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    Joy Lin, From Engineer to Spirit Medium |347|
    by Alex Tsakiris | May 2 | Consciousness Science

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    Joy Lin didn’t go looking for spirit communication, but when they came she answered.
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    photo by: Skeptiko
    Welcome to Skeptiko, where we explore controversial science and spirituality, with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host Alex Tsakiris and on today’s episode, mediumistic, healer, channeler, communicator, and life-coach Joy Lin is joining me.

    Now, a quick backstory here. I originally heard about Joy through her interview about a year ago on Mysterious Universe, there’s a link in the show notes. It’s a fantastic interview. It tells the story of Joy who was a very well-educated engineer who suddenly and dramatically started having these experiences with spirits. So, she thinks she’s going crazy, goes through all the conventional kind of medical explanations and ultimately winds up with a Reiki healer who says, “No I’m sorry, it’s not that, it’s just that you’re connected now and you’ve got to deal with it.” And she has dealt with it in a pretty amazing way.

    Now, I know Joy because I contacted her, and I tell the story later in the interview, to do a healing for me, because I was going through a health issue and I decided that, while I was at the same time doing conventional therapy (which was a disaster by the way) I would also seek alternative treatments of various kinds, including Joy, and while I can’t say her healing, per se, changed anything for me, the intuitive information that she brought through in the healing was dramatically profound and I said, “Wow, you’re the real deal, I have to have you on Skeptiko, because there’s all these issues that keep coming up about what’s really going on with mediumship, what’s really going on with healing, what’s really going on with good and evil and these other realms?” And she has some incredible stories about that by the way, very chilling, if you will, so all that stuff got wrapped into this interview. It was a long discussion, she was here in the studio, we just talked, conversationally, and I had to kind of try and edit it into something meaningful and I hope you enjoy it. It’s about an hour long and it was really cool having here in the studio. Here’s my dialog with Joy Lin.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  2. I think this is two separate issues. There are "evil" (ignorant / undeveloped) spirits are out there and you deal with them at your own risk.

    From my web site:
    "You can never gain any benefit to yourself by interacting with selfish spirits. Such spirits may promise you some benefit, but being selfish, they will not deliver on their promise though they will use you for their own purposes which may leave you permanently under their influence doing things that are harmful to yourself and other people."
    https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/natural_mediumship#natural_warning
    (there are links in the original)

    If you believe in "do what thou wilt" you should also understand the law of karma and how it affects your experience in the afterlife and reincarnation. More below ...


    This how most people get from life what they came here for. You don't have to do anything. Life does it to you. How else could it be that billions come here but few are spiritual seekers?

    Very good point. Some scientists (people) should avoid studying spiritual phenomena because their attitude toward "evil" can get them into trouble. Materialist scientists who engaged in psychical research got a different flavor of phenomena than those who had a spiritual bent. They only fooled themselves when hey said it was because pk was at the root of the phenomena and spiritual investigators got what they believed they would get.

    Regarding topology, evidental mediums and NDErs tend to support the view that in the afterlife you go to a region that fits your mental state along with like minded people. People who are nasty, who like being nasty, and who want to do more nasty things go to a place with others of like mind where they interact. But there are people who will incarnate and, according to plan, be an "offender" to help people who, according to plan, need to learn something from being a victim. It's not really possible for most of us to figure out who is who.

    Sometimes the choice is made before birth.

    I have never heard anyone in the Spiritualist community say to avoid UFOs (aliens). There are many worlds with life on them. Some types of beings are more in touch with their spiritual nature and can exist with one foot in both worlds. We can incarnate on different worlds at different times. Mediums encounter aliens during readings. It happened to us during my mediumship class. Remote viewers encounter them too.

    From my web site:
    https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/mystical_experiences#mystical_aliens
    I am in favor of medical research on psychedelics but otherwise there can be a lot of problems including problems with purity of illegally purchased substances, karmic consequences of patronizing organized crime gangs that sell illegal substances, addiction, you need someone around who can help you if you have a bad trip. And why would you believe that something that causes hallucinations can give you a correct vision of the non physical realms? (As far as I know, no one is saying psychedelics are 0% hallucinatory even if they do seem to produce some veridical experiences.)

