Lucid Dreaming and The Scientific Method

#41
Actually had my first full scale lucid dream the other night.
-----------

Pretty incredible experience overall! I very much want to get back there! Tried the last two nights to induce but no luck. It's at least renewed my interest in experimenting with different induction techniques.
What you can try, that are completely harmless, is to use Melatonin supplements.

What is Melatonin?
Melatonin is a hormone found naturally in the body. Melatonin used as medicine is usually made synthetically in a laboratory. It is most commonly available in pill form, but melatonin is also available in forms that can be placed in the cheek or under the tongue. This allows the melatonin to be absorbed directly into the body.

People use melatonin to adjust the body’s internal clock. It is used for jet lag, for adjusting sleep-wake cycles in people whose daily work schedule changes (shift-work disorder), and for helping blind people establish a day and night cycle.
The thing with Melatonin is that it gives you vivid and "sustained" dreams, which makes it easier to "take control" of. You will also remember your dreams better when you wake up, and if you work on it, it will create lucid dreams more often. Melatonin are sold over-the-counter in most countries, and is, as it said above, a natural grown hormone and not a drug.

Use that, with some Hemi-sync-tapes on low volume in your earphones while you go to sleep, and I can almost guarantee you will have more lucid dreams than ever before. :)
 
#42
Cool! That sounds like a fun dream.

What sort of inductions had you been trying?

~~ Paul
Mostly youtube videos - search "lucid dream induction". Those two limited successes I wrote about earlier came from those. The ones with binaural beats seem to affect me in interesting ways even if they don't lead to lucidity. They have some relaxation elements or have you repeat to yourself statements like "Tonight I will have a lucid dream. Tonight I will remember my dreams."

I've tried some of the hemi-sync stuff but not noticed anything effective from them. I haven't been doing it on a regular basis though, mostly sporadic (I go through phases where I'll do it every night for a week, then forget about it for a few weeks. I hadn't done a lucid dream induction for a week or so prior to having the big one. I pretty commonly have dreams related to video games I've been playing, but usually they are totally immersive. I got lucky that this video game has a really non-immersive part (frankly as much as I love that theme song it drives me nuts during the game cause it comes on and off all the time every time you fly!) so when it leaked its way into my dream it played the same offputting role and popped the immersion out letting me become lucid.

So unfortunately I don't have much helpful tips out of this experience, but will report back if I hit on something that works.
 
#43
What you can try, that are completely harmless, is to use Melatonin supplements.

What is Melatonin?
Melatonin is a hormone found naturally in the body. Melatonin used as medicine is usually made synthetically in a laboratory. It is most commonly available in pill form, but melatonin is also available in forms that can be placed in the cheek or under the tongue. This allows the melatonin to be absorbed directly into the body.

People use melatonin to adjust the body’s internal clock. It is used for jet lag, for adjusting sleep-wake cycles in people whose daily work schedule changes (shift-work disorder), and for helping blind people establish a day and night cycle.
The thing with Melatonin is that it gives you vivid and "sustained" dreams, which makes it easier to "take control" of. You will also remember your dreams better when you wake up, and if you work on it, it will create lucid dreams more often. Melatonin are sold over-the-counter in most countries, and is, as it said above, a natural grown hormone and not a drug.

Use that, with some Hemi-sync-tapes on low volume in your earphones while you go to sleep, and I can almost guarantee you will have more lucid dreams than ever before. :)
I might try that.

Interesting about the low volume part. While I haven't had them cranked up I've certainly been listening to the recordings on regular volume. When its too low I find myself straining to hear. But maybe that's the trick. I'll try it tonight (not the melatonin, I'll have to pick that up at some point.)
 
#44
Calea zacatechichi, the dream herb or leaf of god has been used by the Chontal people of Oaxaca for centuries in a form of dream divination, oneiromancy.

It helps recall, gives great vividness and clarity, and promotes lucid dreaming.

Works for me. There are other dream herbs, silene capensis (African dream herb), mugwort etc.. but I have only had succes with calea.
If you are already a vivid dreamer, it can take you to the next level.
 
#45
I meant to ask you about this. Can you elaborate on some of these results that looked promising?
I seem to have missed this the first time around.

If you recall, one of the things I was working on was identifying playing cards that I had hidden in a specific location. I wasn't successful with going to the specific location and looking at which card was hidden, within a lucid dream. But what I did notice was that playing cards were making appearances in other contexts, in my lucid dreams.

Linda
 
#46
Actually had my first full scale lucid dream the other night. Wish I could say that it happened on a night where I tried an induction, but I didn't.

Started as a normal type of adventure dream. Pretty good one, lots of action. At one point I was chasing these bad guys and started flying. This seemed completely normal in my dream mode but then all of the sudden the superman theme music started playing. That's what triggered it.

I've been playing a lot of Lego Batman with my youngest and that's the music that plays when you make superman fly in the game. So that's what didn't fit. I found it odd and suddenly said to myself, hey, I'm dreaming!

