Mod+ Magic Discussion Thread

I know Sci has probably included some of these ideas in his Occult Resources thread, but I though maybe a discussion thread on magic might prove interesting.

I'm on Gordon White's 3rd book "Pieces of Eight." And I've been circling back and listening to his most recent podcasts.

I'm realizing hearing him talk that I've likely been a strong animist my whole life without really having a name to put on it.

For instance I'm nearly completely in line with this sentiment from here: (

"I am an outright animist. I experience pretty everything as alive. I talk to everything. I talk to my dogs, my cat, the snow, the trees, the house, my silver, my talismans, my drill press, the coffee. Mainly I talk to the spirits. This isn’t just idle blather. I talk about what I am trying to do, what I hope to do, and ask for assistance. Often I receive it."
I realize now I was born this way, retrofitted as it were, with a world view that somehow I never knew had a name for 50 years of living.

I know Alex has talked up Gordon and his books on the podcast. But he has never really claimed to be "practicing" any kind of magic.

I'm wondering if any other members here really practice much magic. Or if many here have read Gordon's books and thought, hmm. Might give that a try.
I don't know if I can say that I practice magic as I have yet to achieve what I personally would define as "magic." Example, telekinesis. Something direct, on demand, and practical. That being said I have achieved the ability to poltergeist which is the ability to remote view plus some ability to physically interact with the environment you are viewing. I discovered it around the end of 2010 when I was theorising about the difference between the realm spirits seem to live on and the physical realm. I had heard a lot of people claim that the physical realm was "denser." Seemingly meaning that the energy itself was somehow packed tighter or that the frequencies were higher or something. So I theorised that if that was indeed the case then I should be able to compress energy in and around my spirit body during a projection with energy I absorbed from the environment and thus make it more like that environment. And it worked. Compress the energy enough and you phase into the physical plane and can observe it. Compress it even more and your energy gains enough inertia that it will resist kinetic motion thus allowing you to physically interact with objects. Based on the method I use for energy compression my guess is the math works like this:

A is inversely related to B which is inversely related to C which is inversely related to A

Therefore you get the following paradox:

A moves up, B moves down, C moves up, Which would mean that A moves down. but A can't move down because it moved up but it can't move up if it moved down. Mathematical inertia. The system itself remains internally stable and inert at all times, it can only be affected by outside stimulus. If that isn't the definition of inertia I don't know what is. From this I created what I call the "Inertial Density Hypothesis" which states that the reason all physics appears to be stable and universal may be because all matter and energy share a near-identical inertial density. It may be the case that the reason things like Bose-Einstein condensates act so weird is because you've removed so much energy from their systems that you've begun to change their inertial density. Which if the hypothesis is correct, would cause a sort of "de-sync" with the laws of physics which would cause very strange behaviour like you see in Bose-Einstein condensates. I don't really have any ability to properly test the hypothesis right now but maybe some day in the future I will.

Poltergeisting is currently the foundation I'm using to build direct telekinesis and similar. Because logically, if I can flick a lightswitch from a hundred kilometres away via astral projection then surely I should be able to flick the same light switch from five meters away utilising the same method. I should be able to make a solid ball of energy in my hands just by compressing it the same way I compressed my energy during projection to pull myself down here. effectively making a poltergeist in my hands. However this does not appear to be the case at the moment almost certainly due to my mindset blocking me from letting the energy flow because I'm scared of success. I've managed to burn myself on the chest though, so that's a start.

Fundamentally though all confirmed successes seem to function on one basic mindset. Seeing my own will as being more important than the reality I see in front of me. The likely reason why negative emotions seem to be more associated with poltergeists and general paranormal phenomenon is because when you're feeling angry and sad and whatnot you're rejecting reality's perceived authority over you and what you can do. When you're feeling happy you're okay with the way things are. Many, many of my confirmed shared dreams, shared projections and poltergeists have happened when I either,

A; was not trying to think about reality at all, but merely imagining things for fun, eventually getting sucked into something that later turned out to be real.

B: didn't care anymore, got really, really frustrated, and imagined something working/happening without caring about whether or not it would. I.e. Just doing it.

Both cases share the same base rule, that I wasn't thinking about my own perception of the laws of physics and how they might limit me. I'm currently working on designing a method to activate such a mindset at will so that I can bypass my own fears and other mental blocks but it's not easy.

