Karl Popper's "Science as Falsification" :

#1
Science should be metaphysically neutral , should neither be naturalist materialist nor otherwise ,but that remains just an utopia so far , for ever , i guess , or as lunatic Dennett once said : "There is no such thing as philosophy-free science ..." .

Beware of all forms of scientism also (Reductionist naturalist materialism is the worst and most narrow-minded and exclusive form of scientism ever .) .

Science is not about the truth either, just about temporary knowledge which can never be proved to be true ever , no matter how many amounts of unsuccessful falsifications it might pass , now or in the future .

In other words :

All scientific knowledge remains hypothetical :

See the following on the subject :


Karl Popper's "Science as Falsification" :


Welcome to the "real " world .
 
#3
I like Feynman's "Science is a belief in the fallibility of experts."

Popper's general epistemology, critical rationalism, would do us all a world of good if it was widespread.
Indeed.The man was a genius.He was the greatest philosopher of science ever.His work regarding the nature of science and epistemology at least are needed now more than ever before , especially in this time where science has been equated with a ...world view , a 19th century outdated false and superseded philosophy , conception of nature ...such as materialism or materialistic monism.
Materialism that has not only been dominating in all sciences for that matter , including human sciences , but has also been dominating in political science , history writing, sociology, anthropology, psychology , economics, art , literature .....
It's about time that materialism gets kicked out of science and the rest , for the benefit and progress of mankind as a whole and for those of science.Cheers.
 
#4
Indeed.The man was a genius.He was the greatest philosopher of science ever.His work regarding the nature of science and epistemology at least are needed now more than ever before , especially in this time where science has been equated with a ...world view , a 19th century outdated false and superseded philosophy , conception of nature ...such as materialism or materialistic monism.
Materialism that has not only been dominating in all sciences for that matter , including human sciences , but has also been dominating in political science , history writing, sociology, anthropology, psychology , economics, art , literature .....
It's about time that materialism gets kicked out of science and the rest , for the benefit and progress of mankind as a whole and for those of science.Cheers.
Ah but you see, no less a personage than Stephen Hawking has come out now and declared philosophy to be dead. :/

And no wonder! Anyone with any philosophical inclination could knock down scientism with ease! The Emperor has no clothes! What then would come of the priesthood?

I agree that materialists need to take a step back. I sympathize with their viewpoint even as I disagree with it. I don't see materialism specifically as the problem (it's just another paradigm that has had its day, and we need to give bad ideas a day in court so that we can weed them out). Lots of smart and thoughtful folks are materialists. The problem is intellectual arrogance and the certitude that one has somehow come to apprehend Ultimate Truth. That's fundamentalism. If you don't know that you don't know much, you're a pretty poor example of a scientist (at least that would be my opinion).
 
#5
="David, post: 61612, member: 1113"]Ah but you see, no less a personage than Stephen Hawking has come out now and declared philosophy to be dead. :/
Yeah, i know that.That's what ideologies such as materialism can do to savants-idiots like him who have been equating their own dogmatic materialist ideology with science.
Even lunatic Dennett said , and rightly so : " There is no such thing as philosophy -free science ..."
Only dogmatic bigots , fundamentalists, ignorant people or fools
would claim that philosophy is dead , while without philosophy and its epistemology , without metaphysics ...there could be no science , in the first place to begin with, as science does need philosophy now more than ever before to "bring it back to the right path whenever it goes astray " as that so often happens.
Hawking has to realize the fact that the naturalist philosophy , and especially its materialist version, has been underlying science to the point that most scientists and other people have been taking materialism for granted as science or as "the scientific world view " , since the second half of the 19th century and counting...

And no wonder! Anyone with any philosophical inclination could knock down scientism with ease! The Emperor has no clothes! What then would come of the priesthood?
Exactly.Scientism is just an ideology , no science.

I agree that materialists need to take a step back. I sympathize with their viewpoint even as I disagree with it. I don't see materialism specifically as the problem (it's just another paradigm that has had its day, and we need to give bad ideas a day in court so that we can weed them out). Lots of smart and thoughtful folks are materialists. The problem is intellectual arrogance and the certitude that one has somehow come to apprehend Ultimate Truth. That's fundamentalism. If you don't know that you don't know much, you're a pretty poor example of a scientist (at least that would be my opinion).
Well, dogmatic materialism is THE major form of intellectual arrogance and "certainty" though.
Yeah , it would be useful to read this following book on the subject regarding the existence of the unpredictable or unexpected black swans that make the arrogant dogmatic "certainty" a joke :

http://www.amazon.com/The-Black-Swan-Improbable-Robustness/dp/081297381X

Even science itself is not about the "truth" as Popper used to say ...Cheers.
 
