Lucid dreaming and OBEs

#3
If you can teach me to have lucid dreams, I'd be happy to participate.

~~ Paul
Excellent!

Once I realized what lucid dreaming is and that is a skill you can learn, like playing the piano (which I do :)), a lot of doors opened up for me. Then the first time I was fully lucid in a dream my mind exploded a little bit. It's an endlessly fascinating experience.

There is no easy by the numbers approach to learning LDing. Like many other skills it will take time, energy, and practice before you experience one (unless you're one of the gifted oneironauts). For some it can take a couple months before they have one, and for others it could take weeks or even days, depending. You should start by reading "Exploring the world of lucid dreaming" by Stephen LaBerge. LaBerge was one of the pioneers in lucid dream research, and wastes no time laying down the basics and a pragmatic approach to learning how to maximize the potential of having one. It's an excellent crash course.

Maybe once we get into it I can share more of my experiences.
 
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#4
Hi. I'm an avid lucid dreamer. When I focus my intention I experience LDs quite frequently, and I've often found it to be an interesting way to test the phenomenology of dream spaces. I've performed several experiments on my own, attempts mostly to identify targets, but I have had no positive results.

I'm wondering if there is anyone else here at the forum or peripheral to the forum (friends or whatever) who might be interested in putting together some type of experiment. I don't know what the nature of the experiment might be, but I'm thinking a good starting point would be testing the veridical nature of LDs or OBEs.
Bishop, Ed Kellogg has an interesting account of a mutual lucid dream he shared with his friend, Harvey Grady:

http://www.asdreams.org/telepathy/kellogg_1997_mutual_lucid_dream_event.htm

His site is worth checking out, and you might try contacting him for advice about setting up an experiment.

http://dreamtalk.hypermart.net/member/files/ed_kellogg.html

Doug
 
#5
#6
Great idea! I've had about a dozen spontaneous LDs. I've never managed to have one on demand, so I might not be able to participate, but I'd love to read about others' adventures.

I've got the very interesting Robert Waggoner book Lucid Dreaming (I think he was a podcast guest). I believe it has a how-to section towards the end, but I haven't yet made it that far.

Pat
 
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#7
Great idea! I've had about a dozen spontaneous LDs. I've never managed to have one on demand, so I might not be able to participate, but I'd love to read about others' adventures.

I've got the very interesting Robert Waggoner book Lucid Dreaming (I think he was a podcast guest). I believe it has a how-to section towards the end, but I haven't yet made it that far.

Pat
Pat, I got Waggoner's book shortly after it came out and had my first lucid dream not long after reading it. I found the book inspirational, and think that had something to do with my experience.

Doug
 
#8
Pat, I got Waggoner's book shortly after it came out and had my first lucid dream not long after reading it. I found the book inspirational, and think that had something to do with my experience.

Doug
Maybe this experiment will kick-start some lucid dreams. :)

Pat
 
#9
Bishop I wish I could help, I've paid close attention to my dreams for several years, read most of the literature on LD but have had only a few brief episodes of lucidity in my dreams.
Hopefully one day my luck will change!
 
#10
Bishop , I've only had a few of these kind of 'dreams' . I always wake up right after one though.

As I am waking there is a bright light above my head, as if there was headboard light on in the bedroom (my eyes still closed). It takes a full minute or so to disperse.

needless to say there is no actual headboard light , or table-lamp. just a main light on roof.
 
#11
I'd be interested in participating. I've tried to fall asleep to some youtube videos that suggest they lead to lucid dreaming but other than some weird and vivid dreams I haven't had an actual lucid dream.
 
#12
Lots of great activity here.

Great idea! I've had about a dozen spontaneous LDs. I've never managed to have one on demand, so I might not be able to participate, but I'd love to read about others' adventures.

I've got the very interesting Robert Waggoner book Lucid Dreaming (I think he was a podcast guest). I believe it has a how-to section towards the end, but I haven't yet made it that far.

Pat
I've never read Waggoner's book, but sometimes simply reading about lucidity will increase the potential of having a lucid dream. Again I would recommend LaBerge's "Exploring the World Of Lucid Dreaming".