Suddenly I had control. Not full control down to the last detail but still lots. I could change the room,
room, call up different people. Send away people. I would do it by thinking "ok, let's try x!" And it would happen. Again, I was not in control of the minute details. More like thinking what I wanted generally and being presented with an option, then being able to change the option if it wasn't what I wanted or I wanted to try something new.

At the end I started to wake up and hovered in a between state for a bit where I was half awake, in my bed but still had some control over things. I tried to hold onto it but it got away and I woke up.

Pretty incredible experience overall! I very much want to get back there! Tried the last two nights to induce but no luck. It's at least renewed my interest in experimenting with different induction techniques.
Great!

From what I tell, after the first time, it should start getting easier.

Linda
 
#47
Actually had my first full scale lucid dream the other night. Wish I could say that it happened on a night where I tried an induction, but I didn't.

Started as a normal type of adventure dream. Pretty good one, lots of action. At one point I was chasing these bad guys and started flying. This seemed completely normal in my dream mode but then all of the sudden the superman theme music started playing. That's what triggered it.

I've been playing a lot of Lego Batman with my youngest and that's the music that plays when you make superman fly in the game. So that's what didn't fit. I found it odd and suddenly said to myself, hey, I'm dreaming!

Suddenly I had control. Not full control down to the last detail but still lots. I could change the room,
room, call up different people. Send away people. I would do it by thinking "ok, let's try x!" And it would happen. Again, I was not in control of the minute details. More like thinking what I wanted generally and being presented with an option, then being able to change the option if it wasn't what I wanted or I wanted to try something new.

At the end I started to wake up and hovered in a between state for a bit where I was half awake, in my bed but still had some control over things. I tried to hold onto it but it got away and I woke up.

Pretty incredible experience overall! I very much want to get back there! Tried the last two nights to induce but no luck. It's at least renewed my interest in experimenting with different induction techniques.
Congratulations, Arouet, I hope you have many more. I don't know if your post triggered it, but this morning I dreamed that I had a lucid dream. I was trying to make my way to the balcony of a movie theater. This involved some risky maneuvers, switching between ladders and staircases. At a certain point, metal bands wrapped around me and I was propelled upwards, as in an elevator. I thought something like "This is too weird, I must be dreaming" and I "woke up". I told my wife about the dream, then I woke up for real (at least I think I'm awake now ;)).

Pat
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#48
Congratulations, Arouet, I hope you have many more. I don't know if your post triggered it, but this morning I dreamed that I had a lucid dream. I was trying to make my way to the balcony of a movie theater. This involved some risky maneuvers, switching between ladders and staircases. At a certain point, metal bands wrapped around me and I was propelled upwards, as in an elevator. I thought something like "This is too weird, I must be dreaming" and I "woke up". I told my wife about the dream, then I woke up for real (at least I think I'm awake now ;)).
Not to be skeptical or anything, but I wonder if you guys are just dreaming that you're lucid dreaming, but not actually dreaming lucidly. :eek:

~~ Paul
 
#49
Not to be skeptical or anything, but I wonder if you guys are just dreaming that you're lucid dreaming, but not actually dreaming lucidly. :eek:

~~ Paul
And I wonder if you were dreaming when you typed that comment and I'm just dreaming reading said comment.

"So here it is, another chance
Wide awake you face the day
Your dream is over... or has it just begun?"
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#50
And I wonder if you were dreaming when you typed that comment and I'm just dreaming reading said comment.
You never know.

The night we climbed above the ruins
The gypsies sang those ancient spanish blues
I saw a man awake but still dreaming
I saw myself in love with you
I walk around I think about it
And all the things that we went through
And the more I think about it
It wasn't you
. . . that I lost
Was it the dream or just the notion
Well I lost it when I lost you
---Boz Scaggs
 
#51
Not to be skeptical or anything, but I wonder if you guys are just dreaming that you're lucid dreaming, but not actually dreaming lucidly. :eek:

~~ Paul
Well, I think by definition a lucid dream is one in which one realises that one is dreaming, so in that sense dreaming that one is lucid is being lucid.

But I think you're probably getting more at the issue of control -did I really have it or simply think that I had it.

What I can say is this: I had some idea of what I wanted to do when I achieved lucidity (prior to having the dream) and basically carried out that basic idea.

I was fully aware that I was dreaming and this is the only time that I can recall ever being able to consciously direct how a dream was going to go. I didn't make just one change but many. That is, I said (or thought "let's try X" probably a dozen or so different times, with each time a change happening instantly.

I didn't have absolute control, but still a large extent. For example, someone popped in that I didn't intend and I said go away and he did.

I have ideas for other things I might want to try if I achieve lucidity again.

In all those ways it was different than any other dream experience I can recall.
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#52
Well, I think by definition a lucid dream is one in which one realises that one is dreaming, so in that sense dreaming that one is lucid is being lucid.

But I think you're probably getting more at the issue of control -did I really have it or simply think that I had it.