I have had marked success with changing my mindset for inducing poltergeists and shared dreams but it's far from perfect. Although I can pretty reliably focus and know that I'm probably going to induce a real one I have very little control over when it's going to happen at the moment. A phenomenon I call “Time dialation” which will need a lot more definition and discussion later. Thus my current skill at poltergeisting and inducing shared dreams isn't reliable enough for me to use as proof of anything right now. I have also had zero success with direct telekinesis despite knowing for a fact that it is possible and that I can do it. It seems that the more obvious the proof is about to be the more my mind resists doing it. Leading to a temporal de-sync with poltergeists and shared dreams and outright failures for direct telekinesis. For the moment all I can do is keep training and hope that I slowly desensitise myself enough to the reality of it for one to “accidentally” happen in front of me one day.

This is not to say that it is as simple as believing your imagination is real and then it becomes so. You are still constrained by the laws of physics. I like to think of it like a programming language. You must write in the proper form and syntax that the compiler understands, if you don't nothing will work and it's too bad so sad. But if you do you can theoretically program whatever you want, including a new compiler. Thus making magic like a form of hacking. Getting the same results in a different way. Example, wanna move that heavy chair across the room? All you need is enough kinetic energy. The chair's not going to care whether that energy came from you shoving it by hand or you sending it through a telekinetic thread. Joules are Joules.

But at it's baseline much like literally every other skill in the world if you don't believe you can do it then it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Which is not the same as “It only works if you believe in it.”
I don't know if I can say that I practice magic as I have yet to achieve what I personally would define as "magic." Example, telekinesis.
I really like it when people who can actually make this stuff work, are also happy to theorise about it - we really need more of that.

Two immediate comments:

Mostly I read that "higher frequency" spirits are more spiritual and less tied to material, but you seem to be implying the reverse. Since I always presume that the word 'frequency' is not meant to be taken in the literal physical sense, perhaps you have just chosen an unfortunate definition.

When you talk about a solid ball of energy in your hands, is this something you would do outside the body? Can you give more details? Do you think that the word 'energy' as used in this context, is related to the usual physical meaning (could it be measured in Joules, for example), or should it not be understood like that?

I really like it when people who can actually make this stuff work, are also happy to theorise about it - we really need more of that.
Can't really make it work unless I understand what it is I'm actually doing and trying to do. I'd say the same for anyone else.

Mostly I read that "higher frequency" spirits are more spiritual and less tied to material, but you seem to be implying the reverse. Since I always presume that the word 'frequency' is not meant to be taken in the literal physical sense, perhaps you have just chosen an unfortunate definition.
The physics definition is the only one that matters, the rest is just emotional religious nonsense until proven otherwise. If someone were to come to me claiming that the stuff you read is how this stuff works I'd be pressing them on their definitions. Like, what is “spiritual” and how can someone be more or less it? How does being more or less spiritual affect things? What does “material;” mean and what do they mean by being “tied” to it? What does that affect and how? If they can't give me at least some kind of logical justification describing the objective nature of the mechanical/mathematical relationships between these things then it's just them being religious.

That being said I don't actually know if the potential frequency of energy is actually higher or lower between planes, I don't have the equipment to test that and at the moment I'm no exactly sure how I would anyways. I don't even know if frequencies are even involved. However since I needed to compress my energy, I.E. pack more of it into the same volume, in order to achieve remote viewing and then physical interaction it lines up more with the idea that this plane's energy has a higher relative frequency. Higher frequency photons have more energy in the same volume after all, well, more or less. Until I have a way of properly testing this this is how I'm going to be explaining it for simplicity's sake.

When you talk about a solid ball of energy in your hands, is this something you would do outside the body? Can you give more details? Do you think that the word 'energy' as used in this context, is related to the usual physical meaning (could it be measured in Joules, for example), or should it not be understood like that?
Yeah you'd do it outside of the body, as if you were holding a ball in your hand. Unless you're asking if I'd need to use classical projection to do it in which case I'd say no even though it would use the same mechanisms. I wouldn't have to lay down and meditate for it for example. I struggle with the more details part because I don't really know how to give people a step by step of how to do the really fundamental stuff like an energy ball. Which sucks because I want to teach it. The best I can describe is that if you know how to blow a bubble with bubble gum it feels kinda like that except from your hand.