    With the right type of mediation you don't need drugs: "But this type of serenity meditation creates a feedback loop causing the brain to release endorphins, serotonin and dopamine. ... it's not normal meditation ... And it doesn't cause vomiting or diarrhea like Ayahuasca does. It's 100% free. And as far as I know it's legal everywhere."


    Do they routinely bring through veridical information the way evidential mediums do? Otherwise you have no way to assess their reliability. Even evidential mediums are not 100% accurate. Can you give an example of someone who routinely brings through veridical material the way evidential mediums do and who is also getting wacko stuff?

    Regarding the hierarchy vs sphere - I think we run into limitations understanding some things because we are limited by our physical existence and experience. I think you have to accept that you might not be able to understand everything 100%. It doesn't necessarily mean some people are wrong because they say something different.

    Because everything is a lesson. And I think there are physical limitations to what is possible in a physical world. The physical world is organized by natural laws and we live in biological bodies that are governed by natural laws. No one lives forever. If the physical world was perfect like the afterlife then what would be the point of incarnating? Who is to say what amount of suffering is appropriate? Spirits before they incarnate seem to have a different opinion than people experiencing an incarnation. Unfortunately for us incarnated people, it is our spirit-selves who make the decision.


    If anyone is interested I described my experiences taking classes in mediumship here:
    http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/psi_experience

    And I've described a method of spiritual healing here:
    http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/spiritual_healing
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
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  3. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

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    The first few minutes were a rehashing of ideas over astrology... which prompted me to do a birth chart... before today I didn't even know what sign I was.

    So I went to a top search result, http://astro.cafeastrology.com/

    put in my info, and was actually very shocked at how accurate and detailed my chart summary was. I then put in my fiancee's info and read her chart summary... again... surprisingly accurate. I then got a co-worker to do it, and once again... very much fit him. So if a computer is doing astrology (assuming it is not a neural network), that should definitely eliminate the psi component of it, right?

    Regarding the question of good and evil and hierarchy and free-will: when it comes to questions of "should" and "ought", we have the serious and the unserious perspectives. The serious perspective involves "should" and "ought" and builds structure and avoids negative Karma. The unserious perspective says, "whatever, we'll all get there eventually and we're just having an experience" and in people who don't already have a lot of mental structure, discipline, and integrity, the unserious perspective can lead to going off the deep end in their explorations of experience creating a lot of painful consequences.

    The serious perspective creates a lot of stress but avoids bad consequences and builds things. The unserious perspective frees from oppressive structure eliminating stress. I think we have to learn to have both and be pragmatic about switching them out as the situation calls for it. I tried to explain with an example here:
     
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  4. It's hard to always know when something is the right action or the wrong action:

    Once there was a Chinese farmer who worked his poor farm together with his son and their horse. When the horse ran off one day, neighbors came to say, “How unfortunate for you!” The farmer replied, “Maybe yes, maybe no.”

    When the horse returned, followed by a herd of wild horses, the neighbors gathered around and exclaimed, “What good luck for you!” The farmer stayed calm and replied, “Maybe yes, maybe no.”

    While trying to tame one of wild horses, the farmer’s son fell, and broke his leg. He had to rest up and couldn’t help with the farm chores. “How sad for you,” the neighbors cried. “Maybe yes, maybe no,” said the farmer.

    Shortly thereafter, a neighboring army threatened the farmer’s village. All the young men in the village were drafted to fight the invaders. Many died. But the farmer’s son had been left out of the fighting because of his broken leg. People said to the farmer, “What a good thing your son couldn’t fight!” “Maybe yes, maybe no,” was all the farmer said.​
     
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  5. Those aren't actions but instead are circumstances?
     
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  6. That's a good point. Most of us live our lives trying to do what is "best" or what is "right". I'm just not sure how meaningful that is as we zoom out into other realities, perhaps including the "afterlife" realm. I really don't think we can know the answer from here. We have a lot of age old ideas about right action. Just not sure how much they apply outside of this particular physical existence.
     
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  7. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Joy Lin has told me she is in the process of registering to join the forum, so I thought I would ask her a few questions.

    Can you describe your first encounters with these phenomena?