Bishop I wish I could help, I've paid close attention to my dreams for several years, read most of the literature on LD but have had only a few brief episodes of lucidity in my dreams.
Hopefully one day my luck will change!
Do you remember your dreams often? If you can remember your dreams and you have an interest in them than you can definitely have lucid dreams. I can't stress this enough; lucid dreaming is not a skill reserved for the lucky or special. Anyone can learn it. Start with LaBerge. :)

Bishop , I've only had a few of these kind of 'dreams' . I always wake up right after one though.

As I am waking there is a bright light above my head, as if there was headboard light on in the bedroom (my eyes still closed). It takes a full minute or so to disperse.

needless to say there is no actual headboard light , or table-lamp. just a main light on roof.
Waking up prematurely from a lucid dream is absolutely typical. There are methods and techniques you can hone to elongate your lucid experience, and once you do that every moment of consciousness within the dream becomes more intriguing. If you are interested enough in your initial "accidental" conscious awareness within the dream to pursue it then you should.

On the light source, I have two initial gut reactions.
1) The light is a false awakening and you are still in the dream. This is common, and it tricks people all the time. I'm a fairly talented lucid dreamer and false awakenings always get me.

2) You are actually waking, but your dream visuals are residual. Do you experience this when waking from all dreams or just lucid ones?

I'd be interested in participating. I've tried to fall asleep to some youtube videos that suggest they lead to lucid dreaming but other than some weird and vivid dreams I haven't had an actual lucid dream.
Those videos don't really work IMHO, but anything that can give a boost to your intention is key. Intention is a main factor in becoming lucid, though I haven't yet figured out why that is. Maybe that can be part of this thread.

There are a lot of factors; disposition, desire, and personal interest are a few. But most of all you must educate yourself in the basics of the practice if you expect results. Most of those youtube videos are basically "Relax your body, imagine your destination, let your astral body go". While they can be effective in giving you a good night's rest, they often suffer from lack of common definition. I'd say start with the crash course (like LaBerge!!!) and go from there. I know, I sound like a broken record hawking his book. But in all of my experience his is the most pragmatic approach to learning lucid dreaming.
 
#13
Waking up prematurely from a lucid dream is absolutely typical. There are methods and techniques you can hone to elongate your lucid experience, and once you do that every moment of consciousness within the dream becomes more intriguing. If you are interested enough in your initial "accidental" conscious awareness within the dream to pursue it then you should.

On the light source, I have two initial gut reactions.
1) The light is a false awakening and you are still in the dream. This is common, and it tricks people all the time. I'm a fairly talented lucid dreamer and false awakenings always get me.

2) You are actually waking, but your dream visuals are residual. Do you experience this when waking from all dreams or just lucid ones?

thanks bishop

It was definitely when actually awakening taht I get the light.Because then I reach for the small voice recorder & capture the event. (I used to use pencil and paper , but its much easier with device, plus I can quickly cover everything.)

This doesn't happen with anything other than the lucid, where the colours are much brighter and I am aware that I am there, and not in the body. I remember asking if I'd passed on one time -never see any people though !- that I can remember about anyway.
 
#14
Those videos don't really work IMHO, but anything that can give a boost to your intention is key. Intention is a main factor in becoming lucid, though I haven't yet figured out why that is. Maybe that can be part of this thread.

There are a lot of factors; disposition, desire, and personal interest are a few. But most of all you must educate yourself in the basics of the practice if you expect results. Most of those youtube videos are basically "Relax your body, imagine your destination, let your astral body go". While they can be effective in giving you a good night's rest, they often suffer from lack of common definition. I'd say start with the crash course (like LaBerge!!!) and go from there. I know, I sound like a broken record hawking his book. But in all of my experience his is the most pragmatic approach to learning lucid dreaming.
Yeah, the one I did last night basically had me go through relaxing each body part (not a bad thing in itself) interspersed with messages such as "I will have a lucid dream tonight". Was nice to relax but didn't produce a lucid dream. That said I tend to also doze off during the recording itself, so not sure if it preps me right.

I'll check out LaBerge, tx!
 
