Jurgen Ziewe is bringing Virtual Reality to the Spiritual Experience |465|

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Jurgen Ziewe is bringing Virtual Reality to the Spiritual Experience |465|
by Alex Tsakiris | Sep 29 | Consciousness Research
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Jurgen Ziewe is bringing virtual reality technology to his experiences as an out of body traveler.

photo by: Skeptiko
[Clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:19]
That’s from the movie The Shack, which does a pretty good job of exploring the interplay between, consensus reality and the impossible to understand extended reality that seems to pop up now and then. It’s a topic that I explored with the extraordinary astral traveler, Jurgen Ziewe. Here are a couple of clips.
Jurgen Ziewe: [00:00:51] I was at that time painting taught by a Vienna surrealist, that went on really well. But than one night I had an extreme experience, like a poltergeist thing, I had this picture of a demon on my easel and it fell off, and not only that, but an ashtray which was next to it was catapulted across the room. At that time I just didn’t believe in anything supernatural and anything like that was totally out of my realm.
I stood at the shore of an ocean and the waves crashing in towards me were made out of light, and each light, each wave that came to me was a revelation, was offering a higher state of consciousness. And all time this was happening, I was in a state of total ecstasy. And every time a new wave came crushing in on me there was another revelation, not just a revelation, but an even higher state of consciousness.
 
#3
one night I had an extreme experience, like a poltergeist thing, I had this picture of a demon on my easel and it fell off, and not only that, but an ashtray which was next to it was catapulted across the room. At that time I just didn’t believe in anything supernatural and anything like that was totally out of my realm.
Did it occur to Mr. Ziewe that from this beginning he was unknowingly being drawn into deception. Whatever he might pursue from here would be to the mirth of the deceivers, spiritual tricksters having no good intent for Mr. Ziewe.
 
#5
Did it occur to Mr. Ziewe that from this beginning he was unknowingly being drawn into deception. Whatever he might pursue from here would be to the mirth of the deceivers, spiritual tricksters having no good intent for Mr. Ziewe.
That sounds like a self-deception applied for preservation of a belief.
 
#6
Did it occur to Mr. Ziewe that from this beginning he was unknowingly being drawn into deception. Whatever he might pursue from here would be to the mirth of the deceivers, spiritual tricksters having no good intent for Mr. Ziewe.
The problem with that philosophy is that if you follow it, you can either ignore the entire world as being potentially deceitful, or follow someone else's definition of THE TRUTH and never question it.

The tricksters don't need to stop at paranormal phenomena - they can extend into science and indeed life in general.

Since these tricksters would have had to take over Jurgen's neural circuitry to provide the required hallucinations, they might as well have even more fun while they are on with it.

Maybe every holiday you have ever had was actually a visit to a torture chamber, but they replaced your memories with false ones - that would be a great giggle!

Maybe the deceivers are chuckling because they have tricked you into believing you fathered your own children, and in reality they inserted a foetus into your wife's womb that was chosen to bear enough resemblance to you both that you are fooled.

Maybe Alex is a manifestation of Satan, and God will punish everyone who visits here with eternal damnation - even for one brief glimpse. What a fantastic way to increase his numbers!

Am I doing Satan's bidding simply by helping to keep the forum running well?

David
 
#7
That was a very thought provoking interview, and I am particularly interested in the idea of using Virtual reality to let others glimpse this reality.
So I released this in the tech group and soon enough, I think there were about.


3000 downloads in the end. And I had some interesting comments. Some people said it felt like a near death experience. They felt, this is how it must feel if you die. You know, people said, Oh, I lost total sense of time. You know, because the experience is such, it takes you out of the linear times stream.


You have no bearings. We don’t know what’s beyond it. You’re just in a tunnel, literally in a tunnel innovation. And, and so I’ve taken this on and this morning I completed the second experience, which of course is based, based on everything I’ve done before. And I played it to my daughter who is a yoga teacher.

Okay. I I’ve wanted to ever first sort of impression. And she actually reported, there was certain things happening inside her body, especially in the heart chakra. She knows all about these different energy centers. And, and she said she felt a very powerful connection, which he bitch was like a forgotten memory, you know?
I think it would be great to get something that would work on a PC. I know there would be probably be no 3-D experience to it, but as I understand it, extended consciousness goes beyond 3 dimensions - so is 2 such a restriction?

Apps and suchlike quickly go obsolete as phone technology advances. I think that if you want your legacy to last, Jurgen should at least consider a more durable format.