    Has your engineering training informed your work as a Spirit Medium in any way? For example, have you found any way to prove that these phenomena are real - as Julie Beischel has done.

    Have you considered possible ways to technologically demonstrate the other realm - e.g. EVP?

    Do you have a sense as to just what range of problems can be helped by your interventions?

    You seemed to be saying that evil forces exist, but that they are less powerful than we tend to imagine - that they can't really possess someone, unless perhaps someone lets them. Can you say more about that - suppose someone lets them for a while, but then wants to change their mind?

    At one point you said, " So I think, literally we have an electric vibration, whether it’s the color or sound that can be translated and as we open up our vibration gets higher, we feel lighter and things that are heavier… ". I am never sure whether to take such a statement literally or metaphorically. As an engineer, you are uniquely able to talk about that!

    David
     
  8. Alex

    Alex New

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    this is the same question I'm bumping up against. it seems to me the evidence is suggesting that these realities are universal.
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Member

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    Well, if we have a choice, I'll take a chance on doing the 'right thing'. I'll not always manage it, unfortunately. It's not because I'm religious, I simply see it that way because my heart usually knows it, at least that is what I feel. You can only do what you believe is best. Our ideas of 'best' may vary wildly.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  10. Alex

    Alex New

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    me too. this may seem obvious, but I don't think it is.
     
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  11. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    Alex,

    I'd just like to offer a word of caution about highly informal podcasts.

    The problem with recording a conversation, rather than having a formal interview, is that conversations implicitly build on previous discussions that those people have had, and what gets said will be inevitably be more meaningful to the participants than to the actual audience.

    David
     
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  12. dpdownsouth

    dpdownsouth Member

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    Hi,

    Just to make a personal observation about a minor point that came up in the interview.... It's pretty valid to ask whether tarot cards/astrology have some kind of intrinsic power to their systems, or whether they're just cultural tools for tapping into intuitive abilities. I must say though, having recently gotten into tarot it does seem to me that the system itself has something to recommend it - ie. "this really works". There are occasions when the cards drawn fit a situation/question with amazing specificity, and I've tested this out by substituting a few cards and watching that specificity dilute.

    It's enough for me.

    As to how it might work? Who knows. Maybe it's something to do with chaos theory and attractors set via consciousness? But then again, that might lead it back to being a device for interfacing with intuitive (consciousness) abilities??!!?

    A great guest to shed some light on this would have been Yoav Ben-Dov, the Israeli physicist, philosopher of science, and tarot enthusiast. Unfortunately he passed away in December. If anyone's interested they can check out his website at www.cbdtarot.com . And if you're a tarot enthusiast, check out Yoav's beautiful modernisation of the 18th century Tarot De Marseilles.

    Peace,
    Dev.
     
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  13. Alex

    Alex New

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    noted :)
     
  14. Alex

    Alex New

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    thx... fair point... I need to reconsider.

    also, the fact that million of people have poured their collective energy into the Tarot could also give a force.
     
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  15. dpdownsouth

    dpdownsouth Member

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    That concept's got a lot of romance to it.... which I find really appealing. Anyway, I suppose there's no reason why morphic fields or some such couldn't hang around a cultural artefact like tarot.
     
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  16. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I would strongly suggest that anyone interested in this subject should listen to her interview of Mysterious Universe (linked to on the main podcast page). I think that interview could inform and focus this discussion.

    http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/03/15-10-mu-podcast/

    David
     
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  17. mobius32

    mobius32 New

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    I first heard the guest on the Mysterious Universe podcast and it was a compelling interview. Unfortunately, I think Alex missed an opportunity here by starting in the middle of the story, so to speak, rather than allowing the guest to explain why the beginning is so interesting. I would recommend a redo with more focus, i.e. a little guidance from Alex but letting the guest tell her story. Just my .00002 cents.
     
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  18. joy lin

    joy lin Member

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    Can you describe your first encounters with these phenomena?

    Hi David! My original story was told by Mysterious Universe podcast which can be found here: http://mysteriousuniverse.org/2016/03/15-10-mu-podcast/ not sure if I am allowed to post another link here, but if not, I will remove it. But essentially my first encounter was not me looking for this world or this world. It was traumatic for me to say the least. Unlike other mediums/psychics I wasn't really looking to develop. I was thrown into this world and I had to learn how to swim essentially. Therefore a lot of what I teach comes from more of a grounded and practical approach, not all rainbows and puppy dogs of spiritual lightness.