#15
I lucid dream, but I'm having trouble thinking of a useful experiment. Would I be looking at something like the OBE experiments, where a target is placed on a shelf and when I'm in a lucid dream I go looking for it?

Linda
 
#16
Calea zacatechichi also known as the dream herb or the leaf of the gods can induce lucid dreams, it is used by the Chontal indians for divination and oneiromancy. The traditional way is to drink a tea and then smoke some before sleep. I personally prepare a tincture or extract resin for ingestion as it is one of the most bitter and foul tasting teas ever, right up there with cacti juice.

If you are a vivid dreamer it will take you to the next level to lucid dreams. The dreams are amazingly vivid and retaining them is much easier. There are other dream herbs, I have had some success also with mugwort, got some silene undulata growing which I am yet to try but that is a mission physically. Calea has been by far the best in my experience. Not good if you are having bad dreams as you may end up with incredibly vivid nightmares.
 
#17
I lucid dream, but I'm having trouble thinking of a useful experiment. Would I be looking at something like the OBE experiments, where a target is placed on a shelf and when I'm in a lucid dream I go looking for it?

Linda
Hey Linda. I'm glad you joined the conversation, because I know this is something that you may have a natural talent or interest in.

I think some kind of veridical target identification is a good basic setup for an experiment. But I'm also curious about your personal experiences as a lucid dreamer. Perhaps we could see what kind of community forms around the practice, and then devise the right kind of experiment. One may not be dependent on the other, but this is a community of course, and I encourage participation. We may all find some interesting new tests of the phenomenology of lucid dreaming along the way.

I've got a couple basic questions, and I'd ask these of anyone who is adept at lucid dreaming.
1. Are there levels of control, and are you using specific types of techniques?
2. If it comes naturally, can you offer any incites to those new to the practice?
3. Considering that the dreamworld is limited only to your imagination, do you ever find yourself pushing the boundaries in any way that is interesting or challenging?
 
#18
Well, I've suggested a target in my home that people could try to read. There's a picture of my good self in my profile and I can provide a picture of the location where I would put the target (for tuning/aiming purposes if such things work), without disclosing the surrounding location, for obvious reasons. The target should be combinatorial so that a success *(and also a failure) is definitive, not rhetorical and interpretive (imo).
 
#19
Well, I've suggested a target in my home that people could try to read. There's a picture of my good self in my profile and I can provide a picture of the location where I would put the target (for tuning/aiming purposes if such things work), without disclosing the surrounding location, for obvious reasons. The target should be combinatorial so that a success *(and also a failure) is definitive, not rhetorical and interpretive (imo).
I think that's a good start. Perhaps this thread can include a battery of experiments and myriad experiences as we go.

Right away I would recommend that any target not include numbers or letters, which are notoriously difficult to read in lucid dreams. This is true to such a degree that shifting letters and numbers within a dream is utilized as a confirmation that the dreamer is in fact dreaming. But I agree that the target would need to be combinatorial. Would you like to set something up, and we can discuss here how any particular person could report the info?

Also, you wouldn't happen to have a modern sunken living room area and a fireplace, would you? :)
 
#20
I've got a couple basic questions, and I'd ask these of anyone who is adept at lucid dreaming.
1. Are there levels of control, and are you using specific types of techniques?
3. Considering that the dreamworld is limited only to your imagination, do you ever find yourself pushing the boundaries in any way that is interesting or challenging?
Not adept, but more than 200 LDs. Best techniques for me are Wake Back to Bed, MILD, dream journaling to identify recurrent dreamsigns. I found that Galantimine helped with lengthening period of lucidity and to a lesser extent increasing probability of acheiving lucidity.

There are degrees of lucidity, but I have not yet established a consistent approach for increasing the degree of lucidity.

I found some writings by Paul Tholey that have some challenging ideas to experiment with - duplicating your dream body and sharing conscious across both. Or destruction of the dream body to establish consious point.

Often alot of the experience is just enjoying the new environment and certain dream experiences such as flying.

My memory is significantly impaired in lucid dreams, and I will often not recall "dream tasks/exercises".
 
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