I really hope that Jurgen can join us all here on the forum!

David
 
#8
Did it occur to Mr. Ziewe that from this beginning he was unknowingly being drawn into deception. Whatever he might pursue from here would be to the mirth of the deceivers, spiritual tricksters having no good intent for Mr. Ziewe.
Can harm come to you, garry? And if so, what does that say for your "creator"? (At least the one... "the creator" you have chosen)?
 
#11
The problem with that philosophy is that if you follow it, you can either ignore the entire world as being potentially deceitful, or follow someone else's definition of THE TRUTH and never question it.

The tricksters don't need to stop at paranormal phenomena - they can extend into science and indeed life in general.

Since these tricksters would have had to take over Jurgen's neural circuitry to provide the required hallucinations, they might as well have even more fun while they are on with it.

Maybe every holiday you have ever had was actually a visit to a torture chamber, but they replaced your memories with false ones - that would be a great giggle!

Maybe the deceivers are chuckling because they have tricked you into believing you fathered your own children, and in reality they inserted a foetus into your wife's womb that was chosen to bear enough resemblance to you both that you are fooled.

Maybe Alex is a manifestation of Satan, and God will punish everyone who visits here with eternal damnation - even for one brief glimpse. What a fantastic way to increase his numbers!

Am I doing Satan's bidding simply by helping to keep the forum running well?

David
I was thinking the same thing. I used to worry that I could never find truth because I was afraid that I could be deceived. You explained perfectly, the rabbit hole this kind of thinking leads to.
 
#13
The problem with that philosophy is that if you follow it, you can either ignore the entire world as being potentially deceitful, or follow someone else's definition of THE TRUTH and never question it.
I have to admit that having the episode start off with tales of demon portraits and poltergeist phenomena made all the old alarms go off for me - alarms programmed into me by well-meaning(?) Christian relatives, community members, etc. (Stay away from this s**t! shouts the amygdala, well primed by early childhood programming to respond in a knee-jerk way to such stories... lest ye be devoured by that hungry lion, SATAN! ).

But you’re right David. When you begin to entertain ideas of being deceived, the pool of ideas, beliefs, perceptions, etc., that one declares trustworthy enough to hang one’s hat on appears to lie within a very arbitrarily drawn line of demarcation. Now it’s all fair game. Now you’re fair game. [Do you even exist? Did you only just now appear, filled with memories of a life you never even lived?]

The only counter argument to this line of thinking that I’ve encountered comes from those who insist it is appropriate to argue from authority. (There is a trustworthy source of knowledge. So long as we hitch our wagon to that source, we can rest assured we’re not deceived.) This could be a holy book, a religious figure, etc. We all know how that game goes. Therefore, do not let your eyes and wits deceive you! Those dinosaur bones were put there by the devil to test your faith! The world is not round and it’s only 6,020 years old!

A major problem with this, to me, is that the one sure thing you know is that you can’t trust yourself to know anything accurate or true. And if that’s the case, then maybe you made the wrong choice in deciding you weren’t trustworthy. How could you know?
 
#14
That show was a wonderful trip. Good stuff. I hope @Wormwood managed to catch it since he was the one hucking Alex to get Jurgen back on.

Okay, this is emphatically not aimed at Mr. Ziewe:

To be fair to @garry, when we're dealing with extended consciousness experiences, as opposed to questions of are my children really mine or is David Baily doing the devil's bidding (a moot point), the territory is far trickier to navigate, and the possibility for error, if not necessarily deception, is decidedly higher.

Sticking with the deception angle, two examples spring to mind. First is the case of science fiction author Philip K. Dick (he of Blade Runner fame and something of a genius). In 1974 Mr. Dick had a series of experiences in which he was zapped by a pink light emanating from a being he nicknamed Zebra owing to its propensity to hide in the form of everyday objects. Zebra's pink light apparently uploaded vast streams of visionary and mystical information into his brain. The phenomena persisted intermittently for some time and Dick felt guided by other worldly beings as he continued to receive uploads and cryptic insights into the nature of reality. At some point (after, I think, a period of a few months), and much to the author's dismay, the visions ceased.

We cannot know for sure the reality behind this experience. But what we can say is that it wrecked the man's creativity for good and he spent the remainder of his life, convinced as he was of his status as a prophet and visionary, giving talks on the subject and filling up thousands of pages with semi-coherent attempts to make sense of his experiences.

Point being, if Zebra was real, was it as benevolent as Dick believed and did it really have his best interests at heart?