What I can say is this: I had some idea of what I wanted to do when I achieved lucidity (prior to having the dream) and basically carried out that basic idea.
I'm quite sure you had a lucid dream. It was incumbent upon me, however, to make a skeptical comment about it. ;)

~~ Paul
 
#53
Not to be skeptical or anything, but I wonder if you guys are just dreaming that you're lucid dreaming, but not actually dreaming lucidly. :eek:

~~ Paul
You know what; this is a pretty to-the-core-response, and argument, from someone who never had a profound experience in the matter of topic - be it something paranormal of some sort, or anything else of extraordinary profound magnitude.

I think you wrote it with tongue-in-cheek. But it is almost like when some asshole tells the guy, who have seen an UFO really up close; `Wasn't it just swamp gas and Venus you saw.....really?´
 
#54
Well, I think by definition a lucid dream is one in which one realises that one is dreaming, so in that sense dreaming that one is lucid is being lucid.

But I think you're probably getting more at the issue of control -did I really have it or simply think that I had it.

What I can say is this: I had some idea of what I wanted to do when I achieved lucidity (prior to having the dream) and basically carried out that basic idea.

I was fully aware that I was dreaming and this is the only time that I can recall ever being able to consciously direct how a dream was going to go. I didn't make just one change but many. That is, I said (or thought "let's try X" probably a dozen or so different times, with each time a change happening instantly.

I didn't have absolute control, but still a large extent. For example, someone popped in that I didn't intend and I said go away and he did.

I have ideas for other things I might want to try if I achieve lucidity again.

In all those ways it was different than any other dream experience I can recall.
Read this thread and some of the tips there. http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/checklist-4-lucid-dreaming.2057/

The trick with the numbers is a pretty good one to break the spell, when you are about to become aware in your dream. If you have this hammered into your mind, so to speak, that you know to always look for some numbers of some sort when you are about to become aware, it will strengthen your ability to have a more controllable lucid dream.
 
#55
You know what; this is a pretty to-the-core-response, and argument, from someone who never had a profound experience in the matter of topic - be it something paranormal of some sort, or anything else of extraordinary profound magnitude.

I think you wrote it with tongue-in-cheek. But it is almost like when some asshole tells the guy, who have seen an UFO really up close; `Wasn't it just swamp gas and Venus you saw.....really?´
I actually took it as less tongue and cheek than I think it was, but only because it had already occurred to me to ask myself how I would really tell the difference.

That's why I had decided in advance what I would try and do when I had one. For my next few ones I'm going to try and have a different rough plan in advance. It's not rock solid, but if I can regularly decide to follow a pre-decided plan that would lean me towards my having actual decision making during the dream. If I'm not able to follow through with my pre-plan though but still have the feeling of choice that could point to it only seeming to be choices, as per other dreams.

This isn't meant to be rigourous, just informal little tests on my part. If I manage to get the point where I can regularly have them I can perhaps try and implement something more rigourous.
 
#56
Read this thread and some of the tips there. http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/checklist-4-lucid-dreaming.2057/

The trick with the numbers is a pretty good one to break the spell, when you are about to become aware in your dream. If you have this hammered into your mind, so to speak, that you know to always look for some numbers of some sort when you are about to become aware, it will strengthen your ability to have a more controllable lucid dream.
Thanks, I've read that before and have tried to keep that in mind when I've attempted to induce. (ie: reminding myself to look out for that). I have a vague memory recently of having noticed something off like that, but the dream didn't quite bounce to lucidity. But maybe it was a sign of getting closer to achieving it.
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#57
You know what; this is a pretty to-the-core-response, and argument, from someone who never had a profound experience in the matter of topic - be it something paranormal of some sort, or anything else of extraordinary profound magnitude.
You've really gotta take such comments in the manner intended. I was just being funny. You'll notice that I posted it response to wpb's post with the smiley at the end.

I think you wrote it with tongue-in-cheek. But it is almost like when some asshole tells the guy, who have seen an UFO really up close; `Wasn't it just swamp gas and Venus you saw.....really?´
Okay, I give. I promise not to crack a joke like this again.

~~ Paul
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#58
That's why I had decided in advance what I would try and do when I had one. For my next few ones I'm going to try and have a different rough plan in advance. It's not rock solid, but if I can regularly decide to follow a pre-decided plan that would lean me towards my having actual decision making during the dream. If I'm not able to follow through with my pre-plan though but still have the feeling of choice that could point to it only seeming to be choices, as per other dreams.
On the other hand, if your response is predetermined, then perhaps it's just happening automatically.

Hmm. You need to do something during the dream that we believe you could only do if quasi-conscious. What could you include in your plan that fits that requirement?

~~ Paul
 
#59
On the other hand, if your response is predetermined, then perhaps it's just happening automatically.

Hmm. You need to do something during the dream that we believe you could only do if quasi-conscious. What could you include in your plan that fits that requirement?

~~ Paul
If you're actually awake during a dream, you really do know it. One of the ways you can tell is that you remember it that way. This alone makes it different from dreaming.
 
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