I do know that at the very least it helps a lot to try visualising what you're trying to do. Not just with your eyes but with all your senses. Trying to fool them into thinking it's already happening. I know that method works for controlling circulation which is how I typically start people off. This works best if you're someone who has cold hands or feet. For this method go lay down and get yourself really relaxed. Feel your heartbeat and feel the pressure of where your blood is going in the body. See if you can feel the bloodflow in a single cold toe or finger tip. If you can't then imagine that you can. Try to make it feel like how the actual bloodflow feeling feels in the rest of your body as if it was a natural continuation. Sync your imagined pulse to the real one. Try to in fact let the real pulse cause the imagined one if that makes any sense. After a minute or so or even instantly in some cases you should start to feel like your digit is melting from the inside or something like that. Some kind of obvious physical sensation. Let it run for a good minute or two and then check your digit. Is it actually warmer? If so congrats you've just demonstrated to yourself that you can control your own circulation. The method for learning to control energy is identical. Feel it, imagine it, sync it, repeat. That's how you start. After some experience it stops being so clunky and starts to feel more like controlling any other muscle in your body.

“But Mediochre, how can I do that when I can't even feel energy in the first place?”

Try to feel the EMF coming off of any standard electronic device as a starting point. I prefer cell phones because they seem to put out a ridiculous amount of energy from something so relatively small. Try to predict things about what the device is doing based only on feeling and intuition. A good one with cell phones is put it in silent mode and put it under blankets or something and then see if you can predict when someone is calling or texting you from feeling alone. Keep doing these tests until your feelings reliably correlate to the thing you are trying to sense for. To the point where your feelings legitimately become a form of evidence that the other thing is occurring. This is not the new age hippy version of sensing energy, you must be demonstrably accurate. If you're not accurate, then you're not accurate, deal with it. Keep training until you are.

“Aww man that sounds like a lot of work, can't I just take drugs for this? I feel lots of things when I take drugs man.”

No. Put the bong down, stop being a lazy hippy, and get to work.

Sufficed to say yes it must be thought of in terms of joules because if it isn't then it's just religious nonsense that has no basis in reality. If you want something to work in reality it needs to follow the same rules. One thing I've noticed is that energy never seems to go through a state change, it remains a fluid all the time. All that seems to happen is that it gets thicker and thicker the more of it you pack into one area giving it the illusion of having turned from gas to liquid to solid. But technically it's still the same fluid it was when you started. It seems to respond pretty directly to thoughts and emotions. Or at least “your” energy does. The energy that carries your energy signature, kinda like a finger print or maybe pheromones. You can recognise people just from their energy signature the same way you can recognise their face. At least if you know how to sense energy at a decent enough resolution to tell the difference between one thing and another. You can draw in more energy from the environment and process it into your own energy to replenish anything you've used. This process may or may not happen in the body, I don't really know.

I have a lot I'd need to unpack just from the initial stuff I said. Lots of things that need defining and further explanation. I will get to that later. Hopefully this stuff can get some people started.
Synchronicity... I've just watched this :D

Blimey, I didn't know anything about Grant Morrison's personal life, although I loved what he, Bollard and a few others created in 2000AD. Still have a vague memory of going to the local newsagents on Saturday morning and being disappointed because 'Victor' hadn't arrived, (I'd only be 7 or 8) but the first issue of some new comic called 2000AD was on the shelf, the pictures looked weird, but I bought it in place of Victor... I was hooked after that... it was bursting full of fresh ideas.

Makes you wonder where his ideas came from... the kids reading his stories perhaps?

A lot of interesting stuff on that recording you posted, thanks.
An interesting interview with Alan Moore:
Given the sheer number of people from all fields that would seem to have a magical agenda, it’s even more strange that magic is generally held in such contempt by any serious thinkers.
Magic has given me an understanding of my own creative processes that I did not have before. It has given me new ways of accessing my creative processes. All of the performances, including the Blake one, were germinated with magical rituals.
Obviously if you’re gonna be exposed to the world of magic, you’re gonna have to have taken a step past the normal perimeters of the rational world. The very nature of magic is connected to the irrational. You’re gonna have to step out of the realm of conventional sanity at the very least.
Occult studied are very interesting, I think op is talking about sigils/rituals you can assign for yourself for your intention slash purpose. Im in class 2 heading on 3 on my occult studies so I could be off