Philip K. Dick (December 16, 1928 – March 2, 1982)

Similarly, Terence McKenna, a man whom I adore, spent decades communing with 'THE MUSHROOM' as it took him on cosmic quests and invigorating journeys of great beauty and intriguing, if somewhat obscure, significance. Until, that is, one day the Shroom, that presence he new and loved so well, changed tack and gave him a vision of the cosmos as a vast and meaningless machine grinding down any hopes of a significant existence. This experience is said to have haunted McKenna for the rest of his too short life.

As with Zebra, was The Mushroom as benevolent as it appeared for so long?


Terence McKenna (November 16, 1946 – April 3, 2000)

And while I am aware that appealing to authority is a classic logical fallacy, perhaps we should wonder why some spiritual traditions tell us to be very wary of exceptional visionary experiences. This could be particularly wise given our age's understandable craving for the spiritually fantastical.

Again, absolutely none of this is aimed at Jurgen. I just thought Garry's point wasn't totally irrelevant and reactionary. It's a balancing act, I suppose.
 
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#15
That show was a wonderful trip. Good stuff. I hope @Wormwood managed to catch it since he was the one hucking Alex to get Jurgen back on.

Okay, this is emphatically not aimed at Mr. Ziewe:

To be fair to @garry, when we're dealing with extended consciousness experiences, as opposed to questions of are my children really mine or is David Baily doing the devil's bidding (a moot point), the territory is far trickier to navigate, and the possibility for error, if not necessarily deception, is decidedly higher.

Sticking with the deception angle, two examples spring to mind. First is the case of science fiction author Philip K. Dick (he of Blade Runner fame and something of a genius). In 1974 Mr. Dick had a series of experiences in which he was zapped by a pink light emanating from a being he nicknamed Zebra owing to its propensity to hide in the form of everyday objects. Zebra's pink light apparently uploaded vast streams of visionary and mystical information into his brain. The phenomena persisted intermittently for some time and Dick felt guided by other worldly beings as he continued to receive uploads and cryptic insights into the nature of reality. At some point (after, I think, a period of a few months), and much to the author's dismay, the visions ceased.

We cannot know for sure the reality behind this experience. But what we can say is that it wrecked the man's creativity for good and he spent the remainder of his life, convinced as he was of his status as a prophet and visionary, giving talks on the subject and filling up thousands of pages with semi-coherent attempts to make sense of his experiences.

Point being, if Zebra was real, was it as benevolent as Dick believed and did it really have his best interests at heart?


Philip K. Dick (December 16, 1928 – March 2, 1982)

Similarly, Terence McKenna, a man whom I adore, spent decades communing with 'THE MUSHROOM' as it took him on cosmic quests and invigorating journeys of great beauty and intriguing, if somewhat obscure, significance. Until, that is, one day the Shroom, that presence he new and loved so well, changed tack and gave him a vision of the cosmos as a vast and meaningless machine grinding down any hopes of a significant existence. This experience is said to have haunted McKenna for the rest of his too short life.

As with Zebra, was The Mushroom as benevolent as it appeared for so long?


Terence McKenna (November 16, 1946 – April 3, 2000)

And while I am aware that appealing to authority is a classic logical fallacy, perhaps we should wonder why some spiritual traditions tell us to be very wary of exceptional visionary experiences. This could be particularly wise given our age's understandable craving for the spiritually fantastical.

Again, absolutely none of this is aimed at Jurgen. I just thought Garry's point wasn't totally irrelevant and reactionary. It's a balancing act, I suppose.
Your response to garry is far more productive.

My response exposed my self generated impatience I have with regards to the state of this world - ridiculously screwed up. A view which, I understand, is simply my own subjective opinion... in that I see it as a massively wasted opportunity in how it has developed to be from an Earth-centric perspective. I put part of the blame on people's fears of self-destruction via some outside powerful force or judgment and how it seems those fears are so often projected on others (unless those others choose to believe or follow or allow themselves to become beholden to some external third party "God thingie" instead of embracing personal responsibility for every aspect of one's own journey).

At least I know I just did the same thing... haha... by making my own view some sort of pronouncement.
 
#16
Your response to garry is far more productive.

My response exposed my self generated impatience I have with regards to the state of this world - ridiculously screwed up. A view which, I understand, is simply my own subjective opinion... in that I see it as a massively wasted opportunity in how it has developed to be from an Earth-centric perspective. I put part of the blame on people's fears of self-destruction via some outside powerful force or judgment and how it seems those fears are so often projected on others (unless those others choose to believe or follow or allow themselves to become beholden to some external third party "God thingie" instead of embracing personal responsibility for every aspect of one's own journey).