    Has your engineering training informed your work as a Spirit Medium in any way? For example, have you found any way to prove that these phenomena are real - as Julie Beischel has done.

    I haven't pursued proof of the spirit world for any other purpose than my own sanity. hahahaha, so with my engineering brain, I questioned everything. Everything I was getting, seeing, hearing, and how I was doing it. I wasn't questioning it to prove the existence of spirit, but I did it to make sure it was real and not an illusion in my mind. I have read for strangers and described and felt how a person has died without ever meeting the person. I have asked for proof from my guides in the craziest of ways because I didn't know what or who was communicating with me, so how could I trust "it". I needed proof that spirit was real and on my side so to speak. So in that sense, my engineering brain, didn't just say a mantra or hold some crystals and hope for the best, I guess. But as a spiritual development teacher now, I have witness people with no experience with the metaphysics discover amazing abilities within themselves. That has been fascinating.


    Have you considered possible ways to technologically demonstrate the other realm - e.g. EVP?

    I have worked with some of those tools, like aura photography and emf readers. Energy sensitive tools are probably the best way to visually demonstrate the other side. Although a couple of times, I have drawn out things on paper that I have "seen" in the client's body... and not being a doctor or familiar with human antonymy, the clients have been in awe because I have drawn the exact shape of something the x-ray has shown or was later verified by the doctor's x-ray to be what I had seen. Weird. Yes, that is called a medical intuitive.


    Do you have a sense as to just what range of problems can be helped by your interventions?

    I have worked with people on predictions, past life healing, healing, mental, emotional, physical healing and blockages, karma connections, spirit connections with those who passed, house clearing, spirit attachments. People have come to me with all sorts--- including real estate investments and who they should hire in their company. I work with their guides and it is not my decision or intervention that will determine what can be done. If their guides want to help them in some way, I will be able to connect to the solution to best serve them in the moment. If their guides do not wish to disclose information because it will not help them move forward, I get nothing. NOTHING... crickets. So in essence, it is not up to me.

    You seemed to be saying that evil forces exist, but that they are less powerful than we tend to imagine - that they can't really possess someone, unless perhaps someone lets them. Can you say more about that - suppose someone lets them for a while, but then wants to change their mind?

    If you are open to the dark, it is not easy to change your mind and walk away... that door is open... even if you are just a little bit curious.... and we all are curious, and we all have that shadow self within us. We all want something in life... and that yearning or desire can lead to attachment and ego... Kinda like what yoda says: Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leadsto anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

    I would like to think that love is strongest force in the world, hence fear is not as strong as you think... but the problem is, most of us have fear... somewhere. Our minds/ego protect us because if we can't see it, touch it, feel it, therefore how can we trust it... whatever it is. So we question and try to figure things out, and that limits us from the possible. But if we allow fear to take over, well, then we open the doors to unmentionable horrors that we see in the news today and beyond. There are things out there that don't want the light.

    At one point you said, " So I think, literally we have an electric vibration, whether it’s the color or sound that can be translated and as we open up our vibration gets higher, we feel lighter and things that are heavier… ". I am never sure whether to take such a statement literally or metaphorically. As an engineer, you are uniquely able to talk about that!

    well if we could measure out bio-electro field around us as we raiser or lower our vibration, we might be able to quantify these statements more. It is a mix I would say. Spiritual vibrations try their best to relate to since.... there will be a bridge built one day between these worlds... until then...

    :)
     
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  19. joy lin

    joy lin Member

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    Thank you! :) My website evolutionaryou.com also has things that may be of interest to people.
     
  20. joy lin

    joy lin Member

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    For me the tarot is an extension of my natural intuitive abilities. When I teach tarot I don't teach the meaning of the cards... the cards will only scratch the surface. But something uncanny in terms of how cards can tell you what is going on is the Lenormand deck... very different to tarot, but no matter how you shuffle, you lay all the cards out and it is accurate. The person doesn't pick a card or ask a question.. it just tells you what is going on... I have to say, that I find mind boggling...
     

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