#6
Well, dogmatic materialism is THE major form of intellectual arrogance and "certainty" though.

Yeah , it would be useful to read this following book on the subject regarding the existence of the unpredictable or unexpected black swans that make the arrogant dogmatic "certainty" a joke :

http://www.amazon.com/The-Black-Swan-Improbable-Robustness/dp/081297381X

Even science itself is not about the "truth" as Popper used to say ...Cheers.
I don't know, Nassim, I see fundamentalist Christianity (and strong fideism in general) in the same light as dogmatic materialism. Lots of good folks are fundie Christians, and lots of nutcases as well. But on the whole, their doomsday cult ideology is a threat to peace and stability on Earth (just google "George W Bush" and "Gog and Magog" for an example). Intellectual (and anti-intellectual) arrogance are rampant in all quarters.

I think it's worth repeating to point out that even bad ideas (materialism) need a day or two in court. Conjecture and refutation. Without logical positivism, for example, we wouldn't have arrived at Popper's falsification.

Maybe materialism and fundamentalism and some of the other rampant isms need to run their course before a paradigm shift can take place.

A broader understanding of the psychological principle of "cognitive dissonance" would maybe help people see the value in deconstructing their own belief systems.

That's a dream, though.

Thank you for pointing me at the black swan book, I will check it out. I have had a few black swan events myself, without which I might still be on the fence about materialism as a valid worldview.
 
#7
I don't know, Nassim, I see fundamentalist Christianity (and strong fideism in general) in the same light as dogmatic materialism. Lots of good folks are fundie Christians, and lots of nutcases as well. But on the whole, their doomsday cult ideology is a threat to peace and stability on Earth (just google "George W Bush" and "Gog and Magog" for an example). Intellectual (and anti-intellectual) arrogance are rampant in all quarters.

I think it's worth repeating to point out that even bad ideas (materialism) need a day or two in court. Conjecture and refutation. Without logical positivism, for example, we wouldn't have arrived at Popper's falsification.

Maybe materialism and fundamentalism and some of the other rampant isms need to run their course before a paradigm shift can take place.

A broader understanding of the psychological principle of "cognitive dissonance" would maybe help people see the value in deconstructing their own belief systems.

That's a dream, though.

Thank you for pointing me at the black swan book, I will check it out. I have had a few black swan events myself, without which I might still be on the fence about materialism as a valid worldview.
I can't argue with the above.You're welcome.Nassim's book is really worth reading, a humbling reality check at least.
What do you think of my DREAM ? :

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/i-have-a-dream.2042/


I am not that naive , but i have ...hope.Cheers.
 
#9
I think this is ALL a dream. ;)
I think life is a dream, in the sense that most of us are asleep in life.
Death will wakes us all up, soon enough...
But ,we can wake up in this life before death ,if we want to at least , by letting go of the false and illusory ego, and hence by getting in touch with the divine within.
One has to die before death to accomplish that...
 
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#17
No, I meant what logical fallacies and "certainty"? I seem to spend most of my time here questioning the certainties of other people, on both sides of the divide. As for logical fallacies, there seem to be plenty flying around here, but I don't think I've perpetrated any.
"The mind arises from the brain " is just one logical fallacy and "certainty " of yours, remember.
Check out the rest.Cheers.
 
C

Chris

#18
No, Nassim. I didn't say that. It was in a publisher's blurb about a book that was being discussed. Surely you remember?

What I pointed out to you was simply that the meaning of the statement depends on what the author means by the word "arises". If you think that's a logical fallacy, I'd advise you to lay aside "The Black Swan" and spend some time with a high school logic primer.
 
#19
Nassim, I think you've gone off the rails a bit with Chris. He isn't one who presents logical fallacies and certainty. There are others here who would benefit much more from reading the book - our fearless leader, for one. And it's more about empiricism than logical fallacies (although he does point out the seeming ubiquitousness of the "affirming the consequent" fallacy).

Linda
 
#20
No, Nassim. I didn't say that. It was in a publisher's blurb about a book that was being discussed. Surely you remember?

What I pointed out to you was simply that the meaning of the statement depends on what the author means by the word "arises". If you think that's a logical fallacy, I'd advise you to lay aside "The Black Swan" and spend some time with a high school logic primer.
Chill.
Your emotional response is an argument against you.
In fact :
I forgot to mention the second part of that premise in question :

" The mind arises from the brain, but some aspect of mind survives or continues after death and after the loss of the brain." = a real paradox,as i explained in the thread in question .Cheers.
 
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