At least I know I just did the same thing... haha... by making my own view some sort of pronouncement.
I feel the same way about the world. Hopefully, we're both wrong. As for the rest, I think I'm more and more turning into a spiritual conservative. If it gets any worse you may have to mount an intervention. :)
 
#17
I feel the same way about the world. Hopefully, we're both wrong. As for the rest, I think I'm more and more turning into a spiritual conservative. If it gets any worse you may have to mount an intervention. :)
I am finding myself more and more ready for transition from this life. The state of this planet is beyond complete, utter absurdity. I am waffling between the "I don't give a f%ck" stage and concentrating every moment of my life on my own, personal spiritual practice... measuring my success all and only by how I perceive my impact upon others (as honestly as I can so do) to turn out to be... all of this anchored by my core operational assumption that I am 100% responsible for everything of my experience, my eternal, identity based experience. 100%
 
#18
I am finding myself more and more ready for transition from this life. The state of this planet is beyond complete, utter absurdity. I am waffling between the "I don't give a f%ck" stage and concentrating every moment of my life on my own, personal spiritual practice... measuring my success all and only by how I perceive my impact upon others (as honestly as I can so do) to turn out to be... all of this anchored by my core operational assumption that I am 100% responsible for everything of my experience, my eternal, identity based experience. 100%
If - as you state here, "all of this anchored by my core operational assumption that I am 100% responsible for everything of my experience, my eternal, identity based experience. 100%", then the opening part of the post, where you describe your current experience, is yours too. That is, the perception of "complete, utter absurdity" isn't an absolute, something on which everyone can agree, but something of your own creation, isn't it? That being so, could there be a possibility to choose a different perception?
 
#19
If - as you state here, "all of this anchored by my core operational assumption that I am 100% responsible for everything of my experience, my eternal, identity based experience. 100%", then the opening part of the post, where you describe your current experience, is yours too. That is, the perception of "complete, utter absurdity" isn't an absolute, something on which everyone can agree, but something of your own creation, isn't it? That being so, could there be a possibility to choose a different perception?
Great post / response.

First, my view that the current state of this planet is all 100% absolutely absurd is, in my understanding, all and only my own view. Others may perceive it differently.

I assume 100% responsibility for being here and that I perceive it all as 100% absurd is an opportunity for me to make the hell sure I don't come back (unless I change my mind). I don't want to change my perception to something that may not reflect my current provisional truths because then I would be engaging in self-deception.

So I accept my condition and have already dealt with "almost suicide" (and have survived it) thus, I am here until "nature" takes me out. To the degree I have a choice, I do not care to return to this world or any similar world.

By taking 100% full responsibility for everything in my life (including my physical experience that has me anchored into this specific version of a physical world until this body naturally "kicks the bucket") I am laser focused on everything within me that might create or extend "karmic debt" so as to ensure as little need as possible for a return.

Understand, I am not anti-life... anything BUT is the truth. What I am finished with is worlds dominated by ignorance and lower egoic drives (knowing I am still prone to giving control to either of these in my own ongoing expression of being).
 
#20
Great post / response.

First, my view that the current state of this planet is all 100% absolutely absurd is, in my understanding, all and only my own view. Others may perceive it differently.

I assume 100% responsibility for being here and that I perceive it all as 100% absurd is an opportunity for me to make the hell sure I don't come back (unless I change my mind). I don't want to change my perception to something that may not reflect my current provisional truths because then I would be engaging in self-deception.

So I accept my condition and have already dealt with "almost suicide" (and have survived it) thus, I am here until "nature" takes me out. To the degree I have a choice, I do not care to return to this world or any similar world.

By taking 100% full responsibility for everything in my life (including my physical experience that has me anchored into this specific version of a physical world until this body naturally "kicks the bucket") I am laser focused on everything within me that might create or extend "karmic debt" so as to ensure as little need as possible for a return.

Understand, I am not anti-life... anything BUT is the truth. What I am finished with is worlds dominated by ignorance and lower egoic drives (knowing I am still prone to giving control to either of these in my own ongoing expression of being).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

“The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist realist fears it is true.” J. Robert Oppenheimer

I myself can't imagine a worst one, unless a demon is at the helm. I have lots of trouble understanding Jurgen's state of bliss.






 
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